The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll

How's your immunity looking? Had covid - vote twice - vax status and then again for infection status

  • Vaxxed but no booster

  • Boostered

  • Still waiting in queue for first vaccine dose

  • Won't get vaxxed (unless I have to for travel/work etc)

  • Past infection with covid + I've been vaccinated

  • Past infection with covid - I've not been vaccinated

Results are only viewable after voting.
Dancfc said:
Apparently the one's who get the worst side effects first time are the one's who have already caught the thing.

I'm somewhat surprised I (appear like I) haven't had it given I was caught in Milan when it kicked off there.
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I thought this purely because there's an immune response which means your body already knows what this is and is reacting to it. Whereas most who haven't had it get it on their second jab because their body recognises it from Jab 1 and you now get side effects.

Anyone know if that's actually true though? It sounds logical enough but I'm just guessing.

I had a few minor side effects but they went quickly. Gf had hers yesterday and has had zero side effects apart from a sore arm.
 
Santos J said:
Me & my mrs have both had it, me even with long covid effects for months after and were both still fine, she got the achy arm but that's about it. Suppose it just varies person to person but still would've been nice to feel like something was at least working. :lol:
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After the jabs - a survey of 627,383 people reporting their reactions/symptoms after their covid jabs. The most common side-effect was some pain or tenderness in the injected arm - more than half the recipients experienced that. The next most common was headache/fatigue - around a quarter of the group experienced that, typically mild and lasting a day or so.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56901356

Also, from the clinical trials, it looks like there's no direct correlation between the quality/quantity of antibody response and a person's reaction to the jabs. So, no, you don't have to feel something for it to be working :D
 
I had Novavax in a clinical trial back in November in the UK. They've still not proven their mass production abilities (quality/consistency) though so no regulatory approvals yet. Which is a shame as they've got contracts for billions of doses as part of the world-wide vaccine rollout, including large quantities committed to Covax. They may yet come in handy in the UK as well, but the delays mean it's looking like they'll only be used as part of the booster program.

Novavax reported their US/Mexico clinical trials data this week. Similar results (unsurprisingly) to the ones they got in their UK trial. 90% or thereabouts efficacy against any symptomatic disease, and in the trial context 100% protection from moderate/severe disease. Full report not out yet, but key details at:
https://novavax.reportablenews.com/...nd-severe-disease-in-prevent-19-phase-3-trial

Nice graphics on adverse reactions and side-effects, and some interesting splits between the vaccine and placebo group.



 
Solius said:
I thought this purely because there's an immune response which means your body already knows what this is and is reacting to it. Whereas most who haven't had it get it on their second jab because their body recognises it from Jab 1 and you now get side effects.

Anyone know if that's actually true though? It sounds logical enough but I'm just guessing.

I had a few minor side effects but they went quickly. Gf had hers yesterday and has had zero side effects apart from a sore arm.
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It’s logical but doesn’t really hold up when you take individual variability into account. There are big differences between individuals in terms of how many side effects they get after being vaccinated. If we assume you previously caught covid the side effects you experienced might have been more severe than they would have been otherwise. But they could still be less severe than someone who never had covid but is particularly sensitive to these sort of side effects. So we’ve no way of knowing what’s the main reason behind any one person having a bad reaction.

Plus, as we can see from the Novavax data shared by @jojojo the trial subjects who were injected with placebo also experienced side effects. So there are obviously psychological factors at play here as well. Which muddies the water even more.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It’s logical but doesn’t really hold up when you take individual variability into account. There are big differences between individuals in terms of how many side effects they get after being vaccinated. If we assume you previously caught covid the side effects you experienced might have been more severe than they would have been otherwise. But they could still be less severe than someone who never had covid but is particularly sensitive to these sort of side effects. So we’ve no way of knowing what’s the main reason behind any one person having a bad reaction.

Plus, as we can see from the Novavax data shared by @jojojo the trial subjects who were injected with placebo also experienced side effects. So there are obviously psychological factors at play here as well. Which muddies the water even more.
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Interesting, thanks!
 
Solius said:
Interesting, thanks!
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I got confirmed covid last May / June and got pretty much no side effects from the 1st AZ vaccine but suffered from nausea and bad headaches on the 2nd one

There is probably some science behind getting worse side effects if you've already had it, but it definitely doesn't always apply. There is also a possibility that after a year my body had lost the ability to recognise it so didn't respond I guess.
 
Got my jab and then was asked to wait in a hall with other vaccinated people ( 15mins).
One individual infront of me unfortunately got dizzy and collapsed. :nervous:
 
jojojo said:
I had Novavax in a clinical trial back in November in the UK. They've still not proven their mass production abilities (quality/consistency) though so no regulatory approvals yet. Which is a shame as they've got contracts for billions of doses as part of the world-wide vaccine rollout, including large quantities committed to Covax. They may yet come in handy in the UK as well, but the delays mean it's looking like they'll only be used as part of the booster program.

Novavax reported their US/Mexico clinical trials data this week. Similar results (unsurprisingly) to the ones they got in their UK trial. 90% or thereabouts efficacy against any symptomatic disease, and in the trial context 100% protection from moderate/severe disease. Full report not out yet, but key details at:
https://novavax.reportablenews.com/...nd-severe-disease-in-prevent-19-phase-3-trial

Nice graphics on adverse reactions and side-effects, and some interesting splits between the vaccine and placebo group.



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That's great news
Shame about the production problems, sounds like a decent vaccine from the storage requirements to the efficacy against variants and clinical disease. Hopefully none of the blood disorders that has plagued AZ in the young too.
 
There’s some suggestion that the way Novavax is formulated would make it particular good for a booster shot, haven’t looked into why that is though…

By the time Novavax gets the green light from the U.S. government, it may be too late to contribute to the country’s first wave of vaccinations. But many vaccine experts expect that, with waning immunity and emerging variants, the country will need booster shots at some point. And the protein-based technology used in the Novavax vaccine may do a particularly good job at amplifying protection, even if people have previously been vaccinated with a different formulation.

“They may be really the right ones for boosters,” said Dr. Luciana Borio, who was the acting chief scientist at the F.D.A. from 2015 to 2017.
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FrankDrebin said:
Got my jab and then was asked to wait in a hall with other vaccinated people ( 15mins).
One individual infront of me unfortunately got dizzy and collapsed. :nervous:
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:lol: There was a fair bit of that here. At one location, they stopped using the J&J vaccine for a couple days to determine what was going on before realizing it was just anxiety. Lots of people psych themselves out about the shot and then react poorly.
 
FrankDrebin said:
Got my jab and then was asked to wait in a hall with other vaccinated people ( 15mins).
One individual infront of me unfortunately got dizzy and collapsed. :nervous:
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I was waiting for this to happen on Sunday when I went to get mine. It was almost 30 degrees and we had to wait in a marquee with little ventilation. I feel like I didn’t get the full experience now.
 
Ouch. Another of the vaccines that everyone was hoping would be a major part of the "vaccinate the world" program (as a fridge stable mRNA vaccine) hits a problem. The first release of clinical trials data suggests an efficacy of 47%. It was up against a lot of the newer variants so it's not strictly comparable to the initial trials of the other mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna - but they will have an uphill task ahead of them.

 
jojojo said:
Ouch. Another of the vaccines that everyone was hoping would be a major part of the "vaccinate the world" program (as a fridge stable mRNA vaccine) hits a problem. The first release of clinical trials data suggests an efficacy of 47%. It was up against a lot of the newer variants so it's not strictly comparable to the initial trials of the other mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna - but they will have an uphill task ahead of them.

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Pfizer can be in a fridge for a month.
 
jojojo said:
After the jabs - a survey of 627,383 people reporting their reactions/symptoms after their covid jabs. The most common side-effect was some pain or tenderness in the injected arm - more than half the recipients experienced that. The next most common was headache/fatigue - around a quarter of the group experienced that, typically mild and lasting a day or so.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56901356

Also, from the clinical trials, it looks like there's no direct correlation between the quality/quantity of antibody response and a person's reaction to the jabs. So, no, you don't have to feel something for it to be working :D
Click to expand...


https://assets.publishing.service.g...h_Vaccine_Analysis_Print_-_DLP_02.06.2021.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.g...a_Vaccine_Analysis_Print_-_DLP_02.06.2021.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.g...a_Vaccine_Analysis_Print_-_DLP_02.06.2021.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.g...specified_analysis_print_-_DLP_02.06.2021.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.g...accine_-_summary_of_Yellow_Card_reporting.pdf


The reason I will not be taking the vaccine is because the long term side effects are completely unknown in addition to these reports.
 
 
ManchesterYoda said:
https://assets.publishing.service.g...h_Vaccine_Analysis_Print_-_DLP_02.06.2021.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.g...a_Vaccine_Analysis_Print_-_DLP_02.06.2021.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.g...a_Vaccine_Analysis_Print_-_DLP_02.06.2021.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.g...specified_analysis_print_-_DLP_02.06.2021.pdf

https://assets.publishing.service.g...accine_-_summary_of_Yellow_Card_reporting.pdf


The reason I will not be taking the vaccine is because the long term side effects are completely unknown in addition to these reports.
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c7jpoYg.gif
 
jojojo said:
Ouch. Another of the vaccines that everyone was hoping would be a major part of the "vaccinate the world" program (as a fridge stable mRNA vaccine) hits a problem. The first release of clinical trials data suggests an efficacy of 47%. It was up against a lot of the newer variants so it's not strictly comparable to the initial trials of the other mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna - but they will have an uphill task ahead of them.

Click to expand...


Bugger.

I hope these results aren’t a red flag about this lambda variant in Peru (21% of cases).
 
ManchesterYoda said:
The reason I will not be taking the vaccine is because the long term side effects are completely unknown in addition to these reports.
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Long term side effects when it comes to vaccines is a misnomer as they are not a drug so don't do things like bioaccumulate. Side effects with vaccines (as with the AZ clotting) tend to occur very soon after the vaccine is administered. The other important thing to note is that such side effects are inherently very rare because otherwise they would have been found in phase 3 trials. They are simply not encountered until rollout because they are so rare i.e. the sample size isn't large enough to find them.

So vaccine reluctant due to "unknown long term side effects" is based on an incorrect understanding.
 
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My second Pfizer is August 28th. Seems quite far away. I keep thinking to try and rebook it but it says it would cancel my original one first before doing that. Bit worried it would then say the next available is Sept/Oct or something.
 
Solius said:
My second Pfizer is August 28th. Seems quite far away. I keep thinking to try and rebook it but it says it would cancel my original one first before doing that. Bit worried it would then say the next available is Sept/Oct or something.
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Here we were given the second appointment at the vaccine centre after the first jab. That made it easier and it was exactly 5 weeks.

Of course, they have small armies of administrators at vaccine centres here, as per everywhere in Italy. There's always someone to give you a form and rubber-stamp it.
 
Solius said:
My second Pfizer is August 28th. Seems quite far away. I keep thinking to try and rebook it but it says it would cancel my original one first before doing that. Bit worried it would then say the next available is Sept/Oct or something.
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The booking system is being revised to fix the rebooking lottery. The first step is that it can show you availablity before you cancel. The system's still pretty primitive (same test centre, next week's availability - if you're eligible for next week's availability) So right now it would only help if your next jab was scheduled for next month (reducing a 12 week gap to 8) but they are working on it.
 
jojojo said:
The booking system is being revised to fix the rebooking lottery. The first step is that it can show you availablity before you cancel. The system's still pretty primitive (same test centre, next week's availability - if you're eligible for next week's availability) So right now it would only help if your next jab was scheduled for next month (reducing a 12 week gap to 8) but they are working on it.
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Ah ok, good to know. Seems like something they'd never announce though so I guess I'd just have to keep checking.
 
jojojo said:
The booking system is being revised to fix the rebooking lottery. The first step is that it can show you availablity before you cancel. The system's still pretty primitive (same test centre, next week's availability - if you're eligible for next week's availability) So right now it would only help if your next jab was scheduled for next month (reducing a 12 week gap to 8) but they are working on it.
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This is good to know. I don't get my second one until August 5th which still seems an age away. Tbh it was such a pain to get the first one anywhere close enough to travel to I'm reluctant to try my hand at getting one sooner until this is fixed.
 
Solius said:
My second Pfizer is August 28th. Seems quite far away. I keep thinking to try and rebook it but it says it would cancel my original one first before doing that. Bit worried it would then say the next available is Sept/Oct or something.
Click to expand...

jojojo said:
The booking system is being revised to fix the rebooking lottery. The first step is that it can show you availablity before you cancel. The system's still pretty primitive (same test centre, next week's availability - if you're eligible for next week's availability) So right now it would only help if your next jab was scheduled for next month (reducing a 12 week gap to 8) but they are working on it.
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I was on it last week and it was allowing me to look at other appointments without cancelling first but none of them were any sooner. When I've been on since I get the same as Solius where I have to cancel first, maybe they were testing the new system last week?

My local authority Oldham has invited me by phone text to come and get my second jab right away but only if its Pfizer or AZ, unfortunately I got Moderna at the mass vaccination centre in Manchester!
 
Wibble said:
Long term side effects when it comes to vaccines is a misnomer as they are not a drug so don't do things like bioaccumulate. Side effects with vaccines (as with the AZ clotting) tend to occur very soon after the vaccine is administered. The other important thing to note is that such side effects are inherently very rare because otherwise they would have been found in phase 3 trials. They are simply not encountered until rollout because they are so rare i.e. the sample size isn't large enough to find them.

So vaccine reluctant due to "unknown long term side effects" is based on an incorrect understanding.
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The answer is this:

https://www.icsi.org/covid-19-vaccine-faq/what-about-long-term-effects-of-the-vaccine/

Health care systems and public health experts are recommending this vaccine because based on current evidence, they believe the risks of COVID-19 disease outweigh the risks of the COVID-19 vaccine. This recommendation is based on the best evidence available today, understanding that recommendations may change over time as we learn more about COVID-19 and/or its treatments.
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Other vaccines have produced such negative long term effects, for example:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1114674/

Simply put, vaccine trials usually take many years because you can never know exactly how the human body will react on a multi year timeline.
 
Mb194dc said:
The answer is this:

https://www.icsi.org/covid-19-vaccine-faq/what-about-long-term-effects-of-the-vaccine/



Other vaccines have produced such negative long term effects, for example:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1114674/

Simply put, vaccine trials usually take many years because you can never know exactly how the human body will react on a multi year timeline.
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You should bear in mind the obvious conflict of interests in that correspondence. Not to mention that the alleged risk they allude to is on too lengthy a time frame to have been picked up during the development of any other vaccine (or any other medicine).

I disagree with your last sentence. The reason vaccine trials take years is not just about collecting long term safety data. The main reason is because it takes so much longer to recruit the huge number of subjects required to collect the very strong efficacy and safety data the regulators insist on for drugs given to people that aren’t sick. Obviously this was not an issue with covid. There’s never been so much resources and willing volunteers in the development of any other medicines in history.
 
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Looks like the national booking system for England will announce that it's open up to all 18 and older tomorrow. That usually means that it will start working for people trying this evening. Wales and NI have already made that 18+ announcement. I've not heard an update on Scotland, but guess they're at about the same stage.
 
A lively experience this morning at the big vaccination centre I went to, all human life was there. There were all ages of people this time and an abundance of shouty pushy women with phones pressed to their ears.

When I was sitting in the jabbing cubicle, some mad old dear burst in - she'd managed to come in through the out door and had no idea what to do next, as it's a huge building with many big rooms and you have to follow a route. She then shouted at the doctor for a minute, whilst he stood there with my jab poised, rolling his eyes at me in the wonderful way that people do here.

I rate it far higher than my first appointment for entertainment value.
 
Solius said:
I thought this purely because there's an immune response which means your body already knows what this is and is reacting to it. Whereas most who haven't had it get it on their second jab because their body recognises it from Jab 1 and you now get side effects.

Anyone know if that's actually true though? It sounds logical enough but I'm just guessing.

I had a few minor side effects but they went quickly. Gf had hers yesterday and has had zero side effects apart from a sore arm.
Click to expand...

There is some research showing people who've had it report worse side effects first time. Kind of interesting as my first Pfizer one put me in bed for half a day!
 
I’m 29 and had my first one yesterday. Had the moderna one and only side effect so far is a dead arm. Was quite impressed at the efficiency of the whole thing really. Had my jab within 5 minutes of turning up.
 
Hearing from people at vaccination centres that anti-vaxxers are registering, turning up, queuing and going all the way up to the point of injection so they can refuse to consent. Presumably doing this to waste time and take up a slot that could go to someone else. Blows my mind that selfish horrible cnuts like this actually exist in real life. They must be so damaged.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You should bear in mind the obvious conflict of interests in that correspondence. Not to mention that the alleged risk they allude to is on too lengthy a time frame to have been picked up during the development of any other vaccine (or any other medicine).

I disagree with your last sentence. The reason vaccine trials take years is not just about collecting long term safety data. The main reason is because it takes so much longer to recruit the huge number of subjects required to collect the very strong efficacy and safety data the regulators insist on for drugs given to people that aren’t sick. Obviously this was not an issue with covid. There’s never been so much resources and willing volunteers in the development of any other medicines in history.
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Is what he is saying categorically untrue? Is it not possible for a vaccine to not show side effects in the longer term if it looks safe in the short term?(I don't know what durations 'short term' and 'long term' would be, say, 3 months and longer?)

I can see what Wibble wrote, but am curious to hear your view.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Hearing from people at vaccination centres that anti-vaxxers are registering, turning up, queuing and going all the way up to the point of injection so they can refuse to consent. Presumably doing this to waste time and take up a slot that could go to someone else. Blows my mind that selfish horrible cnuts like this actually exist in real life. They must be so damaged.
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what the fecking shit
 
Just had my first dose of the Pfizer vaccine. Waiting for 10 minutes in the car before driving home and feel perfectly fine. Hopefully I don't get any symptoms!
 
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