The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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Red Dreams said:
The office cannot protect his son.


Lets wait and see.
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Nothing can protect his son though. The minute Trump resigns he goes from unindicted co-conspirator to indicted co-conspirator. I fully expect the family to turn on itself before this one plays out.
 
Oscie said:
Nothing can protect his son though. The minute Trump resigns he goes from unindicted co-conspirator to indicted co-conspirator. I fully expect the family to turn on itself before this one plays out.
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He would obviously pardon any family members before he left office.
 
Raoul said:
He would obviously pardon any family members before he left office.
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But he can only do that if charges are brought before hand. Fair chance Mueller will either hold fire on federal charges until then or if not pass information over to the state and then Trump has absolutely no control.
 
Oscie said:
But he can only do that if charges are brought before hand. Fair chance Mueller will either hold fire on federal charges until then or if not pass information over to the state and then Trump has absolutely no control.
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He can't hold charges. He is going to charge/indict whoever the evidence allows him to while his investigation is still ongoing, then deliver a final report on all of his activities. Trump would then be able to pardon whoever he wants before leaving office through impeachment.
 
Raoul said:
He can't hold charges. He is going to charge/indict whoever the evidence allows him to while his investigation is still ongoing, then deliver a final report on all of his activities. Trump would then be able to pardon whoever he wants before leaving office through impeachment.
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Of course he can hold charges. He is under no obligation to immediately charge someone the moment he feels he has the evidence to do so. It's pretty obvious he's been holding out on charges relating to the family for some time as he continues to build water-tight cases. Mueller isn't going to announce federal charges and be completely taken aback by Trump's pardons, say "Gee, shucks" and quietly fade into the background. He knows the risk of Trump shutting everything down which is why everything is slow, methodical and why I believe charges brought will be both federal and also ensuring relevant state DA's have enough ammo to bring charges at state level that'll stick too.
 
Oscie said:
Of course he can hold charges. He is under no obligation to immediately charge someone the moment he feels he has the evidence to do so. It's pretty obvious he's been holding out on charges relating to the family for some time as he continues to build water-tight cases. Mueller isn't going to announce federal charges and be completely taken aback by Trump's pardons, say "Gee, shucks" and quietly fade into the background. He knows the risk of Trump shutting everything down which is why everything is slow, methodical and why I believe charges brought will be both federal and also ensuring relevant state DA's have enough ammo to bring charges at state level that'll stick too.
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He can't hold charges once he issues his report since he would no longer be special counsel anymore. At that point, whatever results of his investigation are still on the table revert back to the DOJ to adjudicate. If for instance Mueller's final report is damning and results in Trump's impeachment, there would still be enough time for Trump to pardon people while the impeachment process was being deliberated. If Pence were to then replace Trump then he could pardon him just as Ford pardoned Nixon before he could be indicted.
 
He has decided to go golfing today as the country mourns the death of McCain. The guy has no class whatsoever.
 
Oscie said:
Of course he can hold charges. He is under no obligation to immediately charge someone the moment he feels he has the evidence to do so. It's pretty obvious he's been holding out on charges relating to the family for some time as he continues to build water-tight cases. Mueller isn't going to announce federal charges and be completely taken aback by Trump's pardons, say "Gee, shucks" and quietly fade into the background. He knows the risk of Trump shutting everything down which is why everything is slow, methodical and why I believe charges brought will be both federal and also ensuring relevant state DA's have enough ammo to bring charges at state level that'll stick too.
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I think Mueller is focused on completing his investigation. Especially those that relate to Russia and Treason. The highest crimes.

I suspect Trump will confess and include all involved if he and his family are granted immunity subject to him resigning of course. Think Pence is in deep shit too.

Don't expect Republicans to throw themselves on the sword for him. The end is near.
I just hope it will come out after the mid-terms.
 
Raoul said:
He can't hold charges once he issues his report since he would no longer be special counsel anymore. At that point, whatever results of his investigation are still on the table revert back to the DOJ to adjudicate. If for instance Mueller's final report is damning and results in Trump's impeachment, there would still be enough time for Trump to pardon people while the impeachment process was being deliberated. If Pence were to then replace Trump then he could pardon him just as Ford pardoned Nixon before he could be indicted.
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I didn't realise anyone suggested he would issue his report before he was ready to bring charges. Saying Mueller may hold fire on charges and time them to maximise the chances of conviction (and also hopefully minimise the risk of pardons) isn't the same as suggesting he thinks he'll still be able to bring charges after he issues his report.
 
Raoul said:
He can't hold charges once he issues his report since he would no longer be special counsel anymore. At that point, whatever results of his investigation are still on the table revert back to the DOJ to adjudicate. If for instance Mueller's final report is damning and results in Trump's impeachment, there would still be enough time for Trump to pardon people while the impeachment process was being deliberated. If Pence were to then replace Trump then he could pardon him just as Ford pardoned Nixon before he could be indicted.
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Pence is not going to pardon treason which is the ultimate goal of this investigation.

Mueller knows that is what it is. he wants the proof.
 
Red Dreams said:
Pence is not going to pardon treason which is the ultimate goal of this investigation.

Mueller knows that is what it is. he wants the proof.
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Conspiracy and obstruction are the worst things Trump could go down for. Pence would almost surely pardon him since (in his own mind) he would want Trump's rowdy base to galvanize behind him for his own Presidency as well as for 2020.
 
In a little over 2 years there's a fair chance the prospect of pardons will be off the table. Unless there is a time scale on the investigation I'm not aware of why would anyone with above Homer Simpson level of intellect bring federal charges at a time when they're almost guaranteed to be wiped off the slate unless there was a plan B. The average length of special counsel investigations is 904 days, we're not even 500 days into this one.
 
Red Dreams said:
Trump considering resigning it seems.

Perhaps to cut a deal as his "wonderful son" has perjured himself and all the piled up shit is going to hit the fan.
But hopefully this deal will drag on until the mid-terms are over and the Dems can get all the stuff on Pence too.

That way the Speaker can become president without having to wait another 2 years.

I hope grandma Pelosi is outvoted and we get a True progressive.
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I was wondering what you got that from. Or is it just what you were hoping?
 
Oscie said:
In a little over 2 years there's a fair chance the prospect of pardons will be off the table. Unless there is a time scale on the investigation I'm not aware of why would anyone with above Homer Simpson level of intellect bring federal charges at a time when they're almost guaranteed to be wiped off the slate. The average length of special counsel investigations is 904, we're not even 500 days into this one.
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This investigation isn't likely to last much longer since its pretty obvious Mueller has dealt with every one of the main players with the exception of Stone, Kushner, and Don Jr...and eventually Trump.

Mueller is smart enough to know that indicting Trump's family members should come at the very end since Trump may pardon them and or attempt to shut down the investigation, which means he (Mueller) would be wise to complete 95% of the investigation since even if it were to get shut down, the DOJ would then by statute still be obliged to pursue all charges on the table.
 
Raoul said:
This investigation isn't likely to last much longer since its pretty obvious Mueller has dealt with every one of the main players with the exception of Stone, Kushner, and Don Jr...and eventually Trump.

Mueller is smart enough to know that indicting Trump's family members should come at the very end since Trump may pardon them and or attempt to shut down the investigation, which means he (Mueller) would be wise to complete 95% of the investigation since even if it were to get shut down, the DOJ would then by statute still be obliged to pursue all charges on the table.
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The investigation seems to have scarcely touched on its central purpose so far, namely that of Russian collusion. I would disagree with any conclusion that it's nearing the end. Mueller's still working through the fat.
 
Oscie said:
The investigation seems to have scarcely touched on its central purpose so far, namely that of Russian collusion. I would disagree with any conclusion that it's nearing the end. Mueller's still working through the fat.
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They've already dealt with all the players and indicted a boatload of Russians. The only primary players on collusion would be Trump, his son, and less prominently, Kushner. That means they are closer to wrapping up as long as Mueller and Trump don't get into a legal handbags about Trump himself testifying, which could potentially litigate all the way up to SCOTUS. Other than that, I would imagine they could be done in a few months.
 
Raoul said:
Conspiracy and obstruction are the worst things Trump could go down for. Pence would almost surely pardon him since (in his own mind) he would want Trump's rowdy base to galvanize behind him for his own Presidency as well as for 2020.
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His finance dealings with Russian gangsters. Deutsche bank. Ties him to Putin.
quid pro quo.

This will all come out . Mueller is not going to let this go.
 
Red Dreams said:
They were discussing this on MSNBC.
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The resignation thing is a long shot imo. For that to happen, Mueller's final report would have to be so damning that Trump would then attempt to negotiate a settlement where he resigned immediately in exchange for an unconditional pardon from his successor. With Trump being the fighter he is, I seriously doubt he would agree to something like that unless the facts were so overwhelming to where he thought there was no possible way for him to litigate his way out of staying.
 
Raoul said:
The resignation thing is a long shot imo. For that to happen, Mueller's final report would have to be so damning that Trump would then attempt to negotiate a settlement where he resigned immediately in exchange for an unconditional pardon from his successor. With Trump being the fighter he is, I seriously doubt he would agree to something like that unless the facts were so overwhelming to where he thought there was no possible way for him to litigate his way out of staying.
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Could trump just classify /fully redact the report?
 
sun_tzu said:
Could trump just classify /fully redact the report?
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He could try, but the very act of attempting to modify or conceal the results would of course be viewed as yet another attempt to obstruct justice. His only shot is to allow the investigation to conclude and launch a massive propaganda campaign against it during and after to lessen the public's perception of his guilt.
 
fishfingers15 said:
There's so much content in here that it will be a trilogy
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At least one scandal a day for well over two years? And after a lifetime of grifting and ripping people off and hanging around with mobsters? This will be a series for sure. There's no fecking way a film could do it justice.
 
Raoul said:
Half of the poll was done before the calamitous Manafort and Cohen news on Tuesday.
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Between Aug. 18 and Aug. 22 — the day after the news involving former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort and former Trump attorney Michael Cohen — the president's approval rating stood at 46 percent approve, 51 percent disapprove.



In a separate NBC/WSJ survey, conducted Aug. 22 through Aug. 25, Trump's approval rating was 44 percent approve and 52 percent disapprove. That's within the poll's margin of error.
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Raoul said:
He could try, but the very act of attempting to modify or conceal the results would of course be viewed as yet another attempt to obstruct justice. His only shot is to allow the investigation to conclude and launch a massive propaganda campaign against it during and after to lessen the public's perception of his guilt.
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He started the moment it started. Whatever the outcome is, a good chunk of his followers will cry witch hunt and deep state.
 
Rob said:
He started the moment the it started. Whatever the outcome is, a good chunk of his followers will cry witch hunt and deep state.
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100% they will. He has sucesfully brainwashed a reasonably large percentage of the US public. He is 100% a cult leader, and as I've said before, I worry how it will all end as he and they won't go quietly.
 
langster said:
100% they will. He has sucesfully brainwashed a reasonably large percentage of the US public. He is 100% a cult leader, and as I've said before, I worry how it will all end as he and they won't go quietly.
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Don't know any Americans, but it certainly looks that way when you glance at social media or hear some maga enthusiasts being interviewed.

It's a frightening prospect and much will depend on his rethoric if it comes to an actual impeachment.
 
Trump coloured in the flag wrong, added a blue stripe. The guy must have Alzheimer's, there's no way he's that stupid.
 
Raoul said:
The resignation thing is a long shot imo. For that to happen, Mueller's final report would have to be so damning that Trump would then attempt to negotiate a settlement where he resigned immediately in exchange for an unconditional pardon from his successor. With Trump being the fighter he is, I seriously doubt he would agree to something like that unless the facts were so overwhelming to where he thought there was no possible way for him to litigate his way out of staying.
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Mueller has no choice but to follow the money.
Why did the Russians help him? What does Putin have on him?
How much of the country has Trump sold to Putin.

When Trump became president, Putin won teh lottery a thousand times over. To actually own the American president.
Mueller is an American patriot. He will do what is needed. He has no choice.
From the final report the Democrats will pursue everyone in Congress who aided him.

It is a house of cards.

Many from Pence on down are going to be implicated. Its a matter of how deeply. Many will see prison time.

Treason is treason.
 
He won't resign but don't be surprised if he's suddenly replaced by Christopher Plummer around mid 2019
 
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