The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
- Status
At your relatively small inaugurarion
Straight from chapter one, page one of the ‘How to mock Trump’ manual.
Straight from chapter one, page one of the ‘How to mock Trump’ manual.
Nope sorry, going to need you to justify that wild statement right there.
Swap "fundamental building block of society" - which, in fairness, is a hopelessly vague statement - with "a (conscious) guiding principle for the majority of the population" and it seems pretty straightforward to me.
"Pay for the wall. Thanks!"
Great English there, Don: 'I look very much forward...' Sheesh...
Obradi, obrador, la la la life goes on
It may seem straightforward at you, but wild claims require evidence. On what exactly are you basing your theory?
Given most people would link objectivity with Kant and Locke, some might argue stretching back to Descartes and building on, but clearly distinct from, ancient Greek philosophy, I didn't think it was all that wild a claim. Particularly given that in most parts of the world, pre-Enlightenment, it was only a subject among intellectuals and various other forms of elite classes, and not typically the main topic of conversation among peasants...who for a significant chunk of time were the majority of the adult population...but, maybe you can educate me? I gather you're looking at this from a very different position. Although I'm not convinced that particular tangent is of interest to many in this particular thread.
I think I get what you’re saying...
Pre-scientific method and all that is when people relied more on religious belief, get feeling, “logic/reason” over empirical evidence, etc.
You could make a claim, and if you defended it well enough with persuasive oratory or people thought it made sense to them, actually proving it wasn’t necessary.
Personally I prefer the undeniable objective truths of trial by fire. 
Essentially yeah. We think of it as baked into how we naturally perceive the world but it really isn't - it took centuries of great minds studying it, articulating it and then embedding it into a lot of the infrastructure that governs modern society for it to trickle down through society. And I think we take it for granted that everyone thinks about the world that way now. Postmodernism organises around some basic principles which challenge things like objective reality, and while that's still something only a small portion of society would align themselves with, it underlines the fragility of it all when intellectuals in some of the core pillars of modern society are seriously debating it.
It's entirely reasonable to think that there are people who are sceptical of the basic idea of objectivity without being the sort of person that spends years studying literature and articulating their philosophy on life, and it just seems really blatant to me that Trump is connecting with people who don't view the world in that way. And there's a lot.
I was just curious if people know many people who think that way. I've never chatted about it explicitly but I'm fairly certain I work with folk who just don't think there is such a thing as objective truth.
I guess you could say I know hundreds of people who think that way considering where I am from.
You can present all the factual information in the world to some people and they’ll dismiss it as if it were a comic book because it disagrees with their faith.
That’s objective vs subjective truth in a nutshell.
If a strong democratic wave does not occur during the midterms , I am afraid this country will have reached the point of no return, at least for decades to come.
Or until economic disaster
Or war.
Nah, we’re more likely to keep the party in power in power awhile during a war.
I’m just not sure that you can really describe older religion based societies as not being based on objective truth. Back when belief was so much stronger and people simply didn’t have scientific explanations for why things happened, concepts that we’d consider to be non-objective today formed their reality. Not because they were willing to just believe ideas that couldn’t be proven, but because if you grow up in a society where god is 100% absolute truth and power, then that is simply a fact to you, and reinforced by everyone you know and every aspect of your society.
At the same time, people were much more grounded in reality than we are today, because their world view was significantly smaller. For the vast bulk of the population, that means far less abstract concepts to process and much more connection to the things they see and experience.
That’s my theory of the evening anyway.
There has been talk of American decline for years with the economic rise of China and others. Trump is just speeding things up.
Well yeah, the writing was always on the wall for the American century, but I don’t think anyone seriously expected them to go running head first into it.
Until the flags start being flown home.
There will still be people who will find themselves with even less money than they have right now, working in a squalid shithole fighting with fifty other people for the same zero hours contract job, returning to their rented one bedroom home with a family of four - two of which now have huge medical bills to pay and another is being taught at a run down school with textbooks from 1996 - stretching out a meal for two between all of them and then staring at the bare space where a 21” TV once sat for hours on end before jumping on the same decrepit bus that they always do to go through the same day all over again.
And they’ll still say that Trump made America Great again because their entire neighbourhood will be completely white.
Ah, once you start speaking out against the war, the GOP will start up the “you’re against the troops” mantra again.
You’re quite right, bud. No denying that.
Is it possible for us all to just call “Mulligan” on this President? It still pains me thinking that the Wikipedia of ten years (trademarked by me) will have an openly racist bigot elected straight after the first black President.
You and me both. History rhymes man. Reconstruction was followed by Jim Crow
It's the natural response. Indeed, running Trump vs. Hillary Clinton after Obama's terms was the only course of action that had a chance of winning. Is it sick and twisted? Undoubtedly, but history shows us that reaction often follows revolutionary moments.
Its real. You can figure out their target audience -- two payments of 19.95!!
You have just described most of the western world which has largely been under left leaning governments for at least the last 3 generations.
Both left and right leaning governments have good and bad ideas, but this myth that the left does anything, or is the only one, for the poor or working class is laughable.
I've given up on the USA. I'm making plans to leave within the next few years. I'm gambling that Europe can disassociate themselves from the US and find some common unity despite the efforts of Putin, and wistfully hoping that the UK turns itself around from Brexit.
What's the main driver in wanting to leave ?
It's not a nice place to live anymore.
its been under neoliberal governments. neoliberalism has failed.
The right does do stuff for poor people tbf, i.e exploit their labour and shorten their lives.
Not really. The main break in the UK from Tory government in the last 40 years was Labour's 13 years in power, which were centrist at best. US has veered from centre to right, similar can be said for Germany, France etc, albeit the US right is more extreme.
I'm cleaning up and moving in 2020. Maybe even sooner if my visa extension is denied. My visa expires on the 6th of July
I'm cleaning up and moving in 2020. Maybe even sooner if my visa extension is denied. My visa expires on the 6th of July
This year?
I'm cleaning up and moving in 2020. Maybe even sooner if my visa extension is denied. My visa expires on the 6th of July
At least we have options. Think about those poor feckers who have to endure.
Yeah, this Friday. I just saw the update that the case has been sent to USCIS today on overnight, which means they will receive it tomorrow. July 4th being a national holiday, they might take it on July 5th and give me the petition receipt on 6th, which is the absolute borderline. It's being filed on normal mode, so a result is expected in three to six months.
Fair point
- Status