The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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The no fly zone proposal was daft. The Russians are established in the region and the West waltzing in and telling them not to fly their planes would be a provocation. Trying to force a leader like Putin to back down with a huge loss of face is a good way to start a war.
And besides if we have a war against Russia and they start losing (we can't forget they don't give 2 flying flies to human life's) and finally we are able to move in their territory after countries like Poland are basically destroyed, they will fight with honor until we walk in Moscow? WW2 didn't teach any lesson to a lot of people I see.
 
They would have no other choice but accept it. The other option is limited conventional war with NATO which they would lose. Not every conflict means automatic escalation to the nuclear option.

Nonsense. Neither NATO nor Russia would be willing to go to war with each other over Syria. And what exactly do you mean by a limited conventional war? Russian army is one of the best on the planet and I doubt European politicians would relish the prospect of explaining their electorate why it is a good idea to fight against Russians.
 
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The no fly zone proposal was daft. The Russians are established in the region and the West waltzing in and telling them not to fly their planes would be a provocation. Trying to force a leader like Putin to back down with a huge loss of face is a good way to start a war.

I do think that there's an element of 'first power to the crisis owns it', and the adversary will at most try to subversive counters. So I don't believe there's a threat strong enough to make the Russians leave Syria. But I don't think that 'owning' the crisis is necessarily a good thing, see Vietnam and Afghanistan.
 
I do think that there's an element of 'first power to the crisis owns it', and the adversary will at most try to subversive counters. So I don't believe there's a threat strong enough to make the Russians leave Syria. But I don't think that 'owning' the crisis is necessarily a good thing, see Vietnam and Afghanistan.

Well, now that America is approaching oil self-sufficiency, it's hard to see what strategic interest it has in Syria or the rest of the Middle East at this point. It's in Europe's backyard and they still need the oil so, properly speaking, they should be dealing with it.
 
Well, now that America is approaching oil self-sufficiency, it's hard to see what strategic interest it has in Syria or the rest of the Middle East at this point. It's in Europe's backyard and they still need the oil so, properly speaking, they should be dealing with it.
Probably too close to the Suez for comfort. Control that canal and you own the world's shipping. Even without oil, there's value there. Britain's last proper act as a world power was to presume upon US backing and try to take it back from the recent nationalist government (with the French and Israelis).
 
Also, it's natural for the US to want to rebuff any Russian opportunism in the region. If Assad were to win, backed heavily by Russia, then Russia becomes more powerful in the region. Not something the US would want.
 
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:lol: The Moron has upset NBC, the channel The Apprentice is shown on.



Another flip flop and another attack on American Businesses, wiping $3.5bn off their stock with one tweet. Is he shorting stocks?
 
This. The fact is China are a much more dangerous proposition than Russia nowadays. Whilst the Russians are still ahead (slightly) in terms of technology and nukes, China more than makes up for it with their financial power.

Also, China has many more disputes with US allies than Russia currently do, and there are signs they can negotiate some kind of solution with Japan over the northern territories but there's no solution at all with the Senkakus.

and we are stupidly trading with them. they need us to buy their junk.
who else is going to buy them?
So what he took a phone call from Taiwan.
We have not provoked them militarily yet.
 
Nonsense. Neither NATO nor Russia would be willing to go to war with each other over Syria. And what exactly do you mean by a limited conventional war? Russian army is one of the best on the planet and I doubt European politicians would relish the prospect of explaining their electorate why it is a good idea to fight against Russians.

Thank you for proving my argument. That's why a no-fly zone will be accepted. And "Russian army is one of the best on the planet" : maybe, but no match for NATO . Neither technologically, nor economically. And the Russian are fully aware of this.
 
The no fly zone proposal was daft. The Russians are established in the region and the West waltzing in and telling them not to fly their planes would be a provocation. Trying to force a leader like Putin to back down with a huge loss of face is a good way to start a war.
Like he saved face when Turkey shot one of his jets down?
 
and we are stupidly trading with them. they need us to buy their junk.
who else is going to buy them?
So what he took a phone call from Taiwan.
We have not provoked them militarily yet.
You already did that over the summer sending a carrier group into the South China Sea.
 
You already did that over the summer sending a carrier group into the South China Sea.

That has been an on going back and forth. We have been talking to them to head off any further issues. And they did put it down to Trump's inexperience.
So are you saying we should provoke Russia with a no fly zone just so we can have a few more irons in the fire?
We are not talking to Russia. That is the problem.
 
I thought they could vote for who they like but they would face a fine?

I had no idea.. But reading that article suggests they cant by law.
Either way, Trump won and he should be the next president. Any challenges to the system should have been made before the elections. Not now.. after the voting

It varies from state to state. Some just get a fine but I heard one of the Electora Colleges delegates from Michigan say, that all these people who are trying to convince him to not vote for Trump, should read the rules. If he was to vote for anyone other than Trump, they would just replace him with an alternative delegate who would vote for Trump. So you would have to check each of the 50 states to see what their rules are to answer your question.
 
You already did that over the summer sending a carrier group into the South China Sea.

I am the only one that does not have a problem with Trump talking tough to China? Somebody has to keep them in check or even tally Japan and South Korea will be under threat.
 
That has been an on going back and forth. We have been talking to them to head off any further issues. And they did put it down to Trump's inexperience.
So are you saying we should provoke Russia with a no fly zone just so we can have a few more irons in the fire?
We are not talking to Russia. That is the problem.
I'm saying Russia will back down if the US take a strong stance like Hillary proposed.

I am the only one that does not have a problem with Trump talking tough to China? Somebody has to keep them in check or even tally Japan and South Korea will be under threat.
Keeping them in check and deliberately provoking them are very different things, installing THAAD in Japan/Korea is keeping them in check; questioning the so called one-China policy is going against decades of accepted behavior.
 
I am the only one that does not have a problem with Trump talking tough to China? Somebody has to keep them in check or even tally Japan and South Korea will be under threat.

It is not a case of talking tough to them.
I don't think they should be dictating anything to us. In the long term the "One China" policy will happen. It suits both China and Taiwan for the time being to leave things as they are.
We are not going to war over Taiwan. Taking a phone call frrom Taiwan was unexpected is all. Think this has not been done by recent presidents. That was the issue.
 
I'm saying Russia will back down if the US take a strong stance like Hillary proposed.


Keeping them in check and deliberately provoking them are very different things, installing THAAD in Japan/Korea is keeping them in check; questioning the so called one-China policy is going against decades of accepted behavior.

Hillary is a neo-con idiot.

What reason do we have to provoke Russia? Syria?
send troops there?

I don't see anything wrong with the phone call, other than it revealed what a numpty Trump is.
 
It is not a case of talking tough to them.
I don't think they should be dictating anything to us. In the long term the "One China" policy will happen. It suits both China and Taiwan for the time being to leave things as they are.
We are not going to war over Taiwan. Taking a phone call frrom Taiwan was unexpected is all. Think this has not been done by recent presidents. That was the issue.
It's not the call that's the problem, it's what he said afterwards.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/12/politics/china-trump-one-china-reaction/

Hillary is a neo-con idiot.

What reason do we have to provoke Russia? Syria?
send troops there?

I don't see anything wrong with the phone call, other than it revealed what a numpty Trump is.
Removing al-Assad
 
It's not the call that's the problem, it's what he said afterwards.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/12/politics/china-trump-one-china-reaction/


Removing al-Assad

Assad being gone is not the issue. It is how we have been going about it that has been questioned. Because we are not willing to send troops, it has been suggested we are arming associates of ISIS and Al-Queda to do the fighting, the very same people we are fighting in Iraq. This has been mentionedd in various news reports. A no-fly zone brings us into direct conflict with Russia, with whom we have not been willing to talk. The 3 stooges, Hillary, Graham and Mccain may want this, but most others do not want another way to get into another useless war. Certainly not the American people.

China needs to pipe down. We are still happy to buy their junk and they are happy to sell it. That really is the core of our reelationship. And in the end they need us more than we need them. Nothing will come of this other than bluster.
 
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Both political parties are agents for Corporations.
If you are talking about Hillary and Trump, yes Trump is a vacuum. But Hillary is no savy politician either. (her stupidity of the email server) She is a power hungry charlatan.
No, I mean neo-cons are Republicans.
 
Assad being gone is not the issue. It is how we have been going about it that has been questioned. Because we are not willing to send troops, it has been suggested we are arming associates of ISIS and Al-Queda to do the fighting, the very same people we are fighting in Iraq. This has been mentionedd in various news reports. A no-fly zone brings us into direct conflict with Russia, with whom we have not been willing to talk. The 3 stooges, Hillary, Graham and Mccain may want this, but most others do not want another way to get into another useless war. Certainly not the American people.

China needs to pipe down. We are still happy to buy their junk and they are happy to sell it. That really is the core of our reelationship. And in the end they need us more than we need them. Nothing will come of this other than bluster.

The contradiction from paragraph 1 to 2 is astounding. Isolationist in one, expansionist in the other.
 
There a logical reason for this? Or just a misunderstanding somewhere?

 
There a logical reason for this? Or just a misunderstanding somewhere?



I don't think that's right. I'm checking out the trades and there were very small sized trades (about $73k total) at 8:17 and 8:20, looks like buying because the price went up a bit, and all around the $259 level the stock had closed at on Friday.

If anyone did anything, they would've done it Friday. When there's no news around a stock (either quarterly results release or other) there is usually very very shallow volume before market opening at 9:30. You can'really build any positions then.

I wish this man were right, but I really don't think so.
 
I don't think that's right. I'm checking out the trades and there were very small sized trades (about $73k total) at 8:17 and 8:20, looks like buying because the price went up a bit, and all around the $259 level the stock had closed at on Friday.

If anyone did anything, they would've done it Friday. When there's no news around a stock (either quarterly results release or other) there is usually very very shallow volume before market opening at 9:30. You can'really build any positions then.

I wish this man were right, but I really don't think so.

There was very little volume in the final minutes of LMT on Friday. Was in done in pre-market today ?
 
There was very little volume in the final minutes of LMT on Friday. Was in done in pre-market today ?

Like I said, I see $73k of trading before 8:26, at prices in line with Friday. Only once the tweet hit at did the volume pick up and the shares get pressured.

I also think the man's own picture is 'falsified'. He has 8:25 marked in the original chart he's using, but then he red arrows what is 8:26 and calls it 8:20.

There was also literally no trading between 8:20 and 8:26.
 
Like I said, I see $73k of trading before 8:26, at prices in line with Friday. Only once the tweet hit at did the volume pick up and the shares get pressured.

I also think the man's own picture is 'falsified'. He has 8:25 marked in the original chart he's using, but then he red arrows what is 8:26 and calls it 8:20.

There was also literally no trading between 8:20 and 8:26.
I was a bit unsure about the lower scale myself, the same moment is labelled differently in the two pictures.
 
Like he saved face when Turkey shot one of his jets down?

There's not much a country can do in those circumstances other than declare war. Since Turkey is a member of NATO the Russians had no choice but to take it on the chin.

It's much easier to defy a no fly order and keep your planes in the air. Then the onus is on NATO to fire the first shot.
 
So feck 200m people. let 538 people decide who gets to be president? What a pointless lawsuit.

That's exactly why the founding fathers created the electoral college. It's kind of an insurance net incase someone is elected who shouldn't have been. It's perfectly legal for an elector to not vote the way their state did.

I had no idea.. But reading that article suggests they cant by law.
Either way, Trump won and he should be the next president. Any challenges to the system should have been made before the elections. Not now.. after the voting

He won what? The Electoral college? But the electoral college system hasn't concluded yet and lets be honest if he doesn't win the real vote (when all the electors actually vote), which is very unlikely but still, he hasn't won the electoral college or the popular vote, how can you say he has won in that case?
 
There's not much a country can do in those circumstances other than declare war. Since Turkey is a member of NATO the Russians had no choice but to take it on the chin.

It's much easier to defy a no fly order and keep your planes in the air. Then the onus is on NATO to fire the first shot.
Actually when you defy a no-fly zone, it is much more justified for the one enforcing it to shoot you down. The actual shooting down that occurred was completely unprovoked. They would have had more grounds for some form of response.
 
The faithless elector stuff is pretty moot, if they don't get him 270 then it'll go to the House and the only thing you can count on with Ryan is he'll do whatever makes it easiest to slash welfare and taxes.
 
The contradiction from paragraph 1 to 2 is astounding. Isolationist in one, expansionist in the other.

no contradition.
China is exerting its influence over region it considers it has a right to.
Us not simply towing the line about taking a phone call is nothing. We are in discussion with them about South China.

Problem is we are not even talking to Russia.
 
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