The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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DiseaseOfTheAge said:
'Not remotely fun fact' - Me and my partner have really struggled to find comedy we can listen to without finding it too dark, since said bloke won the thing.

I think our sense of humour was broken by Donald Trump. It all became too real.
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After this election the humor on Veep seems dry.
 
The Firestarter said:
Thank you for proving my argument. That's why a no-fly zone will be accepted. And "Russian army is one of the best on the planet" : maybe, but no match for NATO . Neither technologically, nor economically. And the Russian are fully aware of this.
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You have a very interesting sense of logic. In your argument it's NATO that always gets their way. But in a full blown conflict each side has a lot to lose, and if it comes to the unthinkable, we all will lose everything. In the end, both sides will have to make consessions, that's the only way to move forward. The problem with the US is that they've been on top for so long, they have forgotten there are other big players out there that want their inerests taken into consideration.
 
Will Absolute said:
Turkey shot down a Russian plane that violated its air space. It was entitled to do so within the usual norms. Russia famously shot down an American U2 spy plane during the height of the cold war in 1960 - the US didn't squawk.

Russian planes in the skies of Syria are flying with the permission of the Syrian government. NATO are the intruders. A game of chicken in those circumstances would be foolhardy.
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The exact circumstances about how and for how long that occurred are very debatable. As for the spy plane: no one would have expected any different reaction, since the purpose of that plane is to collect intelligence deep within enemy territory. Unlike the Russian fighter, which was conducting bombing runs,
Raoul said:
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antihenry said:
You have a very interesting sense of logic. In your argument it's NATO that always gets their way. But in a full blown conflict each side has a lot to lose, and if it comes to the unthinkable, we all will lose everything. In the end, both sides will have to make consessions, that's the only way to move forward. The problem with the US is that they've been on top for so long, they have forgotten there are other big players out there that want their inerests taken into consideration.
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Like it or not, the stronger more often than not get what they want. But Russia is getting away with a lot of things ias well,t seems. Even if it was only Crimea, its pretty huge IMO.
 
Trump has cancelled his Thursday press conference after his team were told about Eichenwald's investigation in to Trump's conflicts of interests, which is being published today.

Must be some damning stuff in the report. My respect for Eichenwald has gone up considerably since the election.
 
Fergies Gum said:
Trump has cancelled his Thursday press conference after his team were told about Eichenwald's investigation in to Trump's conflicts of interests, which is being published today.

Must be some damning stuff in the report. My respect for Eichenwald has gone up considerably since the election.
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Cal? said:
I'm saying Russia will back down if the US take a strong stance like Hillary proposed.
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In Syria? I don't think it will. It views Syria as being too strategically important imo. It's a longstanding Russian base for nuclear submarines. They're not about to just back down.
 
So much of the so-called "lobbyists" in his administration. But that was the problem with Clinton, wasn't it?
 
Confirmed now.
Surprising how little Yanks seem to care about, their leaders being closely linked with Putin.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
In Syria? I don't think it will. It views Syria as being too strategically important imo. It's a longstanding Russian base for nuclear submarines. They're not about to just back down.
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The bolded part is not true. It is a repair and maintenance facility, that was until recently minimally manned.
 
The Firestarter said:
Yes, they now have plans to upgrade it. But it has never been a strategic submarine base.
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Well, it's been a strategic port since '71 -- and nuclear armed subs do move in and out of its complex. The Russians view it as important because of its access to the Mediterranean.

With entanglements such as the above, I can't see Russia being as blasé about the whole no fly zone issue as some expect.
 
http://truepundit.com/cia-washingto...nt-to-trump-election-hacking-is-outright-lie/

The Central Intelligence Agency is declaring the Washington Post’s much-hyped story linking the Russian government to hacking the presidential election to help Donald Trump an “outright lie,” according to CIA personnel with direct knowledge of the case.

The Washington Post, in a front-page splash on Friday, fingered the CIA for allegedly confirming the wild rumors of Russian hacking that were concocted and spread by Democratic lawmakers for months preceding the election and the weeks since the GOP win. The Washington Post’s story, however, contained no CIA sources and in fact, no credible U.S. intelligence agency sources whatsoever. Instead, it hinged on what unnamed lawmakers had supposedly been told by unidentified, supposed CIA-linked sources in “secret” briefings: That the CIA had developed proof the Russian state waged an orchestrated campaign to destabilize the U.S. election to benefit GOP-candidate Trump.

“It’s an outright lie,” a CIA analyst divulged to True Pundit. “There’s nothing definitive like that. There are leads from activity originating in Finland, Italy, Norway, Sweden, Britain, France, China and Russia.”

Multiple CIA sources are now denouncing the Washington Post for knowingly reporting misleading national security intelligence. Intelligence insiders said no one in the Agency or in the FBI, who is running at least one parallel inquiry, has ruled out a possible internal leak within the Democratic National Committee from actor(s) inside the United States who funneled private DNC emails to Wikileaks.

On the rabid Sunday morning political talk show circuit yesterday, fueled by the Washington Post’s thinly-sourced yet highly-lauded reporting, Sen. John McCain implored President Elect Trump to look at the CIA-Russian information which he said was credible. McCain, however, as the Senate Armed Services Committee chairman, had strangely never publicly disseminated such intelligence prior to Sunday. And no other elected officials have stepped up to echo his narrative or that of the Washington Post.

CIA and intelligence sources, however, quickly countered McCain’s claims as speculative at best, saying his information is simply not accurate and he, as the Arizona senator has done previously, was grandstanding for the media without knowing key facts.

“If he (McCain) in fact is being told that information, it is bad information,” a CIA source said, pondering whether McCain had perhaps been briefed by outgoing CIA Director John Brennan or his loyal Agency underlings. Multiple sources said Brennan and his inner circle in the Agency could not be trusted to disseminate any true intelligence, especially in their final days on the job, without tainting raw data with political ideologies that parallel their White House boss.

Trump has already named Kansas Congressman Mike Pompeo as Brennan’s successor and CIA personnel anxiously anticipate Brennan’s departure, sources said. (But you won’t read about that in the Washington Post.)

Could the Russian state be linked to hacking to influence the 2016 U.S. election? Intelligence analysts, again, reiterate there is no overwhelming current evidence to definitively link any government to such rogue actions.

CIA personnel said any official information released by Brennan or the White House on this issue prior to President Barack Obama’s departure from office should be discounted and tuned out as partisan “white noise.”

The CIA sources’ collective assessment that the Washington Post purposely and brutally misrepresented the CIA’s findings is the third blow to the embattled newspaper in the last week, having been busted writing two other high profile fake stories on national security that were quickly proven to be problematic and ultimately bogus.
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Irwin said:
http://truepundit.com/cia-washingto...nt-to-trump-election-hacking-is-outright-lie/
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Multiple CIA sources are now denouncing the Washington Post for knowingly reporting misleading national security intelligence. Intelligence insiders said no one in the Agency or in the FBI, who is running at least one parallel inquiry, has ruled out a possible internal leak within the Democratic National Committee from actor(s) inside the United States who funneled private DNC emails to Wikileaks.
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This would be interesting on a number of levels if true. But I'd still like a more solid source than True Pundit, who I've never heard of.

Anyway, from the Post:

Third, we will never know for sure if Russian espionage caused Trump to win. With Clinton losing by an 80,000-vote margin in three key states, everything — her poor messaging, her consistently bungled response to the email controversy, FBI Director James B. Comey’s untimely letter — can be posited as the reason she lost. A hypothetical outcome minus Russian involvement is not just unknown, it is unknowable.
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Correct.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
This would be interesting on a number of levels if true. But I'd still like a more solid source than True Pundit, who I've never heard of.
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They're a legit independent media outlet. Wikileaks has quoted TruePundit in the past. I'll edit it in here once I figure out how to paste tweets. It's not definitive but it's more credible than the Washington Post.

Anyway, from the Post:

Correct.
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The Washington Post has been proven by the e-mail leaks to have been colluding with the DNC. Just a couple of weeks ago they wrote an article declaring many independent media outlets as "Fake News" which they then had to retract after being roundly mocked. The Washington Post is a propaganda arm of the establishment.

https://www.rt.com/usa/369598-washington-post-fake-propaganda/
 
Irwin said:
They're a legit independent media outlet. Wikileaks has quoted TruePundit in the past. I'll edit it in here once I figure out how to paste tweets. It's not definitive but it's more credible than the Washington Post.



The Washington Post has been proven by the e-mail leaks to have been colluding with the DNC. Just a couple of weeks ago they wrote an article declaring many independent media outlets as "Fake News" which they then had to retract after being roundly mocked. The Washington Post is a propaganda arm of the establishment.

https://www.rt.com/usa/369598-washington-post-fake-propaganda/
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RT is not a credible source of information. It is Putin's Propaganda channel to the western world. You are essentially using a fake news site to advance your argument.
 
Irwin said:
They're a legit independent media outlet. Wikileaks has quoted TruePundit in the past. I'll edit it in here once I figure out how to paste tweets. It's not definitive but it's more credible than the Washington Post.



The Washington Post has been proven by the e-mail leaks to have been colluding with the DNC. Just a couple of weeks ago they wrote an article declaring many independent media outlets as "Fake News" which they then had to retract after being roundly mocked. The Washington Post is a propaganda arm of the establishment.

https://www.rt.com/usa/369598-washington-post-fake-propaganda/
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:lol:
 
Raoul said:
RT is not a credible source of information. It is Putin's Propaganda channel to the western world. You are essentially using a fake news site to advance your argument.
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What? The Washington Post issued the retraction themselves. You don't need to go to RT. This "fake news" narrative is mainstream propaganda.
 
Irwin said:
The Washington Post has been proven by the e-mail leaks to have been colluding with the DNC. Just a couple of weeks ago they wrote an article declaring many independent media outlets as "Fake News" which they then had to retract after being roundly mocked. The Washington Post is a propaganda arm of the establishment.
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Well it is and it isn't. Firstly, there isn't a single establishment agenda -- there are at least two, and more than likely, many thousands more. The Post has the benefit of being an American newspaper, so any collusion will be more implicit and subconscious than explicit and conspiratorial.

It has a Dem leaning view, but is also quite conservative on a number of issues. In other words, it's very difficult to paint the Washington Post as being an agent of any one political movement or cause. It's a conglomeration of thousands, and often antithetical in nature.
 
Washington Post is not beyond reproach - but, let's not lump it in with motherjones and what not. This is a serious paper with a ton of integrity, credibility and cache.
 
Irwin said:
What? The Washington Post issued the retraction themselves. You don't need to go to RT. This "fake news" narrative is mainstream propaganda.
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Then simply link directly to the source rather than send us to fringe or fake news sites.
 
I have read that retraction article, and the surrounding points. Essentially, the Post used a fringe group with less than scientific operating methods as a source in an article which accused Russia of disseminating propaganda. It was a dubious claim, as they managed to paint everyone as a Russian sympathizer.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
I have read that retraction article, and the surrounding points. Essentially, the Post used a fringe group with less than scientific operating methods as a source in an article which accused Russia of disseminating propaganda. It was a dubious claim, as they managed to paint everyone as a Russian sympathizer.
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They blacklisted over 200 independent news outlets as "Fake News" and quickly started backtracking.
 
Irwin said:
They blacklisted over 200 independent news outlets as "Fake News" and quickly started backtracking.
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It was PropOrNot's report that identified what it calls "the list" of 200 offending sites. Outlets as diverse as AntiWar.com, LewRockwell.com and the Ron Paul Institute were described as either knowingly directed by Russian intelligence, or "useful idiots" who unwittingly did the bidding of foreign masters
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Ironically, I think this is probably true.

The useful idiot claim, that is. These sites are "alt" for a very simple reason, they present a different account than the mainstream. Russia is demonized in many mainstream American news outlets, but probably lauded in roughly equal measure by alt sources in reaction. The motive has nothing to do with Russia at a primary level, it has to do with presenting a different account (a niche in the market) of recent history. Yet the product will often be for whatever the establishment is against.
 
DenisIrwin said:
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Wow! This isn't "fake news" this isn't paranoia, it's not a conspiracy theory, it's just plain facts about where The Moron Elect owes money, and whom he is indebted to, and it shows SERIOUS conflicts of interest that really have to be addressed before he takes office.
 
Irwin said:
What? The Washington Post issued the retraction themselves. You don't need to go to RT. This "fake news" narrative is mainstream propaganda.
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No it isn't. There are quite literally news websites out there designed for the sole purpose of spreading news which doesn't have any basis in true, ie the Pizzagate scandal. Whether it's being overplayed or not is another thing (as is deciding which websites go in or not) but there's no doubt fake news exists.
 
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