The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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Wasn't the information that led to Nixon resigning also from anonymous sources? Imagine someone named Deep Throat leaking out Trump-Russia info these days. :lol:
 
matherto said:
Nah, that's what Trump supporters think we hate about him being President, hence why whenever you question them they go on the 'you lost libtard' offensive.

None of us that want him gone/bankrupt/dead give a shit about Clinton or the election result, especially if we're not American and we're happy to admit she was an awful candidate. I can't stand the woman and she epitomises slime. Americans were truly in a bind when it came to picking between them.

We hate Trump because he's a lying, cheating, misogynistic, race-baiting, hypocritical shitehawk. He's a vile human being and he proves it every day.

Trump supporters will continue to see the boy cried wolf schtick and will continue to solidify their own beliefs and support for him and that's fine. They've made their bed and they're lying in it. You pick a side and you stick with it for as long as it lasts, that's respectable even if the other side sees them as ridiculous. And no, not all of them are braindead, brainwashed, blind-following hicks but a sizeable portion that we see in the media and online certainly are.

You mention there being no evidence which is the time honoured call from a Trump fan but for fecks sake, do you not understand how an investigation works? The FBI and the SIC aren't going to publish a daily play by play of what they've been investigating and what they've found and nothing is going to come out until they finish with their reports and that might take years yet. I hope it doesn't because I want Trump out as quickly as possible but nobody knows how long this will take. I can only guess that it'll take longer than we think. If there was NOTHING to look at I daresay everything would be over and done with already and Trump supporters would be lording it over the rest of us until the end of time but the investigations are still going on

Meanwhile investigative reporting will get us little snippets of things worth knowing hence why we have a clear picture of all the meetings that Trump campaign members and cabinet members failed to disclose with Russian businessmen and government officials tied to Putin. The fact that they keep finding things points to a bigger picture very slowly revealing itself.

I'm quite willing to admit that despite these ties there could still be absolutely nothing to it all but when they've openly lied, deceived, misled the public and also the government in confirmation hearings/security clearance briefings and then they've been found out afterwards by the media to have lied it paints a very prominent picture of the way they've behaved. They're not even very good at covering their tracks or reacting when they get caught out.

It's worth pointing out though that we all definitely know the Russians meddled in the election somehow, it's indisputable. Whether Trump and his team personally allowed it or took part in it is what is up for finding out.
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This week has confirmed that the Trump campaign actively tried to benefit from the Russian interference. That's also indisputable now. We already knew that they had benefited. Now we just need to learn what was the quid pro quo and who agreed to what and when, as well as what was the role of Trump himself. Regardless, he's going to be shown as a complete fool who was kept in the dark about his campaign's criminal dealings or a criminal himself.
 
@Buchan I see what you mean by 'Boy who cried wolf' and to an extent the amount of focus on Trump is actually helping keep his supporters together. I would like to hear what you think about Donald Jr's emails that he released on twitter. Do you see that as a potential slippery slope?
 
iKnowNothing said:
@Buchan I see what you mean by 'Boy who cried wolf' and to an extent the amount of focus on Trump is actually helping keep his supporters together. I would like to hear what you think about Donald Jr's emails that he released on twitter. Do you see that as a potential slippery slope?
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They will not care about the emails or even collusion if it is found. They will applaud that team trump used all tools at their disposal to win and maga.
 
iKnowNothing said:
@Buchan I see what you mean by 'Boy who cried wolf' and to an extent the amount of focus on Trump is actually helping keep his supporters together. I would like to hear what you think about Donald Jr's emails that he released on twitter. Do you see that as a potential slippery slope?
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I'm actually a liberal who has, in some sense of the word, become more 'sympathetic' to Trump than I ever was during the campaign. Every single day I open the newspaper, launch various social media apps, read online fora etc., and it's the same overblown, over-the-top critique of Trump and his administration re: something trivial. Elements of the liberal media are tripping over themselves in order to see who can be a) the first, b) the most sensational, or c) the most sustained angle of attack on him. Often, it later transpires, these 'attacks' come to nothing: complete non-stories. How can people view this as nothing but a strengthening exercise of Trump's support? Trump tweets about 'witch-hunts' and his supporters will gladly endorse that view. It certainly has a 'Boy who cried wolf' feel to it, which may have potential effects further along the line.

As for Trump Jr.'s Russian meeting, there's more to that than meets the eye, in my view. The Democrats would've surely been tipped off about this 'scandal' months ago. Why didn't they press ahead with it? Maybe because there's links there that could incriminate themselves? I don't know, I'm just speculating. As for the morality of the meeting itself, campaign team members fishing for 'dirt' on the opposition goes on all the time in politics. I personally think it's a 'nothing burger' but it's the only tenuous link the media and the DNC have between Trump and Russia so they'll milk it for all they've got.
 
matherto said:
Nah, that's what Trump supporters think we hate about him being President, hence why whenever you question them they go on the 'you lost libtard' offensive.

None of us that want him gone/bankrupt/dead give a shit about Clinton or the election result, especially if we're not American and we're happy to admit she was an awful candidate. I can't stand the woman and she epitomises slime. Americans were truly in a bind when it came to picking between them.

We hate Trump because he's a lying, cheating, misogynistic, race-baiting, hypocritical shitehawk. He's a vile human being and he proves it every day.

Trump supporters will continue to see the boy cried wolf schtick and will continue to solidify their own beliefs and support for him and that's fine. They've made their bed and they're lying in it. You pick a side and you stick with it for as long as it lasts, that's respectable even if the other side sees them as ridiculous. And no, not all of them are braindead, brainwashed, blind-following hicks but a sizeable portion that we see in the media and online certainly are.

You mention there being no evidence which is the time honoured call from a Trump fan but for fecks sake, do you not understand how an investigation works? The FBI and the SIC aren't going to publish a daily play by play of what they've been investigating and what they've found and nothing is going to come out until they finish with their reports and that might take years yet. I hope it doesn't because I want Trump out as quickly as possible but nobody knows how long this will take. I can only guess that it'll take longer than we think. If there was NOTHING to look at I daresay everything would be over and done with already and Trump supporters would be lording it over the rest of us until the end of time but the investigations are still going on

Meanwhile investigative reporting will get us little snippets of things worth knowing hence why we have a clear picture of all the meetings that Trump campaign members and cabinet members failed to disclose with Russian businessmen and government officials tied to Putin. The fact that they keep finding things points to a bigger picture very slowly revealing itself.

I'm quite willing to admit that despite these ties there could still be absolutely nothing to it all but when they've openly lied, deceived, misled the public and also the government in confirmation hearings/security clearance briefings and then they've been found out afterwards by the media to have lied it paints a very prominent picture of the way they've behaved. They're not even very good at covering their tracks or reacting when they get caught out.

It's worth pointing out though that we all definitely know the Russians meddled in the election somehow, it's indisputable. Whether Trump and his team personally allowed it or took part in it is what is up for finding out.
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I wasn't aware that this was debatable.
 
Bobcat said:
Well to be fair i think you do have a point. The left in the US can seem "elitist" at times, and instead of meeting the concerns of people who voted for Trump, they instead replied with snarling contempt after the election.

That being said, Trump is just a vile, horrible human being and a completely incompetent politician. So yes while the reactions can seem extreme at times his presidency has been one disaster after the other.

Dont agree with your last paragraph though, if anything, Trumps presidency will only galvanize and strengthen the left, because except being a racist he has done nothing and has nothing in common with his core voters
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What are their concerns exactly?

That they blame other people for their shitty lives? That they blame Obama for the racial tensions in America? There's no reasoning with them...lots of them. Trump came along as their perfect mouthpiece to blame immigrants, Obama, poor people, people of colour, Muslims and the media for all their problems. Most of them in the rust belt are still sitting at home waiting for their jobs to miraculously return from China or from a robot. What they fail to realize is that the governors, congressmen and people they elect are the ones who's screwed them over for a piece of the American pie...money! There's no rocket science to what's going on in America.
 
Buchan said:
I'm actually a liberal who has, in some sense of the word, become more 'sympathetic' to Trump than I ever was during the campaign. Every single day I open the newspaper, launch various social media apps, read online fora etc., and it's the same overblown, over-the-top critique of Trump and his administration re: something trivial. Elements of the liberal media are tripping over themselves in order to see who can be a) the first, b) the most sensational, or c) the most sustained angle of attack on him. Often, it later transpires, these 'attacks' come to nothing: complete non-stories. How can people view this as nothing but a strengthening exercise of Trump's support? Trump tweets about 'witch-hunts' and his supporters will gladly endorse that view. It certainly has a 'Boy who cried wolf' feel to it, which may have potential effects further along the line.

As for Trump Jr.'s Russian meeting, there's more to that than meets the eye, in my view. The Democrats would've surely been tipped off about this 'scandal' months ago. Why didn't they press ahead with it? Maybe because there's links there that could incriminate themselves? I don't know, I'm just speculating. As for the morality of the meeting itself, campaign team members fishing for 'dirt' on the opposition goes on all the time in politics. I personally think it's a 'nothing burger' but it's the only tenuous link the media and the DNC have between Trump and Russia so they'll milk it for all they've got.
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Oy vey

I'm not going to address the media part of this, but the part in bold about the meeting...

Conspiracy to commit a felony is NOT a "nothing burger"
 
Buchan said:
The air of superiority in here from so-called liberals and progressives is astounding at times.
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Buchan said:
I'm not suggesting Trump is perfect. Far from it. Clinton was equally a poor candidate, for me, however. A lot of the Trump hate appears to stem from the fact that he beat her fair and square in an election her and her cohorts were deemed victors of before a ballot had been cast. There's been an orchestrated campaign against Trump's presidency since early November with cries of foreign interference, administration mismanagement etc., yet no proof of any of this exists, just hearsay, conjecture and 'anonymous sources'.

Can you, or anyone else here, see the harm this is doing the Left and how it is solidifying Trump's hand within his already feverish support? There's a 'Boy who called wolf' element to all this, and I just hope for the liberal/progressive element, it's highlighted before it's too late.
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After what Republicans did to Obama for 8 years, I find it very hard to take you seriously. It's like alzheimers has infected Republicans since Trump's in the White House. Every point you made we can relate it to Republicans and their treatment of Obama. The sad part is that he didn't deserve most of the vitriol being spewed at him. The shoe's on the other foot...smelly is it not?
 
matherto said:
I meant to frame it as an 'either or' statement. Did they merely allow it to happen and knew about it or did they actively participate in it?
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Come on dude, I'm assuming you're a smart guy. Even my 12 year old daughter could put this Russia puzzle together and realize that Trump and his family were deeply in bed with Russia before and during the election. NOTHING like this happens in Russia without Putin knowing and moreover, there was no way Trump himself could not have actively known about Putin's help in trying to get him elected.
 
Buchan said:
The air of superiority in here from so-called liberals and progressives is astounding at times.
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It's hard not to feel superior to people who blindly voted for, and still blindly support, a person who is going to give the likes of Buchanan, Pierce, Harding, and Hoover a run for their money.
 
sglowrider said:
I guess if you shoot someone but missed, it aint a crime/nothinburger.
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I had someone respond to me on Facebook a couple days ago saying "you sound like you want someone imprisoned for a conversation... you sound like the Gestapo"

I asked if she'd ever heard of "conspiracy to commit _____" because people are imprisoned for conversations all the time

"You see, your honor, I only had a conversation with the hit man about killing my wife. Just a conversation!"
 
Have the DNC and Clinton camp completely denied the claim that a DNC contractor met with Ukrainian officials?

If even a bit of this Politico story (From January) is true, then its 100% wrong and needs investigating.

Its just wrong for any campaigns to be in contact with foreign nationals and governments trying to butt in to other countries elections and for documents to be exchanged during an election campaign.
 
Buchan said:
I'm actually a liberal who has, in some sense of the word, become more 'sympathetic' to Trump than I ever was during the campaign. Every single day I open the newspaper, launch various social media apps, read online fora etc., and it's the same overblown, over-the-top critique of Trump and his administration re: something trivial. Elements of the liberal media are tripping over themselves in order to see who can be a) the first, b) the most sensational, or c) the most sustained angle of attack on him. Often, it later transpires, these 'attacks' come to nothing: complete non-stories. How can people view this as nothing but a strengthening exercise of Trump's support? Trump tweets about 'witch-hunts' and his supporters will gladly endorse that view. It certainly has a 'Boy who cried wolf' feel to it, which may have potential effects further along the line.

As for Trump Jr.'s Russian meeting, there's more to that than meets the eye, in my view. The Democrats would've surely been tipped off about this 'scandal' months ago. Why didn't they press ahead with it? Maybe because there's links there that could incriminate themselves? I don't know, I'm just speculating. As for the morality of the meeting itself, campaign team members fishing for 'dirt' on the opposition goes on all the time in politics. I personally think it's a 'nothing burger' but it's the only tenuous link the media and the DNC have between Trump and Russia so they'll milk it for all they've got.
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Does this mean that should something come out of the alleged Clinton camp's meeting with Ukraine, do you think it will turn out to be a stick for people to beat her/Dems with, while conveniently ignoring Trump Jr.'s emails?
 
iKnowNothing said:
Does this mean that should something come out of the alleged Clinton camp's meeting with Ukraine, do you think it will turn out to be a stick for people to beat her/Dems with, while conveniently ignoring Trump Jr.'s emails?
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I voted in the poll stickied above the other day that both are standard political discourse, however immoral they may be, and not an issue.

However, if you're going to come down like a tonne of bricks on one side of the fence, you must equally do likewise to the other.
 
The poll question is a bit too narrow isn't it? The problem isn't that anyone was looking for dirt on their rival, it's that they were getting it from the highest levels of another countries intelligence agency.
 
Buchan said:
I voted in the poll stickied above the other day that both are standard political discourse, however immoral they may be, and not an issue.

However, if you're going to come down like a tonne of bricks on one side of the fence, you must equally do likewise to the other.
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Surely you see the difference between getting dirt on a candidate from American-based intel and getting dirt from a Kremlin-based intel?
 
Silva said:
The poll question is a bit too narrow isn't it? The problem isn't that anyone was looking for dirt on their rival, it's that they were getting it from the highest levels of another countries intelligence agency.
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SaintTresano said:
Surely you see the difference between getting dirt on a candidate from American-based intel and getting dirt from a Kremlin-based intel?
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Isn't that where the bogus Trump Moscow dossier originated? Multiple countries' intelligence communities were involved in that hocus-pocus, if memory serves?

For what it's worth, yes, I agree that they are wholly different. As posted above, I am of the opinion that if you're going to penalise one side for their actions, the other side must also face sanctions for mirrored behaviour.
 
Buchan said:
Isn't that where the bogus Trump Moscow dossier originated? Multiple countries' intelligence communities were involved in that hocus-pocus, if memory serves?
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It was one former MI6 agent who couldn't even get it published. At the time was working for a private investigation firm, not an intelligence agency. And it's yet to be confirmed/denied as bogus.
 
Silva said:
The poll question is a bit too narrow isn't it? The problem isn't that anyone was looking for dirt on their rival, it's that they were getting it from the highest levels of another countries intelligence agency.
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I was under the impression that the problem is that the intelligence was gained through illegal Russian hacking of America (a hostile act), and that the Trump team may have been aware that the information they were receiving was procured through those means. That this is what distinguishes it from other cases where a campaign may have received information from a foreign entity.
 
2cents said:
I was under the impression that the problem is that the intelligence was gained through illegal Russian hacking of America (a hostile act), and that the Trump team may have been aware that the information they were receiving was procured through those means.
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I have no idea what the law says about that, but the people who have gotten into trouble so far have done so because they didn't disclose meetings with foreign actors (i.e Flynn).
 
SaintTresano said:
Surely you see the difference between getting dirt on a candidate from American-based intel and getting dirt from a Kremlin-based intel?
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Weren't there some news reports of Clinton campaign seeking help from some Ukrainians? Should that be the case, then it pretty much is equally disgusting thing to do.

Buchan said:
I voted in the poll stickied above the other day that both are standard political discourse, however immoral they may be, and not an issue.

However, if you're going to come down like a tonne of bricks on one side of the fence, you must equally do likewise to the other.
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I agree.
 
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