The Spurs thread | 2016-2017 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned

Will Spurs finish in top 4 in the upcoming season?

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montpelier said:
Eriksen can certainly play, I've seen do some really good stuff. Maybe he feels slightly sidelined from main playmaker by Delle Alli.

I have Lamela placed somewhere between poor & hopeless. He cannot be the answer to any sensible question.

Will the new ground have a new (sponsors) name or still be WHL, fans will call it WHL still presumably
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Ground sponsorship is underway with the Qatari Government (much to my dismay).

Money isn't everything, we need our soul in tact.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
Ground sponsorship is underway with the Qatari Government (much to my dismay).

Money isn't everything, we need our soul in tact.
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This is completely next door though isn't it? It couldn't actually be anymore next door could it? From what I saw on the maps when the building 'accidentally' burnt down not so long back. I think the soul of the club persists in the short-medium term if everyone still calls it WHL which seems entirely fair & logical to me. What else would you call it?

But of course, whatever the Qatari nonsense name happens to be becomes constantly stated on the Formal side, where contracts are involved, isn't it? Which is just silly/annoying if it then changes every 3 years. I don't think the old names go away though, if there is no geographical change.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
Ground sponsorship is underway with the Qatari Government (much to my dismay).

Money isn't everything, we need our soul in tact.
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The new stadium is being built on virtually the same spot as the original stadium so in that sense 'our soul' will remain intact and we all will call it WHL whoever the sponsor is - Money is pretty much everything though, I disagree on that point - otherwise why would we be building a new stadium? Get it sponsored by whoever pays the most is what I say and get the cash rolling in.
 
montpelier said:
This is completely next door though isn't it? It couldn't actually be anymore next door could it? From what I saw on the maps when the building 'accidentally' burnt down not so long back. I think the soul of the club persists in the short-medium term if everyone still calls it WHL which seems entirely fair & logical to me. What else would you call it?

But of course, whatever the Qatari nonsense name happens to be becomes constantly stated on the Formal side, where contracts are involved, isn't it? Which is just silly/annoying if it then changes every 3 years. I don't think the old names go away though, if there is no geographical change.
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It's basically the same site, the new ground will cover half of where the old ground will have stood, which is why we can't play there next season.

You maybe right seeing that it's the same site, I hope so as even I cringe when I hear Arsenal fans calling their ground the Emirates.

It's The Qatari Foundation, the same people who currently sponsor Barcas shirts under the guise of Qatari Airways. This year 60,000 plus Barca members signed a petition for the club to change shirt sponsor, I know how the feel.
 
balaks said:
The new stadium is being built on virtually the same spot as the original stadium so in that sense 'our soul' will remain intact and we all will call it WHL whoever the sponsor is - Money is pretty much everything though, I disagree on that point - otherwise why would we be building a new stadium? Get it sponsored by whoever pays the most is what I say and get the cash rolling in.
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Would you be happy if we played in red shirts for money, like Cardiff had to? Or they tried to change our name like Hull were facing?

We need to be careful where these things stop!

Ultimately football clubs need to belong to the fans, not investors, sponsors or even owners, as Utd fans know only too well. Theirs a fine balance required.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
Would you be happy if we played in red shirts for money, like Cardiff had to? Or they tried to change our name like Hull were facing?

We need to be careful where these things stop!

Ultimately football clubs need to belong to the fans, not investors, sponsors or even owners, as Utd fans know only too well. Theirs a fine balance required.
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We are not talking about that though are we - we are talking about sponsorship for the new stadium - it's pretty standard fare in the new world of football and not something I'm worried about at all, in fact I'd encourage it if it means we get an extra £100 million in the bank. Spurs will still be Spurs, we will still play at WHL (as the stadium hasnt moved) - nothing to see here apart from a massive wad of cash.
 
balaks said:
We are not talking about that though are we - we are talking about sponsorship for the new stadium - it's pretty standard fare in the new world of football and not something I'm worried about at all, in fact I'd encourage it if it means we get an extra £100 million in the bank. Spurs will still be Spurs, we will still play at WHL (as the stadium hasnt moved) - nothing to see here apart from a massive wad of cash.
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Just a difference of opinion, personally I would rather not have Qatari government money staining our club.

To make you feel better they are talking about £150m.
 
The Qatari option is just one of many stadium-naming-rights possibilities being explored. It's not an agreed deal.
 
balaks said:
Dier had a poor game, no doubt about that although mostly he has been superb in midfield for us so one poor game does not define him as a player - I'm sure you would agree with that.

Dembele is obviously an important player for us - your opinion on Eriksen and Lamela are not what I would agree with - I think both are certainly of the required level to play CL football although admitably neither are in great form right now (nor is the entire team imo - we look sluggish and havent shrugged off the disappointment of the last few games of the previous season. They need to sort it out quickly).
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If you consider what he's being do in midfield as superb then you must not understand the standard of player needed to be effective against the best clubs in the world. The guy is irrelevant when Spurs have the ball and no team can afford that unless they have a football genius next to him, you guys don't. We'll agree to disagree on Lamela and Eriksen, I've never rated either.
 
RooneyLegend said:
If you consider what he's being do in midfield as superb then you must not understand the standard of player needed to be effective against the best clubs in the world. The guy is irrelevant when Spurs have the ball and no team can afford that unless they have a football genius next to him, you guys don't. We'll agree to disagree on Lamela and Eriksen, I've never rated either.
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So let me get this straight - Dier should only be played in midfield if a team has a 'football genius' next to him. So by football genius I expect you mean a player of the standard of Iniesta, Messi, etc. - not too many of those 'football genius' level players around in world football, even less playing in England. Damn I guess Dier probably should just retire because I don't think Iniesta is coming to Spurs anytime soon. What a waste of money he was in that case. What on earth is Poch doing? Poch out, burn down WHL and kill Daniel Levy please. I am DISGUSTED.
 
balaks said:
So let me get this straight - Dier should only be played in midfield if a team has a 'football genius' next to him. So by football genius I expect you mean a player of the standard of Iniesta, Messi, etc. - not too many of those 'football genius' level players around in world football, even less playing in England. Damn I guess Dier probably should just retire because I don't think Iniesta is coming to Spurs anytime soon. What a waste of money he was in that case. What on earth is Poch doing? Poch out, burn down WHL and kill Daniel Levy please. I am DISGUSTED.
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No. Players like Dier can always find a smaller club that will be happy to play them and let them develop. Kind of what is happening right now.

I think what he means is that a player of Dier's current ability will not make the 11 at the bigger clubs United, City and such.
 
AshfordLad said:
No. Players like Dier can always find a smaller club that will be happy to play them and let them develop. Kind of what is happening right now.

I think what he means is that a player of Dier's current ability will not make the 11 at the bigger clubs United, City and such.
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Lol ok mate. I see we have found the two jokers in the thread.
 
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balaks said:
So let me get this straight - Dier should only be played in midfield if a team has a 'football genius' next to him. So by football genius I expect you mean a player of the standard of Iniesta, Messi, etc. - not too many of those 'football genius' level players around in world football, even less playing in England. Damn I guess Dier probably should just retire because I don't think Iniesta is coming to Spurs anytime soon. What a waste of money he was in that case. What on earth is Poch doing? Poch out, burn down WHL and kill Daniel Levy please. I am DISGUSTED.
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A bit over dramatic but oh well. What I was getting to is that the only way you can carry someone like Dier in midfield at that level of competition is to have an extremely gifted ball player next him, I.e the same way Pirlo carried all the ball playing responsibilities when he used to play at the base of midfield with Gattuso. While Dembele is phenomenal on the ball and one of the best midfielders in the league in that respect, he doesn't do much with it since he is a mediocre passer with an even more mediocre football brain.
 
AshfordLad said:
No. Players like Dier can always find a smaller club that will be happy to play them and let them develop. Kind of what is happening right now.

I think what he means is that a player of Dier's current ability will not make the 11 at the bigger clubs United, City and such.
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You obviously haven't noticed that an incredibly limited footballer called Fellaini is playing at Utd, or realise that teams are made up of players who bring different qualities to the table. Keep watching and you'll start to understand it one day.
 
RooneyLegend said:
A bit over dramatic but oh well. What I was getting to is that the only way you can carry someone like Dier in midfield at that level of competition is to have an extremely gifted ball player next him, I.e the same way Pirlo carried all the ball playing responsibilities when he used to play at the base of midfield with Gattuso. While Dembele is phenomenal on the ball and one of the best midfielders in the league in that respect, he doesn't do much with it since he is a mediocre passer with an even more mediocre football brain.
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It seems he's not the only one.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Makelele was limited but a great player despite this.
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Absolutely - it appears that some people write off players who's primary focus is on breaking up the play, recovering the ball and generally having a defensive focus in the midfield area. A lot of teams have had success with players like that in the team and one of the good things about the likes of Dier is that he is able to slot into defense without any problems when required. Just because he may not be particularly skilled at attacking football (though I would argue he has improved his passing and is capable of accurate long passes forward) does not mean he is useless or a poor player. Not all good players are necessarily particularly talented footballers, they may perform a specific role very well and as a result are valued highly.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Makelele was limited but a great player despite this.
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Precisely, sticking with the same club both Matic and Mikel are talent wise limited footballers. There are central midfield players up and down the PL with more ability than these two, probably in the Championship as well, however they aren't as functional and don't neccessarily fit a desired system as well as Matic and Mikel.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Makelele was limited but a great player despite this.
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He's no Makelele, nowhere close. Anyways did you notice how Makelele played his best football when he was surrounded by players who basically took all the ball playing responsibility off his hands?
 
RooneyLegend said:
He's no Makelele, nowhere close. Anyways did you notice how Makelele played his best football when he was surrounded by players who basically took all the ball playing responsibility off his hands?
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Is he as good as Mikel, Matic, Wanyama, Coquelin, Elneny, Fellaini, Lucas?

All players at clubs that will be fighting for top 4 this season.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
Is he as good as Mikel, Matic, Wanyama, Coquelin, Elneny, Fellaini, Lucas?

All players at clubs that will be fighting for top 4 this season.
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Mikel wont be playing much this season, he's not as good as Matic, Wanyama wont be playing much himself, Coquelin always gets played with someone that'll mask his lack of football ability, Elneny wont play much, lord knows we need a solution for our Fellaini woes and Lucas plays more in the back nowadays. So what's the thinking, cause other clubs have mediocre players its fine for spurs to do the same? Doesn't seem like a strategy that'll lead to serious progression.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Mikel wont be playing much this season, he's not as good as Matic, Wanyama wont be playing much himself, Coquelin always gets played with someone that'll mask his lack of football ability, Elneny wont play much, lord knows we need a solution for our Fellaini woes and Lucas plays more in the back nowadays. So what's the thinking, cause other clubs have mediocre players its fine for spurs to do the same? Doesn't seem like a strategy that'll lead to serious progression.
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No the thinking is that all teams, certainly in England need functional players who are utilised with specific skill sets to carry out specific jobs.

If you had any idea at all how Spurs are set up to play, what Dier in particular and indeed whoever is partnering him in the 2 are most in there to do we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
 
Winks signing a new 4 yr deal. Is he close to starting any time soon then? I'll be interested to see him in the Carling cup.
 
Lash said:
Winks signing a new 4 yr deal. Is he close to starting any time soon then? I'll be interested to see him in the Carling cup.
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I'd expect him to play a big part in the Carling Cup and regularly makes the bench - he is highly regarded in the club and performed very well in our pre-season friendlies so I hope he gets a chance.
 
Lash said:
good to hear. Not that England really needs another midfielder!
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True - I cant see Winks being a world beater but he certainly could develop into a useful squad player for us which would be great. Marcus Edwards on the other hand is a really superb talent for his age and could potentially be a big player for us and England in the future.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Mikel wont be playing much this season, he's not as good as Matic, Wanyama wont be playing much himself, Coquelin always gets played with someone that'll mask his lack of football ability, Elneny wont play much, lord knows we need a solution for our Fellaini woes and Lucas plays more in the back nowadays. So what's the thinking, cause other clubs have mediocre players its fine for spurs to do the same? Doesn't seem like a strategy that'll lead to serious progression.
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You are very dull.
 
balaks said:
So let me get this straight - Dier should only be played in midfield if a team has a 'football genius' next to him. So by football genius I expect you mean a player of the standard of Iniesta, Messi, etc. - not too many of those 'football genius' level players around in world football, even less playing in England. Damn I guess Dier probably should just retire because I don't think Iniesta is coming to Spurs anytime soon. What a waste of money he was in that case. What on earth is Poch doing? Poch out, burn down WHL and kill Daniel Levy please. I am DISGUSTED.
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and the award for overreaction of the week goes to...

The guy made a fair point, Dier is a limited midfielder and needs a much more creative CM alongside him to be really effective. Every team needs a player like Dier though and he has plenty of time to develop his game.
 
This discussion reminds me of the Schneiderlin one in the other thread. It seems people still want the CMs to contribute at everything. Dier, like Schneiderlin has a specific role to play which does not include contributing massively to their team's attacking prowess. As long as they do their part well, they're absolutely fine. The attacking onus is on the 5 players ahead of them. The days of the "can do everything" CMs are long gone.
 
BobbyManc said:
and the award for overreaction of the week goes to...

The guy made a fair point, Dier is a limited midfielder and needs a much more creative CM alongside him to be really effective. Every team needs a player like Dier though and he has plenty of time to develop his game.
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I was clearly joking in my response (to emphasise the original posters ridiculously over the top statement) - if you are looking for an over-reaction of the week I suggest you look at the chap who felt Dier could only play in midfield if he had a 'football genius' beside him. There is your over-reaction.
 
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Varun said:
This discussion reminds me of the Schneiderlin one in the other thread. It seems people still want the CMs to contribute at everything. Dier, like Schneiderlin has a specific role to play which does not include contributing massively to their team's attacking prowess. As long as they do their part well, they're absolutely fine. The attacking onus is on the 5 players ahead of them. The days of the "can do everything" CMs are long gone.
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Glad to have somebody start to talk with a bit of sense - exactly right, we cant all be blessed with highly talented players who can do every aspect of a midfield role to an exceptional standard - most are better at the attacking side or the defensive side. For somebody to start using the word 'mediocre' when describing Dier because he is not an attacking midfielder is kinda dumb and shows a very narrow minded view of football.
 
balaks said:
I was clearly joking in my response (to emphasise the original posters ridiculously over the top statement) - if you are looking for an over-reaction of the week I suggest you look at the chap who felt Dier could only play in midfield if he had a 'midfield genius' beside him. There is your over-reaction.
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Yeah you were clearly joking but I don't think the original comment merited that response. You could have just rebutted it normally, his phrase was a bit hyperbolic and that was all.
 
BobbyManc said:
Yeah you were clearly joking but I don't think the original comment merited that response. You could have just rebutted it normally, his phrase was a bit hyperbolic and that was all.
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It was a bit more than that - 'football genius'? Anyway, I thought my post would have been clearly seen as a joke and not to be taken seriously - I guess it maybe got lost in translation. His assertion made me laugh quite a lot so I thought I would respond with an amusing response (perhaps only amusing to me in retrospect!).
 
Varun said:
This discussion reminds me of the Schneiderlin one in the other thread. It seems people still want the CMs to contribute at everything. Dier, like Schneiderlin has a specific role to play which does not include contributing massively to their team's attacking prowess. As long as they do their part well, they're absolutely fine. The attacking onus is on the 5 players ahead of them. The days of the "can do everything" CMs are long gone.
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This is why Spurs wanted to sign Schneiderlin before he went to Utd and probably still retain an interest.

Anybody who watches Spurs regularly will know that the 4-2-3-1 paper formation is just that and regularly morphs into a back 3 or 2 with 1 (Dier) holding ground in front of the 2 split CB's. It's quite interesting to read that people completely misunderstand Dembele's role in the set-up as well, he's not an attacking CM player, he's a player who is used to back up the attacking play, recycle the ball and snuff out breaks. Our attacking block is actually the CF, the 3 behind and the 2 FB's. Rarely will you see the 2 CM players ahead of the ball once it's beyond the opponents side of the centre circle, whereas the FB's are gone.

When out of possession the 2 CM's sit right in to initially allow where possible the front 6 to press and when the press isn't on to buy time and coverage for especially the FB's and the line of 3 to get back into a defensive shape.

This is why the most effective way to play Spurs is to push our FB's back as sometimes we can't find an answer, Liverpool did this very well against us the other week.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
Ground sponsorship is underway with the Qatari Government (much to my dismay).

Money isn't everything, we need our soul in tact.
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Good on you buddy. Hard to football fans to look outside football sometimes and consider the bigger picture.
 
We have to be happy with our start, 11 points without hitting our straps at all.

Lots and lots of room for improvement but a decent points return so far.
 
Dier and Dembele not injured, says Pochettino, just taken off due to cramps and will be fine.

Kane, however, is a big worry. His ankle will be scanned tomorrow.
 
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