The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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Pence isn't taking calls from Schumer or Pelosi and has locked himself away since early this morning.

Not much chance of him approving or aiding a 25th amendment move anytime soon.
 
Mike Smalling said:
There does not have to be a conviction. As long as the criminal act is ‘known to the law’, it can be pardoned. Proceedings does not need to have started.
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So is it that he has a clean slate on all crimes committed up to a certain date without even mentioning what the crime is? Otherwise even if he pardons himself on one charge or more, prosecutors can arraign him on something else. There’s a lot of room for creativity there.

Is there any precedent on this that the justice department under Merrick Garland can’t challenge in court?

calodo2003 said:
It seems to be an outgrowth from when Ford preemptively pardoned Nixon after Nixon departed.

It’s preemptive pardon 2.0.
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He runs into the issue that even if he gets a clean sheet for federal charges, he could be tried in NY for tax offenses and maybe even in DC for starting a riot.
 
Tincanalley said:
I’m only landing in the thread and may be repeating, but... isn’t the idea to run down the clock? Once there’s a quorum in the cabinet, Trumo can assert his objection, but in the meantime, Pence stands in. So in effect starting the process would disempower him till his term runs out. Am I wrong?
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Pretty much . The only value of attempting another impeachment or invoking the 25th would be to send tacit messages to government bureaucrats and foreign governments that they should not take anything Trump does over the next 13 days shouldn’t be taken seriously. This applies especially to the military, in case he attempts to start a war or use the military domestically.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
So is it that he has a clean slate on all crimes committed up to a certain date without even mentioning what the crime is? Otherwise even if he pardons himself on one charge or more, prosecutors can arraign him on something else. There’s a lot of room for creativity there.

Is there any precedent on this that the justice department under Merrick Garland can’t challenge in court?



He runs into the issue that even if he gets a clean sheet for federal charges, he could be tried in NY for tax offenses and maybe even in DC for starting a riot.
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Absolutely right. This is the unavoidable crux in which Trump finds himself. We will see the final flails of a dying presidency in the coming days due to this fact you rightly point out.

The beauty of it is that such a potentially illegal pardon won’t ultimately mean shit on the state level. Not that they won’t try to say that it does.
 
Raoul said:
Pretty much . The only value of attempting another impeachment or invoking the 25th would be to send tacit messages to government bureaucrats and foreign governments that they should not take anything Trump does over the next 13 days seriously. This applies especially to the military, in case he attempts to start a war or use the military domestically.
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I feel if we learn from Milley et al in the coming days that Trump tried to use the military in any appreciable way domestically, that would be the tipping point for the cabinet & the 25th. Amendment.

Short of that, we won’t see such.
 
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Wednesday at Stoke said:
So is it that he has a clean slate on all crimes committed up to a certain date without even mentioning what the crime is? Otherwise even if he pardons himself on one charge or more, prosecutors can arraign him on something else. There’s a lot of room for creativity there.

Is there any precedent on this that the justice department under Merrick Garland can’t challenge in court?
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Only precedent would be Nixons pardon, which included any and all criminal activity on a federal level during his presidency. That wasn’t issued by himself though, and never challenged in court.
 
Tincanalley said:
I’m only landing in the thread and may be repeating, but... isn’t the idea to run down the clock? Once there’s a quorum in the cabinet, Trumo can assert his objection, but in the meantime, Pence stands in. So in effect starting the process would disempower him till his term runs out. Am I wrong?
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Yes it may not be so outlandish. Pence remains acting President and the Dems can drag the whole thing in congress for at least 21 days. They don't need a vote on this as it's only 13 days more to go.
 
nimic said:
It is, I'm famously an insufferable bore. And a feminist. But mostly a bore.
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I'm with you. We could be boring together.

This could be the beginning of boring friendship.

langster said:


:lol:
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I feel vaguely inclined to be happy an Ottawa company decides this - but in the end they're just like Twitter: they've decided that finally the balance between income and reputation damage has tilted too much towards the latter. Edit: I'm wrong actually; see @Zarlak's follow-up.
 
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So he can't push buttons to post on Twitter, Facebook or Instagram but he has control over nuclear weapons (although I don't think he would be allowed to launch them, that's not really the point)

But yeah....

It's insane how normalised all this shit is.
 
Raoul said:
Pretty much . The only value of attempting another impeachment or invoking the 25th would be to send tacit messages to government bureaucrats and foreign governments that they should not take anything Trump does over the next 13 days shouldn’t be taken seriously. This applies especially to the military, in case he attempts to start a war or use the military domestically.
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I'm pretty sure the Biden camp will have been in touch with the most senior military commanders, making sure they understand that Trump is not a well man, is now little short of being an totally deranged maniac, and their new commander-in-chief takes office in a matter of days now.
 
GlastonSpur said:
I'm pretty sure the Biden camp will have been in touch with the most senior military commanders, making sure they understand that Trump is not a well man, is now little short of being an totally deranged maniac, and their new commander-in-chief takes office in a matter of days now.
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From all the information available it was Pence who did all the coordinating yesterday with the DOD.
 
Foxbatt said:
From all the information available it was Pence who did all the coordinating yesterday with the DOD.
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Yes, but I was talking about the possibility of Trump issuing some crazy order in the next 13 days - like launching a nuke towards Iran. I'm pretty sure the Biden camp will have been telling the military to quietly ignore any such crazy instructions.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Yes, but I was talking about the possibility of Trump issuing some crazy order in the next 13 days - like launching a nuke towards Iran. I'm pretty sure the Biden camp will have been telling the military to quietly ignore any such crazy instructions.
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Can they ignore it?
I mean doesn't trump have sole authority to launch nukes
And even if 1 officer did refuse the command couldn't trump just have him replaced with somebody who will do it
To be clear I don't expect him to nuke somebody but I wouldn't entirely rule it out either...
Buy for the sake of not risking ww3 I wouldn't be adverse to the 25th amendment being used asap
 
sun_tzu said:
Can they ignore it?
I mean doesn't trump have sole authority to launch nukes
And even if 1 officer did refuse the command couldn't trump just have him replaced with somebody who will do it
To be clear I don't expect him to nuke somebody but I wouldn't entirely rule it out either...
Buy for the sake of not risking ww3 I wouldn't be adverse to the 25th amendment being used asap
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Technically, no. But practically they can do any number of things - e.g. pretend the order was never received or not properly verified, claim equipment malfunction ... prevaricate, delay, obstruct, confuse etc .... and meanwhile go back to Pence with this convincing evidence that the 25th needs immediate execution.
 
The Firestarter said:
Would only make sense if it could prevent reelection.
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Odin said:
I am a little worried about the end game here. Trump dishing out pardons left and right, and then as the great finale - Pence pardons Trump!

Is this a possibility?
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I think is absurd to suggest Trump leaving office with a pardon hasn't been in his plans for a very long time. Feck knows how it'll come about but we'll find out pretty soon!
 
Pence doesn't have the cajones to do anything meaningful, sure he'll do a whole huff and puff about the "American way of Democracy" and we won't be beaten and all that shite but he literally has no balls to do anything meaningful
 
WI_Red said:
I am 1000000% sure this is a deep fake or Pence just threatened a 25th
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My best guess is that Pence and McCollum put an ultimatum that he either concedes and behaves in the next two weeks or is removed from the office by the end of the week.
 
mu4c_20le said:
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Yesterday he said of the attack on the capitol that these "are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long,”

He also said he loved the supporters involved.

Now he says it was a "heinous" attack.

This complete reversal - and thus denial - of what he said only yesterday, is typical Trump. A liar and con-man, living in a fantasy world to the end.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Yesterday he said of the attack on the capitol that these "are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long,”

He also said he loved the supporters involved.

Now he says it was a "heinous" attack.

This complete reversal - and thus denial - of what he said only yesterday, is typical Trump. A liar and con-man, living in a fantasy land to the end.
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Definitely. The man's a total arsehole.

Revan said:
My best guess is that Pence and McCollum put an ultimatum that he either concedes and behaves in the next two weeks or is removed from the office by the end of the week.
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And this sounds about right!
 
mu4c_20le said:
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feck me, that's the first time he's ever made a Presidential Speech and it's his concession speech someone else clearly wrote to calm shit down. Someone has obviously sat him down and had words with him and he's scrambling like feck now.

He also still LIED in that speech when he said he called the National Guard because so many sources have said he wanted feck all to do with that call because he agreed with the terrorists. After all, he called them special people and only told them to go home through gritted teeth. Transparent as feck once more.


Edit....

See!

 
He’s never been so humble or in control of his emotions to honestly do something like this. Someone’s forced him to make this statement.

Maybe the actual threat of a Twitter ban has terrified him!
 
Are presidential pardons so airtight that a blatantly dodgy president can just give himself one before he leaves office and he is bulletproof?
 
Shane88 said:
Are presidential pardons so airtight that a blatantly dodgy president can just give himself one before he leaves office and he is bulletproof?
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There was a federal prosecutor saying he can do it but its unknown how bulletproof it'll be as there is no precedent for it. The courts will decide later on.
 
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