The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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ZDwyr said:
Of course, and I can buy that some may vote for frivolous reasons. But I am skeptical that the majority of the white female voters did so. Or maybe I am overestimating the intellectual levels/care that they had.
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Now that the coalition is dead, it means that we turn on each other. So let me bring out my own enemy: I think feminism has a greater share of voice than its actual share of mind, especially if you read many of the cosmopolitan/urban sources many of us do.

I have no data to back this up, and I want cross-sectional data more than anything right now to start dissecting where this went wrong. So I'll readily admit to being wrong if its not the case, but that's my sense at this point and has been in the past.
 
Siorac said:
I'm struggling to understand why. I know women, traditionally, tended to vote more conservative. But that trend is changing and, as far as I'm aware, in recent elections more women voted for Democrats than men in the US.

How could Donald fecking Trump reverse that particular trend? What did he offer to WOMEN? Is it that it was never white women who were responsible for the trend? Or what?
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They were told how to vote by their men?
 
I think Hillary supporters need to face up to few facts

- I am not going to say that race played no role since a lot of race baiting did take place but Obama, a black man, was able to get elected twice with same electorate. Ultimately she could excite the same folks to turn out for her or some actually voted against her. Can't chalk up some white folks voting for a vlack president but against a white woman candidate to racism.
- She essentially ran a negative campaign rather than a positive one. Part of that is media narrative fault since so much space was occupied by Trump's scandal. There was a lot more focus on how Trump can harm US than how Hillary can help US.
- Hillary embodies Washington establishment. Voters angry at the prevailing order were never going to be behind her.
- In the end it seems Trump's toxic policies won over his toxic personality.

One complaint that is entirely valid and needs to be give more attention is the apparent sexism in US society. Even so called third would countries have had women leaders in charge of the country but US, a world superpower, can not elect its first women president still. It is obvious some men and women in US simply don't want a women in charge of the most important job.
 
JPRouve said:
:lol:

I agree but voters aren't exactly pragmatic, they have bastions and stand by them at all costs.
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Democracy in a nutshell

Red Ryan said:
You make some fair points but there is a massive school of thought that she capitalised on her husband's infidelities to garner sympathy and to use them as collateral for her own ends. But all that pales into comparison wth her involvement in Libya and the ruminations about the Clinton Foundation, especially using her charity's money to pay for her daughter's wedding.
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Oh I'm no Clinton supporter at all, but I do think her treatment was worse because she was a woman.
Yes she's corrupt, yes she's a liar, yes she deceives and panders name a president who isn't or hasn't done any of those things? Her corruption runs deeper than most because she's been around for much longer than most.
But I do think if she was a guy who did the same things, she wouldn't have received the same reception.
 
vi1lain said:
Democracy in a nutshell



Oh I'm no Clinton supporter at all, but I do think her treatment was worse because she was a woman.
Yes she's corrupt, yes she's a liar, yes she deceives and panders name a president who isn't or hasn't done any of those things? Her corruption runs deeper than most because she's been around for much longer than most.
But I do think if she was a guy who did the same things, she wouldn't have received the same reception.
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Maybe but she is also really exposed as she has been first lady and held high office. Her life and career has been under the microscope for a long time so she had nowhere to hide.
 
MarceloFalcon said:
Now that the coalition is dead, it means that we turn on each other.
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Obama coalition only ever worked for him. It did not work for other Dems in mid terms or general elections.

Why?

Because it seems the progressives in Democratic party are completely turned off by your run of the mill Washington insider. They would vote for a candidate that promises to bring the change they want rather than those who strive to maintain status quo. This was apparent in primaries where the same group propelled Bernie from nowhere to being a genuine contender. Republican base was able to nominate the candidate they wanted, democratic one failed.
 
crappycraperson said:
I think Hillary supporters need to face up to few facts

- I am not going to say that race played no role since a lot of race baiting did take place but Obama, a black man, was able to get elected twice with same electorate. Ultimately she could excite the same folks to turn out for her or some actually voted against her. Can't chalk up some white folks voting for a vlack president but against a white woman candidate to racism.
- She essentially ran a negative campaign rather than a positive one. Part of that is media narrative fault since so much space was occupied by Trump's scandal. There was a lot more focus on how Trump can harm US than how Hillary can help US.
- Hillary embodies Washington establishment. Voters angry at the prevailing order were never going to be behind her.
- In the end it seems Trump's toxic policies won over his toxic personality.

One complaint that is entirely valid and needs to be give more attention is the apparent sexism in US society. Even so called third would countries have had women leaders in charge of the country but US, a world superpower, can not elect its first women president still. It is obvious some men and women in US simply don't want a women in charge of the most important job.
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I don’t disagree with you comment about sexism, but gender wasn't the deciding factor in this election. It played almost no role at all. Trump didn’t win because Hillary is a women. He won because she confirmed every stereotype of “establishment politicians” during the election. It was an anti-establishment vote where both candidates were on the extreme of the spectrum. Additionally the last weeks of the campaign were a pure horror-show for Clinton.
 
ZDwyr said:
Yeah I accept the loyalty line of thinking, I think that is a fair assessment.
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I don't condone it mind, I feel the States needed a strong figure in times like this, especially with Brexit and how unstable the world economy is given that the States and the dollar in particular are pivotal in that.

Then I see some of the leaders in other countries - Orban, Trudeau, Ammann and then Clinton, Trump... Something just doesn't feel right.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Maybe but she is also really exposed as she has been first lady and held high office. Her life and career has been under the microscope for a long time so she had nowhere to hide.
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Exactly, she has nothing to hide, and yet she continues to be hounded out.
Meanwhile the current president hasn't even released his tax forms, has about 8 sexual assault claims against him, and the first lady is an ex porn star. :lol:
 
vi1lain said:
Exactly, she has nothing to hide, and yet she continues to be hounded out.
Meanwhile the current president hasn't even released his tax forms, has about 8 sexual assault claims against him, and the first lady is an ex porn star. :lol:
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:lol:
 
PedroMendez said:
I don’t disagree with you comment about sexism, but gender wasn't the deciding factor in this election. It played almost no role at all. Trump didn’t win because Hillary is a women. He won because she confirmed every stereotype of “establishment politicians” during the election. It was an anti-establishment vote where both candidates were on the extreme of the spectrum. Additionally the last weeks of the campaign were a pure horror-show for Clinton.
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That may have been a bigger handicap for Hillary but I don't believe the hesitation to put a woman in charge played no role.
 
vi1lain said:
Exactly, she has nothing to hide, and yet she continues to be hounded out.
Meanwhile the current president hasn't even released his tax forms, has about 8 sexual assault claims against him, and the first lady is an ex porn star. :lol:
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JPRouve is on that dossier.:D
 
vi1lain said:
Exactly, she has nothing to hide, and yet she continues to be hounded out.
Meanwhile the current president hasn't even released his tax forms, has about 8 sexual assault claims against him, and the first lady is an ex porn star. :lol:
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She isn't a porn star. She did nude photo shoots as a model.

Trump still has to appear soon for some court cases right? Awkward.
 
vi1lain said:
Exactly, she has nothing to hide, and yet she continues to be hounded out.
Meanwhile the current president hasn't even released his tax forms, has about 8 sexual assault claims against him, and the first lady is an ex porn star. :lol:
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Just read she speaks 5 languages, so she's got that going for her.
 
vi1lain said:
Exactly, she has nothing to hide, and yet she continues to be hounded out.
Meanwhile the current president hasn't even released his tax forms, has about 8 sexual assault claims against him, and the first lady is an ex porn star. :lol:
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yeah...shaming a women for nude semi-nude fotos....way to go....but you complained about sexism? :wenger:
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
Quite possibly but can you blame us for fearing white men in America are as horrendous as we have just found out they are?
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Think there was inevitably gonna be some kick back against the recent trend of safe spaces/trigger warnings/check your privilege etc. Not to defend voting for Trump, but I think his support among white males was incoming from a position of "well if you think we're cnuts anyway then have some of this". A self-fulfiling prophecy of sorts.
 
vi1lain said:
and the first lady is an ex porn star. :lol:
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Way to go. Complain about sexism and then bring up a completely irrelevant point.

Maybe there's something to the women hate women theory after all
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
He denies climate change ffs and has vowed to rip up the Paris agreement, how are you "calm" about that?
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I didn't say I was calm. I said I was a bit more calm. It's a relative thing.

The fact is it's easy to say those things but quite hard to actually execute. I do genuinely believe that Trump will have some bad policies (he is republican after all). But a large part of his spiel I'm starting to believe is just for dramatically effect to get votes.
 
All you guys came out of hiding at the mention of porn star. Apparently she was a nude model splitting hairs, but definitely available on google.

PedroMendez said:
yeah...shaming a women for nude semi-nude fotos....way to go....but you complained about sexism? :wenger:
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Akash said:
Way to go. Complain about sexism and then bring up a completely irrelevant point.

Maybe there's something to the women hate women theory after all
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I didn't shame her. I pointed out a fact.

If Michelle Obama had done the same, well... Barack wouldn't have even got past the first primary. Hell if Hillary had done the same, she definitely wouldn't be close.

I merely pointed out the double standards.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
He denies climate change ffs and has vowed to rip up the Paris agreement, how are you "calm" about that?
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That's what scares me the most too, but then I remember that Hillary received over double the amount from Oil executives and companies for her campaign than Trump, and you have to ask yourself "would it really be that big a difference?". However, Republicans are crazy with their anti-Global warming agenda, so with Trump, the House, and the Senate in their possession, it's not looking great.
 
Akash said:
Way to go. Complain about sexism and then bring up a completely irrelevant point.

Maybe there's something to the women hate women theory after all
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I'll use Instagram as an example. I have noticed that BY FAR most insults on Instagram are towards women from other women.
 
soap said:
Think there was inevitably gonna be some kick back against the recent trend of safe spaces/trigger warnings/check your privilege etc. Not to defend voting for Trump, but I think his support among white males was incoming from a position of "well if you think we're cnuts anyway then have some of this". A self-fulfiling prophecy of sorts.
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I'm sure you are right that such was a significant factor.
 
vi1lain said:
I didn't shame her. I pointed out a fact.

If Michelle Obama had done the same, well... Barack wouldn't have even got past the first primary. Hell if Hillary had done the same, she definitely wouldn't be close.

I merely pointed out the double standards.
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Of course if Hillary had done the same it would be a different issue; running for President is entirely different to being the first lady.
 
vi1lain said:
All you guys came out of hiding at the mention of porn star. Apparently she was a nude model splitting hairs, but definitely available on google.





I didn't shame her. I pointed out a fact.

If Michelle Obama had done the same, well... Barack wouldn't have even got past the first primary. Hell if Hillary had done the same, she definitely wouldn't be close.

I merely pointed out the double standards.
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oh I see you were slut shaming but in a good way.
 
crappycraperson said:
I think Hillary supporters need to face up to few facts

- I am not going to say that race played no role since a lot of race baiting did take place but Obama, a black man, was able to get elected twice with same electorate. Ultimately she could excite the same folks to turn out for her or some actually voted against her. Can't chalk up some white folks voting for a vlack president but against a white woman candidate to racism.
- She essentially ran a negative campaign rather than a positive one. Part of that is media narrative fault since so much space was occupied by Trump's scandal. There was a lot more focus on how Trump can harm US than how Hillary can help US.
- Hillary embodies Washington establishment. Voters angry at the prevailing order were never going to be behind her.
- In the end it seems Trump's toxic policies won over his toxic personality.

One complaint that is entirely valid and needs to be give more attention is the apparent sexism in US society. Even so called third would countries have had women leaders in charge of the country but US, a world superpower, can not elect its first women president still. It is obvious some men and women in US simply don't want a women in charge of the most important job.
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Yeah I was firmly pro Hillary, but I agree with a lot of that.

Also, one's gotta hand it to him, he won against the entire establishment, with practically no usable surrogate, and a fraction of the spending Hillary paid for commercials etc. And in EC votes it still isn't even close. I just don't buy that 50% of Americans or 29% of the latinos are racists either. This is a bad bad loss for the democrats and they should feel as bad about it as they currently do.
 
I am very much looking forward to his relationship with Philippines... Almost like an epic rap battle of presidential proportions!!!
 
vi1lain said:
Exactly, she has nothing to hide, and yet she continues to be hounded out.
Meanwhile the current president hasn't even released his tax forms, has about 8 sexual assault claims against him, and the first lady is an ex porn star. :lol:
Click to expand...

She isn't a porn star. She did nude photo shoots as a model.

Trump still has to appear soon for some court cases right? Awkward.
 
PedroMendez said:
any statement from the hillary campaign, if she is going to make a public statement?
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BO called Trump already... he's a better man than me. In his position I'd just sulk in the presidential bedroom, play videogames and tell them to call Biden if they need anything decided.
 
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