The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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syrian_scholes said:
But the article I tagged said additional screening not banned entry? Calling it a routine procedure as well?
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In practice its supposed to be additional screening for green card holders, but there are plenty of reports of green card holders being turned back. As @Raoul said, there seems to be a large amount of confusion over what exactly the policy is meant to be.

Somehow, I doubt that Trump or his admin is terribly concerned that people who aren't meant to be banned are facing that prospect in practice.
 
Raoul said:
Have you been dealing with a consulate to get your green card ? You may want to have a word with them for clarification.
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Of course I had to go through a US embassy interview and stuff, 4 years ago when I received final papers to go get my green card from the US which I did, and haven't stayed out of the us for more than 180 days aince going back and forth to complete my uni classes.
 
Ubik said:
This is my (somewhat paranoid) worry. Bannon's not dumb, he'd love there to be some violent episodes between the two sides as it gives reason to bring in yet more executive orders to "get things under control".
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He has that kind of mindset. No one can say how far Trump and him would go, but I hope the 'other America' is preparing itself for that possibility.
 
syrian_scholes said:
Of course I had to go through a US embassy interview and stuff, 4 years ago when I received final papers to go get my green card from the US which I did, and haven't stayed out of the us for more than 180 days aince going back and forth to complete my uni classes.
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So who are you dealing with given that the US has removed its Embassy ? The Czech Embassy or the US Embassy in Amman ?
 
Raoul said:
He didn't say it was, the tweeter just interpreted it as such. If it was truly a Muslim ban, it would actually apply to all Muslim, when this obviously only deal with high threat countries where ISIS or Al-Qaeda affiliates are currently operating (excepting Iran).
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The tweet was a transcript of a quote from Guilianni. Verbatim.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The tweet was a transcript of a quote from Guilianni. Verbatim.
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I got that bit. I'm saying the current policy is not what Trump originally proposed. The countries on Trump's list predate his presidency and were first proposed as high threat countries by Obama.
 
Raoul said:
So who are you dealing with given that the US has removed its Embassy ? The Czech Embassy or the US Embassy in Amman ?
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Yeah the US embassy in Amman but like I said it's been 4 years since I've been there, it's not easy to go there.
 
Rado_N said:
Raoul are you auditioning to replace Spicer?
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Just moderating a few nonsensical things. Its obviously a bad policy but the self-reinforcing groupthink is getting a bit tedious. Sometimes you just have to step away from the fray to get a clearer picture of things.
 
syrian_scholes said:
Yeah the US embassy in Amman but like I said it's been 4 years since I've been there, it's not easy to go there.
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Best to wait a few days and contact them by phone to get some clarity on the situation. I sense Trump will unbroaden the policy after public pressure grows.
 
Raoul said:
Just moderating a few nonsensical things. Its obviously a bad policy but the self-reinforcing groupthink is getting a bit tedious. Sometimes you just have to step away from the fray to get a clearer picture of things.
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Seems more like spin to be honest, you've been back and forth on things since well before the election.

There are times when outrage and concern are the appropriate responses and these are very much those times. You can't keep saying "it's not that bad". It is.
 
Raoul said:
Just moderating a few nonsensical things. Its obviously a bad policy but the self-reinforcing groupthink is getting a bit tedious. Sometimes you just have to step away from the fray to get a clearer picture of things.
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When you've got Steve Bannon pushing through stuff like this I think it's perfectly fine for people to become extremely worried. I get what you're saying and it's good to have a calm voice but you're operating on the assumption this government is in any way rational and listening to those who have a modicum of awareness on how policy should be enacted. This is the start I reckon...the man's originally plan was a complete ban on Muslim entry and this'll be a test of the waters. So far you've assumed at most steps he'll become more moderate but it's not happening. If anything he's going in the other direction.
 
Rado_N said:
Seems more like spin to be honest, you've been back and forth on things since well before the election.

There are times when outrage and concern are the appropriate responses and these are very much those times. You can't keep saying "it's not that bad". It is.
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It's only bad if you're incentivized to want it to be bad so you can complain (not you personally of course). Just another wonderful byproduct of social media groupthink that upsets people into thinking things are worse than they actually are.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
The Director of National Intelligence and the Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff are no longer on the National Security Council. Steve Bannon now sits in their place.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38787241

Anyone else get the feeling this is the beginning of the end?
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Clear-headed folk said that picking Priebus ahead of Bannon as CoS was a sign that Trump was going establishment. Working out well.
 
Raoul said:
It's only bad if you're incentivized to want it to be bad so you can complain (not you personally of course). Just another wonderful byproduct of social media groupthink that upsets people into thinking things are worse than they actually are.
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Nah, things are definitely very bad.
 
Cheesy said:
When you've got Steve Bannon pushing through stuff like this I think it's perfectly fine for people to become extremely worried. I get what you're saying and it's good to have a calm voice but you're operating on the assumption this government is in any way rational and listening to those who have a modicum of awareness on how policy should be enacted. This is the start I reckon...the man's originally plan was a complete ban on Muslim entry and this'll be a test of the waters. So far you've assumed at most steps he'll become more moderate but it's not happening. If anything he's going in the other direction.
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Its a predictable thing imo. Trump is inexperienced, Bannon is inexperienced yet power hungry, Flynn is inexperienced in his job, as are most of the inner circle. There are only two cabinet secretaries in place and the White House is attempting to bridge the gap by micromanaging things that are usually outside their lane (ie. the specifics of immigration policy). Give it a few weeks until all the relevant players are in place.
 
@Raoul Can you please state what your red lines are? What would it take for you to think that the Trump administration is heading towards an authoritarian and dangerous future?
 
John Lewis being awesome, standard.

 
Raoul said:
Its a predictable thing imo. Trump is inexperienced, Bannon is inexperienced yet power hungry, Flynn is inexperienced in his job, as are most of the inner circle. There are only two cabinet secretaries in place and the White House is attempting to bridge the gap by micromanaging things that are usually outside their lane (ie. the specifics of immigration policy). Give it a few weeks until all the relevant players are in place.
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Your predictions throughout this entire thing going back to the primaries don't inspire much hope that you're right with this one.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
@Raoul Can you please state what your red lines are? What would it take for you to think that the Trump administration is heading towards an authoritarian and dangerous future?
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Suspending the constitution, declaring martial law, imprisoning or murdering journalists, outlawing dissent etc.
 
Raoul said:
Its a predictable thing imo. Trump is inexperienced, Bannon is inexperienced yet power hungry, Flynn is inexperienced in his job, as are most of the inner circle. There are only two cabinet secretaries in place and the White House is attempting to bridge the gap by micromanaging things that are usually outside their lane (ie. the specifics of immigration policy). Give it a few weeks until all the relevant players are in place.
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And this is the problem. It's these men who currently hold power. There's little reason to believe they're going to, in any way, relinquish any of this. Bannon's inexperienced but he's also quite savvy - he's managed to weasel his way into Trump's team and is now a key US governmental figure, when he should be confined to his embarrassment of a propaganda site.

Thus far anyone likely to challenge Trump has been spineless. Believing Ryan and McConnell, for example, are going to do anything to stop him if it impedes upon their power is wishful thinking, I'd argue.

I'd like to believe you but I still think you're underestimating the incompetence and ideological drive of this regime - they are in no way moderate and will continue to push stuff like this through. Watch what happens if there's an actual attack...it'll be used to bring in a full Muslim ban, and perhaps for torture programs etc.
 
langster said:
Yeah, he was so worried about the shitstorm he decided to pan the NYTimes again first before mentioning the travel ban. FFS.

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How many times do you think he has used the words 'fake news' over the last few months? It's really transparent in my opinion (I don't think he's a bumbling idiot), I think he and his people are trying hard to muddy the water and generate a climate where nobody is certain exactly what is true, and what is happening. So he can keep everyone confused and distracted... Imo.
 
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