The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

Status
Not open for further replies.
InfiniteBoredom said:
Money wouldn't be there to 'invest' though, that's the whole point. The American public just can't be sold on deficit spending in peace time, but will pull out all the stops to 'support the troops', until things went haywire.

They were in the depth of the crisis back in 09 and the most Barry could get out of Congress was 700 bn. Most reputable economists at the time pegged it at at least upwards of 1 trillion.

Which brings us to where we are, the plebs don't understand nuances or policies, but 'MAGA' and 'America first' sounds good, the Tangerine Overlord was right when he asserted all the way back that people rely on feelings, not logics, when making decisions.
Click to expand...

If anyone can sell that notion, it'll be Donald Trump.

That 700bn was going straight to some very unpopular businesses, though, as important as it was, so it's no surprise it was curtailed. Now, imagine the country hasn't wasted all that money traipsing about the deserts of Mesopotamia.

Yes, this is recourse to emotive arguments is often very visible in many areas. Gun control being one fairly obvious subject where it (needlessly and detractively) occurs.
 
Dwazza said:
If anyone can sell that notion, it'll be Donald Trump.
Click to expand...

Oh he will sell it alright, its the Trump U packages on a national scale. Privatising all public projects, use taxpayers money to subsidise private contractors all in the name of creating jobs, sell off government property and let future generations picking up the tab on shoddily made, rapidly deteriorating infrastructure. Exactly how the John Howard administration fecked over AU and let the subsequent Labour admin shoulder the blame.

Dwazza said:
That 700bn was going straight to some very unpopular businesses, though, as important as it was, so it's no surprise it was curtailed. Now, imagine the country hasn't wasted all that money traipsing about the deserts of Mesopotamia.
Click to expand...

The most controversial aspect of the TARP was bailing out the banks, which Republicans were wholeheartedly for. They were against infrastructure and public service spending. Sure, in hindsight Barry made a very big mistake of not at the very least putting up a facade of going after bankers, but policy making is by its nature messy and unsatisfactory to all parties involved. As for what actually needed to be spent on though, Senate Republicans just wouldn't budge and what they ended up doing was effectively bribing swing state/blue state GOPers like Susan Collins with money into their state projects from the bail out to garner the 60 votes. So you ended up with money not in where it was most needed, paltry amount to begin with, while the economy was shedding 700k jobs a month.
 
Raoul said:
It doesn't matter what caused it, what matters is it exists and the Dems failed to put up a candidate who could assuage blue collar concerns. Instead they corronated someone who relied on Beyoncé and George Clooney to nudge her towards the finish line.
Click to expand...


Of course it matters. if people are too fecking thick to work out who is better for them politically then feck them.
 
Adisa said:
$
Click to expand...

Obviously, but who gives a shit? If people are so stupid that they can't see that over in the States then more fool them. As I said previously, good fecking riddance. He's a slimy, snaky, nasty, two faced piece of shit and he will fit right in with the new President elect and his ilk. Bon voyage and don't let the door hit you on the way out!
 
Dwazza said:
That little bolded bit might be a clue. America first.

In fairness to Trump, if he curtails the number of, let's call them "foreign adventures" the US embarks on, things should improve at home. Iraq cost upwards of a billion dollars every single day. Imagine if just 10% of that had been invested in the USA proper.
Click to expand...
Totally agree, if the US kept their noses out it would be a good thing but the problem is the thirst for profit will always have them encroaching in other countries.
 
Dwazza said:
That little bolded bit might be a clue. America first.

In fairness to Trump, if he curtails the number of, let's call them "foreign adventures" the US embarks on, things should improve at home. Iraq cost upwards of a billion dollars every single day. Imagine if just 10% of that had been invested in the USA proper.
Click to expand...

It was around $10billion per month at the peak of the troop presence, just to have the troops there.
 
Raoul said:
What sort of profit are you referring to ?
Click to expand...
Profit from war, profit from holding less developed countries by the nuts, tax free profit from US companies. It seems the only people that don't make money from USforeign policy are the American tax payers.
 
GiddyUp said:
Profit from war, profit from holding less developed countries by the nuts, tax free profit from US companies. It seems the only people that don't make money from USforeign policy are the American tax payers.
Click to expand...

There's no profit to be made in war. Sure a small group of defense contractors may see better profits, but all things said the country loses a lot of money and lives participating in wars. When you weigh things up, the Iraq war alone cost over a trillion dollars to the taxpayer.
 
Pogue Mahone said:


Exactly what you'd expect having read that interview with his biographer. He isn't mentally capable of taking in any kind of detailed briefing, so he's deliberately avoiding them.

One in the eye for anyone who was hoping it would all be fine because he'd at least get good advice.
Click to expand...


You just knew he wouldn't have the attention span to handle the role
 
Raoul said:
There's no profit to be made in war. Sure a small group of defense contractors may see better profits, but all things said the country loses a lot of money and lives participating in wars. When you weigh things up, the Iraq war alone cost over a trillion dollars to the taxpayer.
Click to expand...

Haliburton? There is profit for corporations always.

Yeah. The ordinary taxpayer pays for unneccesary wars with their lives and money for wars they never needed in the first place.
 
Raoul said:
There's no profit to be made in war. Sure a small group of defense contractors may see better profits, but all things said the country loses a lot of money and lives participating in wars. When you weigh things up, the Iraq war alone cost over a trillion dollars to the taxpayer.
Click to expand...
Thing is those defence contacts and the rest of it lobby hard and influence people to protect their interests, it tends to be a lot more influential than the wants of the people... Has been for a long time, and I don't see that changing under your new government regardless what they say.
 
Red Dreams said:
Haliburton? There is profit for corporations always.

Yeah. The ordinary taxpayer pays for unneccesary wars with their lives and money for wars they never needed in the first place.
Click to expand...

Sure there are a few companies who make money during war, but they are a drop in the bucket in terms of what the actual cost of conducting a war is to a nation. The idea that people go to war for profit is simply not accurate and generally flogged by those who aren't familiar with the specifics.
 
Raoul said:
Sure there are a few companies who make money during war, but they are a drop in the bucket in terms of what the actual cost of conducting a war is to a nation. The idea that people go to war for profit is simply not accurate and generally flogged by those who aren't familiar with the specifics.
Click to expand...

so are wars propogated by ignoront neocons only?
 
afrocentricity said:
Thing is those defence contacts and the rest of it lobby hard and influence people to protect their interests, it tends to be a lot more influential than the wants of the people... Has been for a long time, and I don't see that changing under your new government regardless what they say.
Click to expand...

That's true, but it can't be applied to Iraq and Afghanistan, where decisions were made to go to war for reasons other than profit motive. Contrary of course to the popular left wing meme that Dick Cheney plotted to start the Iraq war so he could profit on his Halliburton shares. Of all the nonsensical reasons, that probably takes the cake.
 
Raoul said:
Well deductively, if not for sheer profit, there are probably other reasons why wars are waged. Imperialism, geo-political insecurity, misinterpretation of threats etc.
Click to expand...

Follow the money. When the corporate media push the agenda, you know there is profit behind it.
Imperialism has its base as cheap/free resources. Geo-political domination. same thing. There is no misinterpretation of threats. Simply manufacture of threats.
The US and other Western powers commited murder for power.
 
Red Dreams said:
Follow the money. When the corporate media push the agenda, you know there is profit behind it.
Imperialism has its base as cheap/free resources. Geo-political domination. same thing. There is no misinterpretation of threats. Simply manufacture of threats.
The US and other Western powers commited murder for power.
Click to expand...

Not sure if that can be applied to the two big wars of the past 15 years. There were obviously geo-political reasons for Afghanistan following 9/11 and Iraq was a widely acknowledged blunder that was based on a complete mistinteretation of where the post 9/11 threat was. The profit motive myth is just as fatuous as the "Iraq war was all about oil" myth, since the war actually choked off Iraq's output for a decade and the US gets most of its oil from the Americas and not the Middle East.
 
Raoul said:
That's true, but it can't be applied to Iraq and Afghanistan, where decisions were made to go to war for reasons other than profit motive. Contrary of course to the popular left wing meme that Dick Cheney plotted to start the Iraq war so he could profit on his Halliburton shares. Of all the nonsensical reasons, that probably takes the cake.
Click to expand...

Afganistan. 9/11 response.
Iraq. Manufactured intelligence to get into war. I agree Chenny and other scum made use of the opportunity to screw the American public.

EDIT:

"Slam Dunk" remember that?
 
Red Dreams said:
Afganistan. 9/11 response.
Iraq. Manufactured intelligence to get into war. I agree Chenny and other scum made use of the opportunity to screw the American public.

EDIT:

"Slam Dunk" remember that?
Click to expand...

Yes I do, but what does that have to do with the core point about profit motive ?
 
Look I have being kind here.

Our government is owned by Corporations. We 'think' we have a choice of canndidates. In many ways this election and the result went some way to breaking the system. Trump was never the ideal choice for either party.
I applaud the rejection of the 'normal' candidate from both sides.

If the American public is aware of what is happening to their government, it will be a start.
 
Red Dreams said:
Look I have being kind here.

Our government is owned by Corporations. We 'think' we have a choice of canndidates. In many ways this election and the result went some way to breaking the system. Trump was never the ideal choice for either party.
I applaud the rejection of the 'normal' candidate from both sides.

If the American public is aware of what is happening to their government, it will be a start.
Click to expand...

That's an entirely different topic.
 
MSNBC the bastian of the Liberal media is owned by Comcast. Do we really think these people will allow anything on air that goes against their interests?

Both sides are laughing their arses off watching the Punch and Judy show of supporters from both sides fighting for 'their' candidates.

You don't get News from these people. For that you have to look elswhere.
 
Red Dreams said:
MSNBC the bastian of the Liberal media is owned by Comcast. Do we really think these people will allow anything on air that goes against their interests?

Both sides are laughing their arses off watching the Punch and Judy show of supporters from both sides fighting for 'their' candidates.

You don't get News from these people. For that you have to look elswhere.
Click to expand...

Yes, Comcast is pushing heavily for the TPP.
 
Red Dreams said:
Look I have being kind here.

Our government is owned by Corporations. We 'think' we have a choice of canndidates. In many ways this election and the result went some way to breaking the system. Trump was never the ideal choice for either party.
I applaud the rejection of the 'normal' candidate from both sides.

If the American public is aware of what is happening to their government, it will be a start.
Click to expand...

On the contrary, Trump was the perfect candidate. He only cares about his pockets, he has zero political goals. The republicans have both houses and they will continue with their agenda (tax cuts for the super rich, eliminate programs for the poor, destruction of the middle class, etc). Trump is fine with all that. He is a billionaire, his life goal is to make more and more money, no matter what. If he has to play a role, he will, he is a TV star after all. Beyond that he will do nothing, the usual republicans will run the show.
 
nick2004 said:
On the contrary, Trump was the perfect candidate. He only cares about his pockets, he has zero political goals. The republicans have both houses and they will continue with their agenda (tax cuts for the super rich, eliminate programs for the poor, destruction of the middle class, etc). Trump is fine with all that. He is a billionaire, his life goal is to make more and more money, no matter what. If he has to play a role, he will, he is a TV star after all. Beyond that he will do nothing, the usual republicans will run the show.
Click to expand...

The GOP could not control him. Why they fought so hard against him.
He sees himself as a good guy. He would not want to be someone who let all his voters down. But he lacks courage. I think he will knuckle under eventually. He will compromise on a number of things. His ego will not allow him to simply adopt the GOP's policies.

Who actually knows what this guy will do.

Looks like he has not been taking the daily intel briefings. Amazing.
 
Red Dreams said:
MSNBC the bastian of the Liberal media is owned by Comcast. Do we really think these people will allow anything on air that goes against their interests?

Both sides are laughing their arses off watching the Punch and Judy show of supporters from both sides fighting for 'their' candidates.

You don't get News from these people. For that you have to look elswhere.
Click to expand...

What news source do you trust then?
 
So Wisconsin is having to recount the votes, and Stein has raised more than enough money to get the two other states (Pennsylvania and Michigan) to take a recount too, and there is now big pressure on Florida doing the same. Apparently (according to some reports) it was mathematically impossible for Hillary to lose Florida with the huge lead she had from early votes. Personally I think it's just a huge waste of time, and even if things were rigged or votes were miscounted, nothing will change because there will literally be riots. However I did read an extremely interesting article on how the electronic machines could easily have been hacked and that the Russians had tried to do exactly the same in Ukraine but were stopped hours before the election. Whatever the outcome (and I think nothing will change) I still think it's absolutely amazing that so little has really been made about obvious Russian interference and the President Elect's obvious ties to Russia. It completely bamboozles me how the one country that the Republicans hate over any other has seemingly been allowed to help control and dictate the outcome of the fecking Presidential election. It's unthinkable really. You would still think the cold war is going on when you hear some people talk about Russia and Putin, but apparently they are ok when they are meddling in the USA's elections. It's beyond surreal, it truly is.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.