With such a great team and superior manager you'd wonder why Spurs aren't more than 3 points ahead of Utd.
The Spurs thread | 2016-2017 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned
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Are you sure? I'm not.
Who has said that? I cant recall ever seeing somebody saying Poch is superior to Jose. I think both teams are fairly even in terms of ability and it comes down to opinion on individuals. No need to bring sarcasm into it.
And not leading the table.
Not you though. You are probably the only level headed spurs fan, at least on mains.
I don't think you'd need to go far to find a Spurs fan on this site with that opinion. It's a flippant post but if you're saying Utd only have two players on their team that would get into Spurs team then it's going to provoke responses.
Spurs have a very good team although they still only probably have 2/3 players that I'd really like to see at OT who'd improve our side but in fairness Spurs would probably the same about us although we've certainly got a lot more options with our attacking players.
What sort of money is Dele Ali on? I know he signed a new contract last September but if he keeps this up they'll be offering him a new one.
What sort of money is Dele Ali on? I know he signed a new contract last September but if he keeps this up they'll be offering him a new one.
Well its all opinion however to be fair to me I did say De Gea could easily be selected ahead of Lloris but my own preference was Hugo and I also said Valencia could easily have been my RB also which would have been 4 players from Utd which I think is a fair reflection imo. Spurs defence is better than Utd's, I dont think many could argue that so thats why I went Lloris because he is a big part of that. Take the defence out of it then you have to pick Zlatan, Alli, Eriksen and Pogba which only leaves 2 places left out of the 11 to be debated about I think. Not a lot between the sides imo.
But you haven't applied that logic elsewhere. A big part of Pogba's form is the midfield around him. So why not pick United's midfield then? I'm also not sure that Eriksen is an automatic pick ahead of Mata or Mkhitaryan. Or Martial for that matter.
Indivdually and collectively I believe that our defense is superior to Utd - not by a huge amount but by enough for me to select them all (I could easily have De Gea in there instead of Hugo of course). This is not the case in midfield or attack obviously which is when I start selecting the likes of Pogba and Zlatan as they are shoe-in's
Jan Vertonghen? Really? You're arguing against your own logic. I think my initial point was fair. With such great players Spurs really should be in a better position.
Who do you think Utd have that is better than Vertonghen? I honestly don't think you have anybody better. What Utd have and Spurs do not is a much greater quality of squad depth. Our first 11 is a match to yours certainly imo - outside of that, not so much.
I'd take any or our centre backs other than Rojo ahead of him. You think Spurs would have 9 of a combined team so I'm not surprised you'd think that. Out of interest if you were picking from the entire league who would you leave out of your defence?
Well its all opinion of course but I wouldn't take any of your centre backs ahead of him.
Out of the league - I'd take Koscielny instead of Jan and possibly Bellerin instead of Walker but that's it.
But would you take any in the league ahead of him? It's a fairly biased opinion I would say.
Yeah I said I'd take Koscielny instead of Jan
It's a form of superstition that there's such a thing as a 'Spurs mentality'. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever for the current team to have some sort of mental bridge to the Spurs sides of yore, which would predetermine their failure. It's all very good banter, especially if it irks Glaston and the like, but I'm surprised to see that this spiel has caught on to such an extent now, that people affect to put it forward as a serious argument.
There was some non-sensical moaning earlier in this thread that Spurs are a dirty side.
Whilst we are anything but a dirty side the fact is that Chelsea couldn't cope with Spurs physicality last night. Pedro and Kante in particular looked very lightweight and were at times run over by much more physically imposing players. And they were just the most obvious examples.
Whilst we are anything but a dirty side the fact is that Chelsea couldn't cope with Spurs physicality last night. Pedro and Kante in particular looked very lightweight and were at times run over by much more physically imposing players. And they were just the most obvious examples.
I think it's partly because some posters want to "rationalise" away and downplay the degree to which Spurs have developed a pretty good team. So last season our 3rd place finish was apparently because other teams had "under-performed" whilst Spurs had "over-performed". But now that - this season - that argument lacks even the semblance of credibility, we're apparently going to crash and burn because of weak mentality.
Personally I think the current Spurs team has a very strong mentality and tremendous team spirit. I'm not sure if it's still the case without checking, but I heard some commentator say recently that no team had come back from losing positions in league games as many times as Spurs this season.
Those teams did underperform. Spurs have improved on what they were last year as well though, so credit to them.
I wonder if Pochettino will now start to play with 3 at the back as the norm, seeing as he's met with success (as far as I recall) each time he's used it so far this season?
The system would seem to suit us very well, since Dier is competent on the right, Alderweireld is excellent in the centre and Vertonghen is well suited to playing on the left, and also since both Walker and Rose have the pace and engine to get back and make it a 5 when needed.
Moreover, the system allows Rose and Walker to play an even more attacking game than they usually do, whilst Wanyama is quite disciplined in staying back most of the time, and so can provide a screen in front of the back 3 and drop back even deeper when/if needed.
The system would seem to suit us very well, since Dier is competent on the right, Alderweireld is excellent in the centre and Vertonghen is well suited to playing on the left, and also since both Walker and Rose have the pace and engine to get back and make it a 5 when needed.
Moreover, the system allows Rose and Walker to play an even more attacking game than they usually do, whilst Wanyama is quite disciplined in staying back most of the time, and so can provide a screen in front of the back 3 and drop back even deeper when/if needed.
They did under-perform absolutely. But I think the point is that we didn't do well because they under-performed, we did well because we did well.
We drew 1-1 at Arsenal with it, although to be fair I thought we played well that day and deserved at least our point.
The thing with Poch is we've now played a number of systems this season, 4231, 343, 4141 and in his interviews he puts this down to the continued learning of the players that they don't now have to always go with the trusted 4231 which we played in 37 of our PL games last season.
Seeing the build up to the Spurs match, they seem to be talking about their impending stadium move as if it's going to take them to the next level
Is it just me who thinks it's going to set them back a bit? We see with West Hams move that it's made more harm than good for the moment. And Arsenal had a few years of losing their best talents because of the costs of moving to Emirates
I feel it's poorly timed from them. They'll need to balance the books and they're going to be tested with offers for Alli and co at some stage. I can't see Poch being there much longer before he gets an offer elsewhere he has to consider too.
Is it just me who thinks it's going to set them back a bit? We see with West Hams move that it's made more harm than good for the moment. And Arsenal had a few years of losing their best talents because of the costs of moving to Emirates
I feel it's poorly timed from them. They'll need to balance the books and they're going to be tested with offers for Alli and co at some stage. I can't see Poch being there much longer before he gets an offer elsewhere he has to consider too.
The thing with Spurs is, I can't ever see them making a step as a proper big club. They'll always be Spurs in my eyes, in or around the top four, Arsenal lite kind of club. They're just a bit bland aren't they?
There is no comparison with West Ham. Their new stadium is a dog's breakfast - an Olympic's stadium that was never designed for football, and which they only rent. The Spurs stadium, in contrast, will be wholly owned by the club, is purpose designed for football and will be state-of-the-art. And we will complete the project with less of a debt burden than faced by Arsenal.
As for losing players - almost all of our key players have recently signed new contracts and are clearly happy to be at Spurs. The biggest danger is losing Pochettino ... but then he has spoken of establishing a dynasty at Spurs and is also clearly happy at the way his young squad continues to develop and improve. I'd be surprised of he leaves before we start playing in our new stadium the season after next.
I wouldn't worry about Poch going anywhere, I can only see the big 2 peaking his interest and I can't see ZZ going anywhere soon and Poch is an Espanyol man who once said Barca weren't the true Catalans.
If/when Dembele's performances start to slide due to age (he turns 30 this summer) I think we already have his replacement in young Harry Winks, who has impressed in pretty much every start/appearance so far.
Pochettino appears to rate him highly:
"Today, he was fantastic. He is working very hard. I think he is a special player. It is only time before he achieves big things but, in that way, he can achieve big things quickly. He knows very well the key is to work hard and have a good mentality. Every day he is showing that."
So in the first season in our new stadium, the season after next, by which time Winks will be 22, I reckon he has a very good chance of being a starting XI regular for Spurs.
Pochettino appears to rate him highly:
"Today, he was fantastic. He is working very hard. I think he is a special player. It is only time before he achieves big things but, in that way, he can achieve big things quickly. He knows very well the key is to work hard and have a good mentality. Every day he is showing that."
So in the first season in our new stadium, the season after next, by which time Winks will be 22, I reckon he has a very good chance of being a starting XI regular for Spurs.
See Bentaleb, Mason, Carroll, Livermore, etc.
Perhaps, but I think Winks is a cut above all of those. And Pochettino trusts him enough to have brought him on for the last 15-20 minutes (in place of Dembele) to see out the recent game against Chelski.
Haven't seen much of Winks. What kind of player is he? Anyone you would compare him too in playing style?
I don't foresee us losing any major talents yet in the near future. Right now we're in a very good place, new contracts, good players, and a great manager.
We're a little different on the cost side of things than Arsenal were as we've been trying to build this stadium for about a decade and have been saving up the entire time to do so. I know many find any mention of "netspend" tiresome but the fact is we've been basically near bottom of that for the entire league for it and we're about 9th in wage bill even though we're 6th in earnings (although we may be higher now due to all the new contracts) in preparation for this stadium specifically so we don't need to do an Arsenal and fund it through player sales.
I do agree about the stadium move itself though. Those never seem to have that great of an impact team wise, in fact it's often a negative impact, and I'm not looking forward to playing at Wembley for the entirety of next season.
As for Poch, who knows? Those things can happen, but from all we know he's very happy here and frankly I can count the number of clubs he would leave us for on one hand and all those clubs need special circumstances in order to have that facilitated. More specifically those clubs don't just hire good coaches who have made Spurs look good. They hire managers who win trophies - seeing as the only competitions Poch even gives an ounce of effort towards (judging by squad selection) he would have to win CL or the league. I don't want to lose Poch but if he brings in one of those trophies it would certainly soften the blow.
That said for now everything looks great and I honk even the most pessimistic of Spurs fans are having a hard time being glum about it right now.
He's a CM with an all-round game both defensively and attacking-wise. He rarely gets caught in possession and has a 90.6% pass completion rate this season (521 minutes of football). He plays positively, always looking to move the ball forwards, is quite mobile, with a decent turn of pace and acceleration.
I'm not sure whose playing style I'd compare him to. Perhaps Modric a little bit, but obviously at a far lower level.
He has a bit of Carrick qualities to him: His best attributes are his passing and positioning. Though he's not an AM as he sits a little deeper and picks his passes very well. He's always open to receive the ball and he moves it along quickly and almost always forward.
One of the more impressive qualities I've liked about his is his composure and his ability as a "press breaker". In this modern game where pressing systems are so rampant players like Winks who are so composed on the ball and never seem to suffer when under pressure are very valuable. He's always moving to stay open, and his touches and passes allow him to move the ball around the press with ease it seems.
What I'd like to see is more of his defensive game. Often when he's played we've dominated or we're just closing a game out so I haven't seen if he can match the defensive work Dembele puts in. Especially if Winks is going to be the heir apparent to Dembele's spot, even though they play very different stylistically.
Sounds promising. Pochettino is building a proper squad
Thanks, thats a really good detailed post. He sounds like a really good talent and I hope he does well (if it means you kick Liverpool out of Europe
)On Poch, when asked this weekend if he could one day be manager of Barca he replied:
"I was born with a bull in my arm!"
With his previous Espanyol Barca comments I think it's fair to say it's extremely unlikely Barca will ever offer him the job and equally unlikely that he would take it.
That realistically only leaves Real as a possible destination and judging by how much attention he gets in Marca it's a distinct possibility that they will knock on his door one day, but if the realistic options are down to one we shouldn't be worried about losing him.
"I was born with a bull in my arm!"
With his previous Espanyol Barca comments I think it's fair to say it's extremely unlikely Barca will ever offer him the job and equally unlikely that he would take it.
That realistically only leaves Real as a possible destination and judging by how much attention he gets in Marca it's a distinct possibility that they will knock on his door one day, but if the realistic options are down to one we shouldn't be worried about losing him.
It might eventually, but don't most teams moving to a new stadium suffer an initial downturn in performances whilst everyone gets used to playing there?
Next season could be very chaotic for them. Where are they playing home games?
Next season could be very difficult I agree - we will play all our home games at Wembley.
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