The Spurs thread | 2016-2017 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned

Will Spurs finish in top 4 in the upcoming season?

  • Yes

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We'veGotDeleAlli said:
It's fair enough to rate him as highly (he's very talented) but in terms of performances across the entire season he was below those three, at least in my opinion. I'm excited to see him next season though, as he really came in to his element in the second half of the season and nailed down that right hand side spot.

I think maybe you're overrating his performances slightly because they were such an improvement on his past showings.
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What's great is that we all have different opinions about who our best players are - when was the last time that was the case? Just proves to me how strong our first team is.
 
Amadaeus said:
Finally, another Spurs fan that share an opinion closer to fact than fiction with his initial post. Took one of you long enough to show up. No doubt Lamela improve a lot last season compared to the season before. However, his standard was much lower than the players you listed.
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Much lower is slightly harsh, he had a very respectable return in terms of goals/assists and offered solid work rate and tenacity which is important for our side. He wasn't as decisive or as much of a consistent threat as Eriksen or Alli throughout the season though, so I do agree those two were clearly better.

As for Dier, he was our rock throughout the season. Cut out more attacks than I care to remember, I'd certainly rather lose Lamela than him. He performed his role almost to perfection from the beginning of the season to the end.
 
We'veGotDeleAlli said:
Lamela was great and I expect him to continue to improve, but he was behind Alderweireld, Kane, Eriksen, Alli, Lloris, Dier and Dembele. I don't think you could argue any of those did their respective roles to a lower standard than he did. Arguably Rose too.

He's come a long way though, and towards the end of the season did start to become one of our better players.
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This is obviously unpopular opinion, but I didn't see Lloris as one of our best players last season. He's obviously an absolutely amazing player and a top 3 GK in my opinion, but we were so good defensively we had countless games where we only had 3 or under shots on target against the entire game. Some of those games we outscored what they even had on target, nullifying the importance of whoever was playing and some other games Lloris let in the only 1 or 2 shots on goal against - typically they were near impossible to save, but there were a couple poor ones the Sanchez equalizer and a few of the Newcastle ones for example.

I also disagree about Alli. He gave production, but sometimes he was incredibly frustrating (as 19 year olds are) and Lamela provided production (albeit less than Alli) combined with huge defensive work rate and a driving impetus when our team was sometimes lacking. An example being against Man City where we were really going into a shell and then Lamela drove up the field and fed a pass through Otamendi's legs for Eriksen's last minute winner.

I agree about all of Alderweireld, Dembele, Kane, Dier, and Eriksen though.
 
We'veGotDeleAlli said:
Much lower is slightly harsh, he had a very respectable return in terms of goals/assists and offered solid work rate and tenacity which is important for our side. He wasn't as decisive or as much of a consistent threat as Eriksen or Alli throughout the season though, so I do agree those two were clearly better.

As for Dier, he was our rock throughout the season. Cut out more attacks than I care to remember, I'd certainly rather lose Lamela than him. He performed his role almost to perfection from the beginning of the season to the end.
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I saw a pretty clear drop off in our side whenever Lamela was taken off and I believe we had a few winning results that turned into draws or losses because of him being taken off.
 
Sweech said:
This is obviously unpopular opinion, but I didn't see Lloris as one of our best players last season. He's obviously an absolutely amazing player and a top 3 GK in my opinion, but we were so good defensively we had countless games where we only had 3 or under shots on target against the entire game. Some of those games we outscored what they even had on target, nullifying the importance of whoever was playing and some other games Lloris let in the only 1 or 2 shots on goal against - typically they were near impossible to save, but there were a couple poor ones the Sanchez equalizer and a few of the Newcastle ones for example.

I also disagree about Alli. He gave production, but sometimes he was incredibly frustrating (as 19 year olds are) and Lamela provided production (albeit less than Alli) combined with huge defensive work rate and a driving impetus when our team was sometimes lacking. An example being against Man City where we were really going into a shell and then Lamela drove up the field and fed a pass through Otamendi's legs for Eriksen's last minute winner.
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I know what you are saying about Lloris however he is probably our only truely world class player so i'd be reluctant to downplay his importance to the team as he has a big part to play in organising the defense in front of him as well as being a top class shot stopper - his kicking is pretty crap though at times.

I also agree re: Alli - supremely talented and an incredible prospect but he isn't yet able to be influencial in a game as other players in the team are - it will come with experience but he still is a bit frustrating. He has the knack of popping up with the goals though which is like gold dust.
 
We'veGotDeleAlli said:
Much lower is slightly harsh, he had a very respectable return in terms of goals/assists and offered solid work rate and tenacity which is important for our side. He wasn't as decisive or as much of a consistent threat as Eriksen or Alli throughout the season though, so I do agree those two were clearly better.

As for Dier, he was our rock throughout the season. Cut out more attacks than I care to remember, I'd certainly rather lose Lamela than him. He performed his role almost to perfection from the beginning of the season to the end.
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Perhaps much lower is a bit harsh. Like I stated before, Lamela improved greatly last season under Pochettino. However, there were several other players that were better than him that makes it very hard to claim he was one of your best player. Your fans site awarded that to Alderweid, Lloris and Kane as their top three performer. Even though, I am sure Dembele, Dier and Eriksen could have easily contended against them. Lamela, not so much because his performance was lower than these players.
 
Sweech said:
This is obviously unpopular opinion, but I didn't see Lloris as one of our best players last season. He's obviously an absolutely amazing player and a top 3 GK in my opinion, but we were so good defensively we had countless games where we only had 3 or under shots on target against the entire game. Some of those games we outscored what they even had on target, nullifying the importance of whoever was playing and some other games Lloris let in the only 1 or 2 shots on goal against - typically they were near impossible to save, but there were a couple poor ones the Sanchez equalizer and a few of the Newcastle ones for example.

I also disagree about Alli. He gave production, but sometimes he was incredibly frustrating (as 19 year olds are) and Lamela provided production (albeit less than Alli) combined with huge defensive work rate and a driving impetus when our team was sometimes lacking. An example being against Man City where we were really going into a shell and then Lamela drove up the field and fed a pass through Otamendi's legs for Eriksen's last minute winner.

I agree about all of Alderweireld, Dembele, Kane, Dier, and Eriksen though.
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Lloris was great, he was a big reason for our defensive record in my opinion. He had a few errors of course, but there's maybe 2 goalkeepers in the world who don't make a few mistakes a season. Sure, we had many games when he wasn't called in to action but there were times when he won us games on his own with some incredible reaction saves. I'd say he won us more points than Lamela last season, but he is probably the most arguable on my list.

Of course he was frustratng but he managed 10 goals and 9 assists in the league, including some crucial game winning moments. The Palace goal stands out of course, at the time we were struggling to open them up and he produced a moment of absolute brilliance. He's a match winner, something I don't quite believe Lamela is yet. I agree with Lamela's defensive work rate though, he was immense in that respect.
 
Amadaeus said:
Perhaps much lower is a bit harsh. Like I stated before, Lamela improved greatly last season under Pochettino. However, there were several other players that were better than him that makes it very hard to claim he was one of your best player. Your fans site awarded that to Alderweid, Lloris and Kane as their top three performer. Even though, I am sure Dembele, Dier and Eriksen could have easily contended against them. Lamela, not so much because his performance was lower than these players.
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Yeah, no chance he was outright our best player. That has to go to Alderweireld or Dembele for me.
 
Sweech said:
I saw a pretty clear drop off in our side whenever Lamela was taken off and I believe we had a few winning results that turned into draws or losses because of him being taken off.
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Arsenal game stands out, but I think that's a lot to do with the fact we kept bringing him off for Mason, who was poor in his natural position, let alone in a wide player. Offered absolutely no threat at all and allowed an under pressure Arsenal to come back at us.
 
We'veGotDeleAlli said:
Yeah, no chance he was outright our best player. That has to go to Alderweireld or Dembele for me.
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Alderweireld was our best player last season, closely followed by Dembele and Kane but like I said earlier, the fact we can all pick out 4 or 5 different players we all think are the best in the team just proves how strong we are. It's great.
 
balaks said:
Alderweireld was our best player last season, closely followed by Dembele and Kane but like I said earlier, the fact we can all pick out 4 or 5 different players we all think are the best in the team just proves how strong we are. It's great.
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Yeah, I'm loving our squad. So well balanced. Just hope we don't carry on from where we finished last season.
 
We'veGotDeleAlli said:
Lloris was great, he was a big reason for our defensive record in my opinion. He had a few errors of course, but there's maybe 2 goalkeepers in the world who don't make a few mistakes a season. Sure, we had many games when he wasn't called in to action but there were times when he won us games on his own with some incredible reaction saves. I'd say he won us more points than Lamela last season, but he is probably the most arguable on my list.

Of course he was frustratng but he managed 10 goals and 9 assists in the league, including some crucial game winning moments. The Palace goal stands out of course, at the time we were struggling to open them up and he produced a moment of absolute brilliance. He's a match winner, something I don't quite believe Lamela is yet. I agree with Lamela's defensive work rate though, he was immense in that respect.
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I really don't know how much I can credit our defensive work with Lloris instead of with Alderweireld and Dier. I mean Lloris was part of an absolutely putrid defense two years ago, so the difference really appears to be the addition/application of the other two rather than Lloris' organization. I also can't remember too many games where Lloris was the reason we won last year. In fact I remember a couple games last year people credited him with a "world class save" that I don't really think was - it was just the only save he had to make all game.

I 100% think he's a world class player, I just don't think the team had to call upon him much last year.
 
We'veGotDeleAlli said:
Yeah, I'm loving our squad. So well balanced. Just hope we don't carry on from where we finished last season.
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Me too, though the way Poch has spoken about his anger about the Newcastle debacle in particular was encouraging. He was absolutely furious and rightly so. I think he will come down very hard on some of the players he felt let the side down. I actually would not be surprised (though I'd be very disappointed) if Eriksen leaves before the window closes as I felt Poch was very angry with him in particular and as talented as he is you don't get the feeling he is a player you could rely on to try and push the team forward when playing badly (another reason I particularly like Lamela is because he has proved that he can do that). I hope I'm wrong though as I love Eriksen as a player.
 
balaks said:
Me too, though the way Poch has spoken about his anger about the Newcastle debacle in particular was encouraging. He was absolutely furious and rightly so. I think he will come down very hard on some of the players he felt let the side down. I actually would not be surprised (though I'd be very disappointed) if Eriksen leaves before the window closes as I felt Poch was very angry with him in particular and as talented as he is you don't get the feeling he is a player you could rely on to try and push the team forward when playing badly (another reason I particularly like Lamela is because he has proved that he can do that). I hope I'm wrong though as I love Eriksen as a player.
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I was absolutely fecking livid with the lot of them after Newcastle. People label it a 'bottle' but that's just incredibly lazy, to me it just looked like they couldn't be arsed, seemingly not really caring about 2nd or 3rd. Obviously didn't know what it meant to the fans, or just didn't care..
 
Maradona10 said:
With the job woody has done? i dont think so. If he is a talent spotter maybe we could do with another scout.
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What?

When does Woody scout players? He's not a scout or anything to do with football. He just does the negotiations. Just like Levy.
 
Very odd, but we obviously have no idea what's happening in the background with this decision.

Overall, he's done a solid job. Alderweireld, Dier and Alli are all brilliant signings. There's definitely been some questionable signings too though - Son, Stambouli, Trippier (decent backup to be fair), N'jie, Yedlin are the ones that spring to mind. That's football though, we don't have the finances to sign sure things so we're always going to have the odd miss.
 
Bojan11 said:
What?

When does Woody scout players? He's not a scout or anything to do with football. He just does the negotiations. Just like Levy.
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I though he was a negotiator. Hence mentioned if he is a scout he could be useful.
 
We'veGotDeleAlli said:
Very odd, but we obviously have no idea what's happening in the background with this decision.

Overall, he's done a solid job. Alderweireld, Dier and Alli are all brilliant signings. There's definitely been some questionable signings too though - Son, Stambouli, Trippier (decent backup to be fair), N'jie, Yedlin are the ones that spring to mind. That's football though, we don't have the finances to sign sure things so we're always going to have the odd miss.
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Pochettino's been formally given more power (think more manager and less coach) and supposedly he and Mitchell have had some disagreements that led to this.

He'd be a nice addition as a head scout, but rationally speaking he'd probably run into the same conflicts with Mourinho.
 
I'm surprised so many have said they will finish out of the 4. I'd say they're behind us and City, but on a par with Arsenal and probably Chelsea. I could see them improving next year with Kane and Alli, probably more so than Arsenal. I think they have every chance of finishing in the top 4 again.
 
septic said:
I'm surprised so many have said they will finish out of the 4. I'd say they're behind us and City, but on a par with Arsenal and probably Chelsea. I could see them improving next year with Kane and Alli, probably more so than Arsenal. I think they have every chance of finishing in the top 4 again.
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Not on par with Arsenal IMO. Spurs has only a slightly better centre back partnership and Kane is better than Giroud. But in term of attacking mid, Arsenal is so much better. None in Spurs attacking mid can compete with Ozil and Sanchez. This season won't be as easy as 2015/2016.
 
Mike09 said:
Not on par with Arsenal IMO. Spurs has only a slightly better centre back partnership and Kane is better than Giroud. But in term of attacking mid, Arsenal is so much better. None in Spurs attacking mid can compete with Ozil and Sanchez. This season won't be as easy as 2015/2016.
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It's pretty close. Agreed about attacking mids (Sanchez and Ozil at least), though I think you sell Eriksen a bit short. But I think the Spurs CBs, as a pairing, are more than slightly better. Koscielny is obviously good but Gabriel is awful. And that's their partnership for a long while until Mertesacker returns. Unless they've signed someone I don't know about?
 
On paper i'd say they're better than arsenal but they seem determined to find a way to finish below them every season so i expect more of the same.
Think Leicester are a better bet for top 4 too
Think chelsea, liverpool and west ham will all be around there too

My money would be on leicester and arsenal
Pretty impossible to call though

Would be interesting to see how leicester would react to a bad start
My confidence in them wouldn't last long tbh
 
Bizzare. Are their facilities that state of the art they no longer need someone to do recruitment?

In all seriousness, any Spurs fan have an insight?
 
Not pleased with the news about Mitchell and Mackenzie leaving after only about 2 years here.

Personally I hope they're simply looking for better opportunities for growth as Pochettino and McDermott have been given contract extensions and new jobs with greater responsibilities that may have blocked off Mitchell's and Mackenzie's opportunities for job growth.

That said Levy does have a long history of being too overbearing and demanding with scouting staffs and can't ever seem to find a good balance. I'm hoping we're going to keep the scouting infrastructure Mitchell built here and simply hire someone else in and keep it running as normal. Our official Twitter account gave statements from Mitchell and Levy which were amicable enough to make me hope this is the case.
 
Does Poch and McDermott oversee scouting and player recruitment then? A lot of responsibility on those two.
 
Paul Mitchell their Head of Recruitment is leaving and joining us in September replacing the departed Steve Walsh Sr, the scout they poached from us is leaving to become Derby's head of recruitment
 
Lash said:
Does Poch and McDermott oversee scouting and player recruitment then? A lot of responsibility on those two.
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No, I don't believe they do, they just play a hand in it.

We'll likely need to bring in (or promote) someone else to handle it at this point.
 
Sweech said:
No, I don't believe they do, they just play a hand in it.

We'll likely need to bring in (or promote) someone else to handle it at this point.
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Ah I see, I thought that was what you meant in your post above. Be interested to see who that might be.
 
Lash said:
Ah I see, I thought that was what you meant in your post above. Be interested to see who that might be.
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What I mean is the two of them (Pochettino & McDermott) have taken up tasks/responsibilities and likely get a larger voice in decision making than what is afforded to Mitchell and Mackenzie and because their "promotions" are so recent it essentially blocks off Mitchell and Mackenzie from growing their own influence at the club.

It's the same at any company really - If they did a restructure and assigned some of your responsibilities and decision making power elsewhere and left you with less influence than you previously had and essentially promoted others instead of yourself you'd likely move yourself on to where you can grow more. At least with Mackenzie that definitely appears to be the case as he's taken a demotion club wise to Derby, but in doing so has likely gained more responsibility and pulling power to implement his strategies better.
 
Certainly possible, though I think there are some major changes happening inside the Marseille set up and that's also playing a role in this deal breaking down.
 
BigDub said:
Certainly possible, though I think there are some major changes happening inside the Marseille set up and that's also playing a role in this deal breaking down.
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Correct, basically the entire negotiating team in Marseille have been changed and that has impacted on the agreed terms of transfer. Not sure what to make of Mitchell and MacKenzie leaving tbh - though if Mitchell has decided to go to Leicester I can only assume he was offered a great deal he couldn't refuse. It is a shame but I'm sure it won't affect things behind the scenes too much. As long as Pochettino is happy and content that is all that matters.
 
balaks said:
Correct, basically the entire negotiating team in Marseille have been changed and that has impacted on the agreed terms of transfer. Not sure what to make of Mitchell and MacKenzie leaving tbh - though if Mitchell has decided to go to Leicester I can only assume he was offered a great deal he couldn't refuse. It is a shame but I'm sure it won't affect things behind the scenes too much. As long as Pochettino is happy and content that is all that matters.
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I do wonder if the Mitchell thing has something to do with his ambition and our set up not allowing for it. In other words, he wants to be a Director of Football or some other similar position and, after the Baldini experiment, Spurs aren't going to accommodate that in the set up. Just something I've seen discussed and thought was interesting.

It's not an ideal departure, but it's not as if Poch or a key player have gone. Wish him the best.
 
Poch is quoted on Sky as saying the free spending clubs if the PL are doing so as they are unhappy with their current personnel and "desperate" to improve.

No shit.

He also said he is happy with his players and it is difficult for them to find players that improve on them.

Fair statement. They have a good team and do not have the clout to buy established players or highly rated youngsters.

In Kane and Alli they have two superstar in the making in my opinion.

I predict a tight race for top 4 but I make them 5th favourites for ending up there.
 
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