The Spurs thread | 2016-2017 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned

Will Spurs finish in top 4 in the upcoming season?

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Dec9003 said:
The United squad is better than Spurs' beyond your good starting eleven your squad is limited. That's not to mention that you rely far too heavily on a certain couple of players.
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The starting XI is part of the wider squad, so can't simply be excluded when comparing squads. And even when it comes to the 2nd XI, Spurs have better players than United in several positions.

As for the rest, most teams rely heavily on two or three players. For example, would United even be 6th in the league without Zlatan's goals so far?
 
SwansonsTache said:
:lol:
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That's about all you have when left with when trying to explain why United aren't doing better in the league.

I keep hearing about all your money, all your "world class" players, "world class" prospects and "the best" manager in the world ... and yet here we are.
 
GlastonSpur said:
That's about all you have when left with when trying to explain why United aren't doing better in the league.

I keep hearing about all your money, all your "world class" players, "world class" prospects and "the best" manager in the world ... and yet here we are.
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Oh @GlastonSpur it will be delightful soon :lol:. You're right then, you're the best, happy? Let's see if you are the best for the whole season.
 
finneh said:
... My post was regarding whether he'll have the funds to bring in the caliber of player he see's as necessary for the continued improvement of the squad.
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Spurs don't need much money to improve the squad further, as our very low net spend in recent seasons shows.

This is partly because we'll continue to follow the same path that has served us well in recent seasons (namely bringing players through from our academy), and partly because the squad will likely improve anyway due to its young average.
 
Gasolin said:
Oh @GlastonSpur it will be delightful soon :lol:. You're right then, you're the best, happy? Let's see if you are the best for the whole season.
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I haven't said we're the best. I've simply said that United don't have a better squad than us.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Spurs don't need much money to improve the squad further, as our very low net spend in recent seasons shows.

This is partly because we'll continue to follow the same path that has served us well in recent seasons (namely bringing players through from our academy), and partly because the squad will likely improve anyway due to its young average.
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The low net spend over recent years is primarily due to the clearing out of your bloated squad that had 16-18 players of mid table quality that were saleable for £5-12m each.

That was literally the question in the post: how is Pochettino going to continue improving the squad (after spending £150m over the last few years), now that his central source of funds has been depleted?

Of course the likes of Alli and Kane are likely to get better (albeit with the natural inconsistencies of form that young players show), but one of the key reasons for Pochettino's success has been the £150m of talent he's brought in.

Also who are these plethora of players that have come through the academy (particularly under Pochettino)? I count Kane, Rose and Walker over the past 10 years or am I missing something?
 
finneh said:
The low net spend over recent years is primarily due to the clearing out of your bloated squad that had 16-18 players of mid table quality that were saleable for £5-12m each.

That was literally the question in the post: how is Pochettino going to continue improving the squad (after spending £150m over the last few years), now that his central source of funds has been depleted?

Of course the likes of Alli and Kane are likely to get better (albeit with the natural inconsistencies of form that young players show), but one of the key reasons for Pochettino's success has been the £150m of talent he's brought in.

Also who are these plethora of players that have come through the academy (particularly under Pochettino)? I count Kane, Rose and Walker over the past 10 years or am I missing something?
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I guess Glaston can provide his academy list when you provide the list for that 150mil.

Under Pochettino's tenure purchases like Dele, Alderweireld, Wanyama, and Dier have become key players, but not a single one of them cost over 15. More expensive players like Son and Sissoko have costed more, but aren't so key. Also those deals likely have different tie ins and their rumoured cost can't be purely taken at face value. Sissoko rumoured to be 6 mil per year while he's at the club instead of 30 mil and Son's ~25mil deal likely has some tie ins for South Korean investment into the club.

That said, we will still have players to sell in order to bring in money for further investment.

We also have a kit deal, sponsor deal, and new stadium naming rights coming up. So I'm unsure of how much of that money will be going towards the stadium and how much may be going to squad improvements.
 
finneh said:
The low net spend over recent years is primarily due to the clearing out of your bloated squad that had 16-18 players of mid table quality that were saleable for £5-12m each.

That was literally the question in the post: how is Pochettino going to continue improving the squad (after spending £150m over the last few years), now that his central source of funds has been depleted?

Of course the likes of Alli and Kane are likely to get better (albeit with the natural inconsistencies of form that young players show), but one of the key reasons for Pochettino's success has been the £150m of talent he's brought in.

Also who are these plethora of players that have come through the academy (particularly under Pochettino)? I count Kane, Rose and Walker over the past 10 years or am I missing something?
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It's only Kane.

Rose and Walker came through other clubs.

The rest haven't actually amounted to anything yet.

Very over-rated academy (well by Glaston at least).
 
Sweech said:
I guess Glaston can provide his academy list when you provide the list for that 150mil.

Under Pochettino's tenure purchases like Dele, Alderweireld, Wanyama, and Dier have become key players, but not a single one of them cost over 15. More expensive players like Son and Sissoko have costed more, but aren't so key. Also those deals likely have different tie ins and their rumoured cost can't be purely taken at face value. Sissoko rumoured to be 6 mil per year while he's at the club instead of 30 mil and Son's ~25mil deal likely has some tie ins for South Korean investment into the club.

That said, we will still have players to sell in order to bring in money for further investment.

We also have a kit deal, sponsor deal, and new stadium naming rights coming up. So I'm unsure of how much of that money will be going towards the stadium and how much may be going to squad improvements.
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I didn't say every player he signed is key. I said one of the key reasons behind his success was his ability to go out and spend £150m. You can't cherry pick the huge successes, whilst ignoring the flops - it's a package deal. He's spent £150m and those purchases make up half of your squad and half of your first XI.

In terms of Sissoko £6m per year for 5 years is £30m and however you want to justify Son isn't my concern. Only a deluded United fan for instance would try to justify Pogba's fee with shirt sales.
 
finneh said:
I didn't say every player he signed is key. I said one of the key reasons behind his success was his ability to go out and spend £150m. You can't cherry pick the huge successes, whilst ignoring the flops - it's a package deal. He's spent £150m and those purchases make up half of your squad and half of your first XI.

In terms of Sissoko £6m per year for 5 years is £30m and however you want to justify Son isn't my concern. Only a deluded United fan for instance would try to justify Pogba's fee with shirt sales.
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Okay? So let's say everything you have here is above board and totally correct.

150 mil. Over three years. 50 mil per year correct?

Fazio, Njie, Bentaleb, Carroll being sold should raise about 40-45 right there for next season. Wouldn't be surprised if Davies or Trippier move on and that probably becomes 50 mil again.

I'm failing to see the issue here. Not to mention we basically had a zero net-spend before the Sissoko purchase, so it's not like we absolutely must have a zero net spend again.
 
Kraftwerker said:
It's only Kane.

Rose and Walker came through other clubs.

The rest haven't actually amounted to anything yet.

Very over-rated academy (well by Glaston at least).
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It's far from an overrated academy, just look around the other PL clubs and you'll see there are Spurs graduates aplenty. Bentaleb is off for £17m is that amounting to nothing? Townsend £12m, Mason £10m, Livermore £8m and there's a fair few more.

Last season Spurs and Arsenal had the most academy players playing in the PL with 11 each.

And Danny Rose technically is an academy graduate as he was a member of the Spurs academy.

Now we have another one in Harry Winks who is already part of the match day fabric and looks very good, CCV isn't far behind either and has every chance of being a Spurs regular within the next couple of years.
 
Kraftwerker said:
It's only Kane.

Rose and Walker came through other clubs.

The rest haven't actually amounted to anything yet.

Very over-rated academy (well by Glaston at least).
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Wrong.

* Rose was at our academy - see wikipedia: "A regular for both the Tottenham Hotspur Academy and Reserves"
* Harry Winks, Carter-Vickers and Onomah are part of our first team squad.
* Several of our academy players have been (or will be) sold for decent money - e.g. Mason, Livermore, Bentaleb, Pritchard, Caulker, Townsend, and Carroll this summer most likely - which has all contributed to our low net spend.

Even Walker, though not part of the academy, joined us at the age of 19, and Dier and Alli were even younger when they signed.
 
Sweech said:
Okay? So let's say everything you have here is above board and totally correct.

150 mil. Over three years. 50 mil per year correct?

Fazio, Njie, Bentaleb, Carroll being sold should raise about 40-45 right there for next season. Wouldn't be surprised if Davies or Trippier move on and that probably becomes 50 mil again.

I'm failing to see the issue here. Not to mention we basically had a zero net-spend before the Sissoko purchase, so it's not like we absolutely must have a zero net spend again.
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Bentaleb is contracted to go to Schalke for £17m in the Summer, Fazio has completed now for £3m, so there's £20m in the bin plus what we get for Carroll, N'Jie and I think Davies and Janssen. Somewhere between £50-60m seems about right.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
It's far from an overrated academy, just look around the other PL clubs and you'll see there are Spurs graduates aplenty. Bentaleb is off for £17m is that amounting to nothing? Townsend £12m, Mason £10m, Livermore £8m and there's a fair few more.

Last season Spurs and Arsenal had the most academy players playing in the PL with 11 each.

And Danny Rose technically is an academy graduate as he was a member of the Spurs academy.

Now we have another one in Harry Winks who is already part of the match day fabric and looks very good, CCV isn't far behind either and has every chance of being a Spurs regular within the next couple of years.
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So just Kane then.

Oh and Man United have about 30 academy graduates playing in the PL so your other stat is nonsense too.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Wrong.

* Rose was at our academy - see wikipedia: "A regular for both the Tottenham Hotspur Academy and Reserves"
* Harry Winks, Carter-Vickers and Onomah are part of our first team squad.
* Several of our academy players have been (or will be) sold for decent money - e.g. Mason, Livermore, Bentaleb, Pritchard, Caulker, Townsend, and Carroll this summer most likely - which has all contributed to our low net spend.

Even Walker, though not part of the academy, joined us at the age of 19, and Dier and Alli were even younger when they signed.
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Rose came from Leeds. You signed him for £1m.

Kane is only top level player you've brought through.

The others are still proving themselves.

None of those players sold made any impact at Spurs. Never have beens. Never will bes.
 
Kraftwerker said:
Rose came from Leeds. You signed him for £1m.

Kane is only top level player you've brought through.

The others are still proving themselves.

None of those players sold made any impact at Spurs. Never have beens. Never will bes.
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Some of those players did have an impact at Spurs and when needed done a job for us.
 
What's the yard-stick for an academy player?

I class Januzaj and Fosu-Mensah as academy players even though they joined Utd at 16 years of age. However others may not as a bulk of their youth development were done at other clubs.
 
finneh said:
I didn't say every player he signed is key. I said one of the key reasons behind his success was his ability to go out and spend £150m. You can't cherry pick the huge successes, whilst ignoring the flops - it's a package deal. He's spent £150m and those purchases make up half of your squad and half of your first XI.

In terms of Sissoko £6m per year for 5 years is £30m and however you want to justify Son isn't my concern. Only a deluded United fan for instance would try to justify Pogba's fee with shirt sales.
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Pochettino's net spend has averaged just £7.7m per season at Spurs - and the squad had improved considerably. Yet you are trying to argue that a key reason for his success has been money, and now you are trying to argue that a lack of money will prevent the squad from improving further. Your argument doesn't add up.
 
Kraftwerker said:
Rose came from Leeds. You signed him for £1m.

Kane is only top level player you've brought through.

The others are still proving themselves.

None of those players sold made any impact at Spurs. Never have beens. Never will bes.
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Rose was part of our academy for a while and joined us aged 16 ... yet Spurs didn't bring him through into becoming perhaps the best LB in the Prem? :lol:
 
Kraftwerker said:
So just Kane then.

Oh and Man United have about 30 academy graduates playing in the PL so your other stat is nonsense too.
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Yep you're right Utd do have more graduates playing around the league, but the Spurs number us actually higher as well. So the point remains it's far from an overrated academy.

Even if it was just Kane, which is a nonsense, I suspect the club would still be satisfied to have produced a player that would if he was sold today likely be the most expensive player in the league.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
Yep you're right Utd do have more graduates playing around the league, but the Spurs number us actually higher as well. So the point remains it's far from an overrated academy.

Even if it was just Kane, which is a nonsense, I suspect the club would still be satisfied to have produced a player that would if he was sold today likely be the most expensive player in the league.
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Pogba
 
Kraftwerker said:
You signed him from Leeds. Hope this helps.

If we're generous and give you that one, it's two top players in a generation.

It's not exactly an exemplary institution.
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It makes no difference. Pogba was signed from Le Havre ... but so what.
 
Greatest annoyance of the natural order being disturbed the last three years is overly bullish supporters of smaller clubs.

Will be a great day when order is restored and the hierarchy is put back in place.

* white text, please bite*
 
Omar Little said:
You think Kane goes for £90m? Like, Harry Kane, £90m?
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Only last week I was reading that Utd were considering offering £80m plus.

Not that we would sell but that's what he would cost. Players are expensive these days, who could imagine somebody paying £80 odd mill for Pogba, but it happened.
 
Kraftwerker said:
So two players that have made a top level impact at THFC, over the space of almost 20 years.

Better than nothing I guess.
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There aren't many top level players so most academies don't produce many. You done well to have an exceptional class about a quarter of a century ago. But like most others you've not produced much in the way of top level players in recent memory. Just look around the top clubs it's not easy and even one is a result.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
Only last week I was reading that Utd were considering offering £80m plus.

Not that we would sell but that's what he would cost. Players are expensive these days, who could imagine somebody paying £80 odd mill for Pogba, but it happened.
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The reason we paid a WR fee for Pogba is because he is an elite level CM. Up there with the very best. Do you think Harry Kane is an elite level striker? Up there with Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar, Suarez, Zlatan, Aguero, Costa, etc.?
 
SirHenryPercy said:
There aren't many top level players so most academies don't produce many. You done well to have an exceptional class about a quarter of a century ago. But like most others you've not produced much in the way of top level players in recent memory. Just look around the top clubs it's not easy and even one is a result.
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We've produced a shit load of league winning players since the Class of 92. Not just in this country either. Serie A and La Liga winners too.

I'm not saying that a Spurs graduate has to win the league to be considered top level (otherwise you'd have zero) but at least make a tangible impact on the first team and have some measure of success beside your name.
 
CM10 said:
Who do you think would pay a world record fee for Kane, out of interest?
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The way it's going £90m probably won't be seen as that much soon.

Kane is young, English and despite missing 8 weeks has a fair chance of hitting 20+ PL goals for the 3rd successive season. Whether you rate him or not that makes him valuable, very valuable and very expensive, clubs will pay huge figures for that sort of strike rate.
 
Kraftwerker said:
We've produced a shit load of league winning players since the Class of 92. Not just in this country either. Serie A and La Liga winners too.

I'm not saying that a Spurs graduate has to win the league to be considered top level (otherwise you'd have zero) but at least make a tangible impact on the first team and have some measure of success beside your name.
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In the last 5 years, I'm going to assume you had one or two at Leicester?

Serie A and La Liga winners is actually impressive, who are they?
 
Omar Little said:
The reason we paid a WR fee for Pogba is because he is an elite level CM. Up there with the very best. Do you think Harry Kane is an elite level striker? Up there with Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar, Suarez, Zlatan, Aguero, Costa, etc.?
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Lol ... up there with the likes of Modric, Iniesta, Xavi, Busquets etc etc. I think not.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
The way it's going £90m probably won't be seen as that much soon.

Kane is young, English and despite missing 8 weeks has a fair chance of hitting 20+ PL goals for the 3rd successive season. Whether you rate him or not that makes him valuable, very valuable and very expensive, clubs will pay huge figures for that sort of strike rate.
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You said you'd get a world record fee if you sold him today, no?
 
Omar Little said:
The reason we paid a WR fee for Pogba is because he is an elite level CM. Up there with the very best. Do you think Harry Kane is an elite level striker? Up there with Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar, Suarez, Zlatan, Aguero, Costa, etc.?
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No I don't think Kane is elite level, neither do I think Pogba is elite level and up there with the very best CM players but he still went for £80m.

Kane despite starting as a kid has a better PL record than Costa who started as an experienced player, it makes my point that a young English player capable of scoring 20+ PL goals a season on a regular basis is very valuable.

How much do you think Spurs would take for Kane?
 
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