The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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2cents said:
I was under the impression that the problem is that the intelligence was gained through illegal Russian hacking of America (a hostile act), and that the Trump team may have been aware that the information they were receiving was procured through those means. That this is what distinguishes it from other cases where a campaign may have received information from a foreign entity.
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If true, a fair point.
 
Buchan said:
For what it's worth, yes, I agree that they are wholly different. As posted above, I am of the opinion that if you're going to penalise one side for their actions, the other side must also face sanctions for mirrored behaviour.
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iKnowNothing said:
Weren't there some news reports of Clinton campaign seeking help from some Ukrainians? Should that be the case, then it pretty much is equally disgusting thing to do.
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I'm no Clinton fan so they can investigate her for all I care. In fact, I hope they do so she can't feck this up by running again. But resentment aside, yes, I do agree that there needs to be equal scrutiny for both sides.
 
Silva said:
Uh, it's the CIA they've involved in everything, and summarised for Pres. Obama & Trump. They've played no part in it publicly though.
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The CIA's actions were a little confusing, however: why did they brief Trump when he's the one being accused of treasonous acts? Would a prosecutor brief a murderer on the case against him before it's officially investigated? It's peculiar to say the least.
 
Buchan said:
The CIA's actions were a little confusing, however: why did they brief Trump when he's the one being accused of treasonous acts? Would a prosecutor brief a murderer on the case against him before it's formally investigated? It's peculiar to say the least.
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Because the CIA aren't accusing him of anything.
 
Il Prete Rosso said:
Intelligence is relative.
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iKnowNothing said:
BURN :lol:
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Err.. Now I feel I've overstepped there. I only meant to say that 99.9% human population would have to be classified as idiots because there are always super IQ people in the rest of .1%

This notion that everyone who voted for Trump is an idiot is basically idiotic by itself. You can definitely call them hypocrites, but not idiots. Many people in the US, not only rich and the powerful, but everyday people believe in conservative principles. Many Christian religious voters believed Trump will further their agenda of social/family values. They consciously voted for a guy who doesn't believe in either because they thought he was their best shot at furthering their goal. It's a calculated decision, which makes them hypocrites, but not idiots. Many of the people who voted for Trump, are successful people who work in Tech, medical, insurance fields and many are successful entrepreneurs.

I'm a fairly liberal person and I believe the number of idiots who voted for Trump would be greater than the ones voted for Hillary Clinton, but that is my bias showing. There would be a good number of idiots who voted for Sanders in the primary as well. Your vote for a certain person doesn't determine your intelligence level, just what you think is a good policy that the country wants to go with.
 
Buchan said:
For what it's worth, yes, I agree that they are wholly different. As posted above, I am of the opinion that if you're going to penalise one side for their actions, the other side must also face sanctions for mirrored behaviour.
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If you ask me, just let everyone who's done something illegal go down. I'm not against Trump because of the party he's affiliated with. Not that I'm a fan of the republicans with the mental gymnastics they get up to though.
Was it Hannity that suggested a democrat could've set up the meeting between Don Jr. and the Russians to get him in trouble?
 
Regarding the Clinton campaign, the DNC, and Ukraine...

DNC denies working with Ukrainian government, but contractor floated anti-Trump material

(CNN)Multiple Democratic National Committee officials, former Clinton campaign officials and Democratic sources denied that the Democratic committee or Clinton campaign worked with the government of Ukraine to dig up dirt on Donald Trump and his top aides.

But multiple Democratic sources said that a DNC contractor, whose work included organizing political events for Ukranian-Americans, did tell DNC operatives that Ukrainian officials would be willing to deliver damaging information on Trump's campaign and, most notably, Paul Manafort, his then-campaign head
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http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/12/politics/dnc-ukraine-trump-material/index.html

So, if this story is true, the Clinton campaign and DNC had the same opportunity to gain valuable intel from a foreign source, and, unlike Trump Jr., refused it.
 
Silva said:
The poll question is a bit too narrow isn't it? The problem isn't that anyone was looking for dirt on their rival, it's that they were getting it from the highest levels of another countries intelligence agency.
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You'd think so wouldn't you
 
Maagge said:
Was it Hannity that suggested a democrat could've set up the meeting between Don Jr. and the Russians to get him in trouble?
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There's certainly more to this than meets the eye. This would've leaked months ago otherwise. Somebody, somewhere, wasn't too eager for this to come to light, and I don't mean the Trumps.
 
fishfingers15 said:
Err.. Now I feel I've overstepped there. I only meant to say that 99.9% human population would have to be classified as idiots because there are always super IQ people in the rest of .1%

This notion that everyone who voted for Trump is an idiot is basically idiotic by itself. You can definitely call them hypocrites, but not idiots. Many people in the US, not only rich and the powerful, but everyday people believe in conservative principles. Many Christian religious voters believed Trump will further their agenda of social/family values. They consciously voted for a guy who doesn't believe in either because they thought he was their best shot at furthering their goal. It's a calculated decision, which makes them hypocrites, but not idiots. Many of the people who voted for Trump, are successful people who work in Tech, medical, insurance fields and many are successful entrepreneurs.

I'm a fairly liberal person and I believe the number of idiots who voted for Trump would be greater than the ones voted for Hillary Clinton, but that is my bias showing. There would be a good number of idiots who voted for Sanders in the primary as well. Your vote for a certain person doesn't determine your intelligence level, just what you think is a good policy that the country wants to go with.
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You just proved my point....
 
Buchan said:
The CIA's actions were a little confusing, however: why did they brief Trump when he's the one being accused of treasonous acts? Would a prosecutor brief a murderer on the case against him before it's officially investigated? It's peculiar to say the least.
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It was the FBI that briefed Trump on the dossier and they did so as they believed it was about to be published in the press and he should have a heads up on it, particularly concerning the salacious material (i.e. pee pee tape). The dossier was compiled by a private firm and according to Comey in his testimony the FBI did not place any reliance on it in the course of their various investigations around hacking and Trump/Russia.

As for the Hillary/Ukraine & Trump/Russia comparisons I'd argue the acts are in different ball parks. Definitely the same sport but the only way there'd be true equivalence is if a) Ukraine were an enemy of the US as opposed to an ally and b) Poroshenko himself directed cyber attacks against the US election including the participants and then approached Hillary's campaign offering dirt on her opponents.

Having said that I can definitely see why people raise it. There was a good politifact article published yesterday on this very question.
 
Maagge said:
If you ask me, just let everyone who's done something illegal go down. I'm not against Trump because of the party he's affiliated with. Not that I'm a fan of the republicans with the mental gymnastics they get up to though.
Was it Hannity that suggested a democrat could've set up the meeting between Don Jr. and the Russians to get him in trouble?
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The spin from the Trump camp/supporters since this story broke was that this Russian lawyer was a Obama/Clinton plant sent in to frame Trump Jr. I am unsure if Hannity himself claimed this.

An example is the image below which was widely circulated from Trump supporters, alt right and conspiracy sites like Wikileaks.



They were trying to imply Obama administration officials such as Ambassador McFaul knew the lawyer and they invited her to this hearing. It now turns out that McFaul didn't know the woman, nor had he ever met her and had no association whatsoever with the lawyer.
 
Buchan said:
There's certainly more to this than meets the eye. This would've leaked months ago otherwise. Somebody, somewhere, wasn't too eager for this to come to light, and I don't mean the Trumps.
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Or, the NYT found out about this meeting at around the same time as the Senate committee did. They then did some investigating, which takes time, got their ducks in a row, which takes time, and just now moved to publish.
 
Buchan said:
There's certainly more to this than meets the eye. This would've leaked months ago otherwise. Somebody, somewhere, wasn't too eager for this to come to light, and I don't mean the Trumps.
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Who then? Who are you hinting at here?

I've just realised you're the guy who stated "He's right, what is he hiding?" when Trump accused Podesta of refusing to let the FBI see the DNC servers on twitter last week. This isn't a dig (it's constructive advice) but it would really help you to actually learn the facts surrounding this whole story before commenting.

If you simply react and respond to what Trump and his surrogates are putting out there you're constantly going to be mislead.
 
Buchan said:
Isn't that where the bogus Trump Moscow dossier originated? Multiple countries' intelligence communities were involved in that hocus-pocus, if memory serves?

For what it's worth, yes, I agree that they are wholly different. As posted above, I am of the opinion that if you're going to penalise one side for their actions, the other side must also face sanctions for mirrored behaviour.
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Not sure where you're getting the idea the Steele dossier was "bogus". Multiple media outlets have reported that parts of the Steele dossier has turned out to be correct and verified.
 
Of course the Clinton campaign should be equally scrutinized if there were thoughts of getting information on Trump from foreign entities. Anyone saying otherwise needs to take off the tinted glasses.
 
Carolina Red said:
I had someone respond to me on Facebook a couple days ago saying "you sound like you want someone imprisoned for a conversation... you sound like the Gestapo"

I asked if she'd ever heard of "conspiracy to commit _____" because people are imprisoned for conversations all the time

"You see, your honor, I only had a conversation with the hit man about killing my wife. Just a conversation!"
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:lol::lol:
 
GOP congressman has called for Trump to get rid of his children who are working in the WH.
 
Why is it a problem to think that Trump supporters are dumber? They objectively are. His support is from non-college whites, which will mean, on average, that his voters are dumber than his opponents. Just a truth they don't like to hear.
 
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fcbforever said:
Why is it a problem to think that Trump supporters are dumber? They objectively are. His support is from non-college whites, which will mean, on average, that his voters are on average dumber than his opponents. Just a truth they don't like to hear.
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You elitist liberal with your brainwashing institutions run by the Masonic Illuminati!
 
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