The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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MarceloFalcon said:
I'm sure you'll agree its unsustainable on a large scale though, right? That there are not enough moves to be made to save every job that can either be executed in another location for less, or especially, that doesn't need the same level of human input anymore.
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Oh no doubt - which is why I said this was all about the optics. He gets to take office and say - I'm a man of my words blah blah blah.

Going off on a tangent now but this is what Trump said wrt to Coal mines and miners -

In May, President-elect Donald Trump stood on the stage at the Charleston Civic Center in West Virginia, put on a miners helmet and pretended to shovel coal. “If I win we’re going to bring those miners back,” Trump said at the rally. “…These ridiculous rules and regulations that make it impossible for you to compete … we’re going to take that all off the table, folks."
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Sounds good, right? Here's the problem -

About 33 percent of all the electric power in the United States comes from burning coal. Which sounds like a lot, and it is. But here’s the thing—less than a decade ago, it was 50 percent. What happened in the interval wasn’t Obama starting up a war on coal. It was fracking for natural gas.

And coal jobs? They are well and truly fracked. Forever.

In that decade, fracking made natural gas cheap and abundant. It also made earthquakes common in some of the most previously stable regions of the nation, polluted aquifers, and had a marginal effect on climate change … but put that aside.

In the summer of 2008, natural gas cost over $12 per million Btu. That was about three times as much as the equivalent energy from coal. At the time coal was 50 percent of the nation’s electrical production. Natural gas, about 20 percent.

But by the end of 2008, the cost was of natural gas wasn’t $12. It was $6. By 2009, gas cost just over half what it did in 2008. It kept moving down because fracking was putting supply well ahead of demand. Meanwhile the cost of coal was actually creeping upward.

There were hundreds of new coal plants in planning across the country in 2008. By 2010, there were dozens. By 2012, there were none. Even plants that had broken ground were abandoned in progress.
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And what does Lord Trump have to say about the ever expanding fracking industry -


:lol: :lol:
 
MarceloFalcon said:
I'm sure you'll agree its unsustainable on a large scale though, right? That there are not enough moves to be made to save every job that can either be executed in another location for less, or especially, that doesn't need the same level of human input anymore.
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750,000 dollars is small potatoes for 1000 jobs. If that 3/4 million is in the form of tax breaks, it costs the tax payer nothing, since there's no tax paid on jobs relocated to Mexico. It's a win-win for the State and Federal Government.

It looks to me like Trump strong-armed Carrier, and the piffling 750 grand was included to save the company's face and make it look like a deal was struck rather than Carrier succumbing to outright coercion.
 
langster said:
Yeah, kudos to him as he stopped 1000 jobs going to Mexico! BUT! at a ridiculous expense to the country as he offered them crazy tax exemptions and benefits to keep the plants open in the States. So yeah, I expect those 1000 people and their families are extremely grateful as they kept their jobs, but don't for one minute think it was a good deal for the country on a whole because it most certainly wasn't. If that's how he plans on going about things all the time then the USA will be bankrupt before he's in to his 2nd year in charge.
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Massive tax breaks paid for by the Indiana tax payer. Let's see it with a few other states and not the VP elect's. We all now repubs hate government money to be given unless it's their state as shown by the multiple cnuts who blocked Sandy relief and 911 first responders help but demanded the coffer doors be blasted open when a twister rips up a few blocks of a town in their states.
So if this is the modus operandi of the TrumpPence admin. then the tax payer will be subsiding the wage of millions of blue collar workers as well as minimum wage employees.
We really are choked by corporations these days and there should be a massive push by the Dems to spend our money in small businesses and responsible US companies that don't need to be bribed to keep jobs in their own country. A huge part would be a one payer healthcare system, keep you're employer out of you're private business and frees up cash to reinvest in their most important asset, their employees.
Profit upon profit every quarter is unsustainable and destroying the middles classes. I once sat in a budget meeting where my boss was freaking out that we were 12% down from the previous year and it was embarrassing, we were all to blame. This was Nov. 08, in the mire of a recession, we all took a 15% pay cut and a 25% reduction in staff while she kept her high salary and company house. I just sat there and thought, what a cnut. No investment was made in to the business to generate revenue but cuts were made to keep that profit margin high.
I hope the system is destroyed and something fair put in place in my children's lifetime, because be damn sure won't happen in mine.
 
Will Absolute said:
750,000 dollars is small potatoes for 1000 jobs. If that 3/4 million is in the form of tax breaks, it costs the tax payer nothing, since there's no tax paid on jobs relocated to Mexico. It's a win-win for the State and Federal Government.

It looks to me like Trump strong-armed Carrier, and the piffling 750 grand was included to save the company's face and make it look like a deal was struck rather than Carrier succumbing to outright coercion.
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I think the deal is not on the paltry $700k, but on promised corporate tax cuts. A optimistic best case scenario will be that the amount of jobs will remain the same...with the corporates getting a higher tax relief. I presume there'll be many companies who announce they will not relocate jobs out (even if they planned to or not) and take advantage of tax benefits. For all his populist claims, Trump is pro-rich and only the company owners will benefit from his schemes. The 1000 job save is just a scam to manipulate public perception. Companies get benefits for maintaining status quo, essentially. More money for doing nothing. Figure it out.

If you need advantage, then tax benefits only should be provided for moving jobs "in" to the USA. For moving out, maybe higher tax as a penalty should suffice as a deterrent.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
I think the deal is not on the paltry $700k, but on promised corporate tax cuts. A optimistic best case scenario will be that the amount of jobs will remain the same...with the corporates getting a higher tax relief. I presume there'll be many companies who announce they will not relocate jobs out (even if they planned to or not) and take advantage of tax benefits. For all his populist claims, Trump is pro-rich and only the company owners will benefit from his schemes. The 1000 job save is just a scam to manipulate public perception. Companies get benefits for maintaining status quo, essentially. More money for doing nothing. Figure it out.

If you need advantage, then tax benefits only should be provided for moving jobs "in" to the USA. For moving out, maybe higher tax as a penalty should suffice as a deterrent.
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The tax cut is not a quid pro quo for Carrier but rather part of Trump's election platform which he spoke about during the campaign. He believes - rightly - that a massive cut in corporate tax will keep American jobs at home rather than exporting them to places like Ireland with its corporation tax of 12.5%. The b*****d :mad:
 
Will Absolute said:
The tax cut is not a quid pro quo for Carrier but rather part of Trump's election platform which he spoke about during the campaign. He believes - rightly - that a massive cut in corporate tax will keep American jobs at home rather than exporting them to places like Ireland with its corporation tax of 12.5%. The b*****d :mad:
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The US faces a huge deficit, and most of its spending is not on welfare. Even within welfare spending the majority is not on unemployment dole. In fact some young able-bodied working people too get govt benefits because the minimum wage sometimes does not cover the cost of living.
So when corporate tax is lost, that deficit is likely to become worse even in the case that unemployment falls.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
People of low ability suffer from delusions of superiority, resulting in ironic citation of irrelevant psychological research.
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Yes, but he mentioned that it was specific to Democrats (or maybe me in particular), that's the part I didn't understand.
 
berbatrick said:
Yes, but he mentioned that it was specific to Democrats (or maybe me in particular), that's the part I didn't understand.
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Yes. I assumed he was just insulting you and Democrats, so was just childishly suggesting it may apply more to him.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
Yes. I assumed he was just insulting you and Democrats, so was just childishly suggesting it may apply more to him.
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Did I suffer from Dunning-Kruger when replying to your post? Is there any escape from the recursive cycle? Who knows!
Apart from ignorant people who think they know.
 
When you start looking at Steve Rattner's analysis of salaries in the USA versus the likes of China, Mexico, etc., it is unsustainable to give USA manufacturers incentives to retain USA-based employees. The math simply doesn't work. Nearly $38/h vs $4-6/h. Mexico is obviously attractive due to proximity to the USA. Trump faces a tough task to disincentivize based on tariffs etc.

CymIeXNXUAIhsYc.jpg:large


The rustbelt employment charts Rattner presented today were also very enlightening. I'm missing something. 8 years of Bush resulted in huge job losses in the rustbelt. Aside from PA which has held steady, Obama reversed that trend in those states. Those same people now want a change and vote Trump because growth is too slow? Really bizarre.

Cyl3qH-XUAAaeHZ.jpg
 
senorgregster said:
When you start looking at Steve Rattner's analysis of salaries in the USA versus the likes of China, Mexico, etc., it is unsustainable to give USA manufacturers incentives to retain USA-based employees. The math simply doesn't work. Nearly $38/h vs $4-6/h. Mexico is obviously attractive due to proximity to the USA. Trump faces a tough task to disincentivize based on tariffs etc.

CymIeXNXUAIhsYc.jpg:large


The rustbelt employment charts Rattner presented today were also very enlightening. I'm missing something. 8 years of Bush resulted in huge job losses in the rustbelt. Aside from PA which has held steady, Obama reversed that trend in those states. Those same people now want a change and vote Trump because growth is too slow? Really bizarre.

Cyl3qH-XUAAaeHZ.jpg
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OUTTA HERE WITH YOUR CHARTS AND YOUR NUMBERS!!

(Good post. The Mfg Cost is probably total avg, so reflects the product mix of each country's industry, not straight "what does it cost to make a shoe?". But I think your point would still be absolutely valid if we looked at/had that data)
 
"I spent my entire goddamn life fighting for women and children, and it ends today. I’m going to a motherfecking spa." -- Hillary Clinton

https://medium.com/@shitHRCcantsay/are-you-fecking-kidding-me-86bdc2c638d6#.jnux51fnk
 
senorgregster said:
When you start looking at Steve Rattner's analysis of salaries in the USA versus the likes of China, Mexico, etc., it is unsustainable to give USA manufacturers incentives to retain USA-based employees. The math simply doesn't work. Nearly $38/h vs $4-6/h. Mexico is obviously attractive due to proximity to the USA. Trump faces a tough task to disincentivize based on tariffs etc.

CymIeXNXUAIhsYc.jpg:large


The rustbelt employment charts Rattner presented today were also very enlightening. I'm missing something. 8 years of Bush resulted in huge job losses in the rustbelt. Aside from PA which has held steady, Obama reversed that trend in those states. Those same people now want a change and vote Trump because growth is too slow? Really bizarre.

Cyl3qH-XUAAaeHZ.jpg
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And yet Germany with the highest wage rate per hour has 20% employed in manufacturing while the US has 8%. So, it seems that they've figured out a way to make it work for them. They also border countries with lower wage rates, so how come no decimation of their manufacturing base?
 
utdalltheway said:
And yet Germany with the highest wage rate per hour has 20% employed in manufacturing while the US has 8%. So, it seems that they've figured out a way to make it work for them. They also border countries with lower wage rates, so how come no decimation of their manufacturing base?
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I should imagine a large part of that is down to the excellent reputation for German precision, especially in the car/auto market. BMW, VW, Audi and Mercedes all export millions of cars all over the world and millions to the USA (admittedly many are not built in Germany) It's only really American manufacturers who are obsessed with moronic large engine, fuel guzzling, climate destroying cars, maybe if they started building less muscle cars, maybe they could recapture some of the lucrative auto market. I mean FORD do well around the world, but you very rarely see many Chevrolet, GM or Dodge cars around. Yeah, you do see a few here and there, but nothing in comparison really.
 
utdalltheway said:
And yet Germany with the highest wage rate per hour has 20% employed in manufacturing while the US has 8%. So, it seems that they've figured out a way to make it work for them. They also border countries with lower wage rates, so how come no decimation of their manufacturing base?
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I really don't know. Looking at the highest revenue generating manufacturing companies in Europe, Germany is leagues above others. Has 1st, 2nd, 4th, 6th, 7th, 9th, and 11th ranked companies :eek:
They are also very well known names. Perhaps they can command top dollar for their products because of the known quality? Compare that to the US manufacturing companies, particularly those in the rustbelt.
 
Adisa said:
Few king autocorrect, dawns :lol:
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:lol: I'm usually quite sympathetic with respect to auto-correct errors, being that the program on my phone appears to have been written by an actual donkey whose first language isn't English but I'm not buying it on this one, mate.
 
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