The Spurs thread | 2016-2017 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned

Will Spurs finish in top 4 in the upcoming season?

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UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Spurs fans need to realise that to obtain strength in depth you don't sign squad players.

You bring in similar or superior quality to what you have.

"Building depth" gets you Sissoko and Janssen. They should be chasing potential upgrades. Not understudies. Tough on a budget. But clearly possible
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We also bought Wanyama who has been an outstanding success. Every transfer is a gamble - Janssen hasnt worked out so far but it was a decent type of signing to make. Sissoko on the other hand... I'm still speechless.
 
balaks said:
We also bought Wanyama who has been an outstanding success. Every transfer is a gamble - Janssen hasnt worked out so far but it was a decent type of signing to make. Sissoko on the other hand... I'm still speechless.
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Most football fans were tbh. I think you'll actually have a pretty decent summer though with transfers as I think players are going to see you as a more attractive prospect with back to back CL qualifying and back to back top 3 finishes (I'm assuming you'll finish Top 3).
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Spurs fans need to realise that to obtain strength in depth you don't sign squad players.

You bring in similar or superior quality to what you have.

"Building depth" gets you Sissoko and Janssen. They should be chasing potential upgrades. Not understudies. Tough on a budget. But clearly possible
Click to expand...

I agree with you about Sissoko, but I'm prepared to give Janssen another season because he's only 22 and this is his first season in the Prem.

But building in depth has also brought us Trippier and Davies - both definite understudies to Walker and Rose, yet both very decent fullbacks in their own right who have come in when needed and mostly done a good job for us.

Contrary to my own expressed views at the time, I was told on here last summer by many folk that Spurs needed to focus on improving their first XI, rather than on squad development and bringing through youngsters, or else we had little or no chance of top 4 against the big-spenders. Well, it's not going too badly for us so far.

Alli has improved further, as have Walker and Rose, and we have brought in from our academy another diamond-in-the-making (IMO) ... young Harry Winks.
 
GlastonSpur said:
I agree with you about Sissoko, but I'm prepared to give Janssen another season because he's only 22 and this is his first season in the Prem.

But building in depth has also brought us Trippier and Davies - both definite understudies to Walker and Rose, yet both very decent fullbacks in their own right who have come in when needed and mostly done a good job for us.

Contrary to my own expressed views at the time, I was told on here last summer by many folk that Spurs needed to focus on improving their first XI, rather than on squad development and bringing through youngsters, or else we had little or no chance of top 4 against the big-spenders. Well, it's not going too badly for us so far.

Alli has improved further, as have Walker and Rose, and we have brought in from our academy another diamond-in-the-making (IMO) ... young Harry Winks.
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Davies is bang average and a clear weakness when you have to rely on him. Agreed with the rest though.
 
RedSky said:
Davies is bang average and a clear weakness when you have to rely on him. Agreed with the rest though.
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He can do a job but yeah he isn't good enough really. I expect him to be replaced in the summer with a younger Rose type left-back - possibly that kid from Fulham.
 
balaks said:
He can do a job but yeah he isn't good enough really. I expect him to be replaced in the summer with a younger Rose type left-back - possibly that kid from Fulham.
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Ryan Sessegnon, yeah he'd be a great shout. Although perhaps a touch too young, but could certainly buy him and have Davies about as well for another Season with the view of using Sessegnon if he looks up for it, he's turning 17 soon after all.
 
RedSky said:
Davies is bang average and a clear weakness when you have to rely on him. Agreed with the rest though.
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Agree about both Davies and Sissoko, although last season Davies was a lot better imo, not sure what happened. Still a decent option to have since I doubt he's on a lot of money, and doesn't seem to be the type who complain about lack of gametime, but I won't be surprised if he is replaced by a younger understudy to Rose if we find one.

Regarding Sissoko, I'm not sure what the logic behind the signing was even, give us an option to play a more direct style with someone who can carry the ball? Doesn't seem to have worked out at all, and was a very un-spurs like signing. Still, we do need depth, so we needed someone.
 
hellohello said:
Agree about both Davies and Sissoko, although last season Davies was a lot better imo, not sure what happened. Still a decent option to have since I doubt he's on a lot of money, and doesn't seem to be the type who complain about lack of gametime, but I won't be surprised if he is replaced by a younger understudy to Rose if we find one.

Regarding Sissoko, I'm not sure what the logic behind the signing was even, give us an option to play a more direct style with someone who can carry the ball? Doesn't seem to have worked out at all, and was a very un-spurs like signing. Still, we do need depth, so we needed someone.
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Probably wanted extra muscle and went for two players in Wanyama and Sissoko hoping one would work out. The issue with Sissoko is that he has zero end product, gets into pretty decent positions but then does nothing with the ball. You'll still get decent money for him if you did sell him on though.
 
Has Sissoko been that bad?
 
2cents said:
Has Sissoko been that bad?
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Well he hasn't really done anything good rather than been bad. He was shocking in his first few matches for us but then had a few games when he was average at best. I do not see the point of having him in the squad.
 
After game week 27 we are 2 points better off than at the same stage last season, with a +5 better GD.

Next up in the league is home to S'hampton, a game we lost 1 - 2 last season, so we have the chance to go 5 points better than last season after game week 28.
 
The only thing missing is an injection of pace and added goals up front, Mane would have been perfect but obviously that ship has sailed. N'Koudou looks promising in the miniscule amount of minutes he gets on the pitch but clearly Pochettino doesn't rate him that highly.

Other than that and maybe a bit of midfield cover Spurs are all set for another season assuming no elite clubs put in a bid for a player that Levy can't refuse.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Spurs fans need to realise that to obtain strength in depth you don't sign squad players.

You bring in similar or superior quality to what you have.

"Building depth" gets you Sissoko and Janssen. They should be chasing potential upgrades. Not understudies. Tough on a budget. But clearly possible
Click to expand...

That is something that we have really needed to learn as well. Up until Mourinho took charge, how many cast iron first teamers had we picked up since RVP? Mata is the only one who we could really class as part of our 1st eleven. Blind under LVG too.

Janssen will go I think, he doesnt seem to be trusted, and last I saw him play, his confidence looked shot. Sissoko, well who knows why they went for him.
 
RedSky said:
Probably wanted extra muscle and went for two players in Wanyama and Sissoko hoping one would work out. The issue with Sissoko is that he has zero end product, gets into pretty decent positions but then does nothing with the ball. You'll still get decent money for him if you did sell him on though.
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I think this is exactly it - last year when Dembele was missing, Spurs got run over in MF and struggled and it was a big reason why we couldn't win the title. Pochettino sold Carroll and bought two big muscular MF players in Wanyama and Sissoko and it was pretty clear he didn't want to be caught in that situation again (and I don't think the team thought Harry Winks was ready yet). This year Spurs have handled being without Dembele quite well, and Wanyama has obviously turned into one of the buys of the season. Sissoko to a lesser extent, but he's been quite useful in shutting down games late and helping ensure Spurs don't blow leads the way we did at points last season.

I would think we'll see the same thing this summer - Spurs need a pacey wide player with the questions surrounding Lamela's health and general lack of depth in that position. Spurs also have a tremendous young prospect (Marcus Edwards) who will eventually fill that role, but he's only 18 and probably not ready to make an impact yet - so I expect Pochettino to buy someone like Wilfried Zaha to plug into that spot and eat minutes while not necessarily blocking the path of the young kid they want to get his chances.
 
GlastonSpur said:
I agree with you about Sissoko, but I'm prepared to give Janssen another season because he's only 22 and this is his first season in the Prem.

But building in depth has also brought us Trippier and Davies - both definite understudies to Walker and Rose, yet both very decent fullbacks in their own right who have come in when needed and mostly done a good job for us.

Contrary to my own expressed views at the time, I was told on here last summer by many folk that Spurs needed to focus on improving their first XI, rather than on squad development and bringing through youngsters, or else we had little or no chance of top 4 against the big-spenders. Well, it's not going too badly for us so far.

Alli has improved further, as have Walker and Rose, and we have brought in from our academy another diamond-in-the-making (IMO) ... young Harry Winks.
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So in your eyes, what do you need to go to the next level? You are quite far off this years leaders. How do you take their place? I am thinking you are an Alexis Sanchez or Hazard away. These players are hard to get or create though as they cost a lot.
 
Stacks said:
So in your eyes, what do you need to go to the next level? You are quite far off this years leaders. How do you take their place? I am thinking you are an Alexis Sanchez or Hazard away. These players are hard to get or create though as they cost a lot.
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A better reserve left-back, possibly another midfielder with creativity and a fast attacking player. We can't afford to buy a proven world class player so we need to look at players with potential with the right attributes for what we need.
 
Stacks said:
So in your eyes, what do you need to go to the next level? You are quite far off this years leaders. How do you take their place? I am thinking you are an Alexis Sanchez or Hazard away. These players are hard to get or create though as they cost a lot.
Click to expand...

With the stadium costs we just can't afford to buy established top players. This will remain the case for some years to come. So we have to rely on our academy continuing to produce the goods, on our scouting network to find another Alli or two and on Poch's coaching to further improve the players we already have.

Of course they'll be some money for new players, but not much in net terms: I'd be surprised if we spent more than 20m net this summer.

If we can upgrade on Davies as LB understudy, then fine, but for me it's not that big a priority. The main thing IMO is another striker, because if Kane gets injured we can't rely just on Janssen.
 
balaks said:
A better reserve left-back, possibly another midfielder with creativity and a fast attacking player. We can't afford to buy a proven world class player so we need to look at players with potential with the right attributes for what we need.
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GlastonSpur said:
With the stadium costs we just can't afford to buy established top players. This will remain the case for some years to come. So we have to rely on our academy continuing to produce the goods, on our scouting network to find another Alli or two and on Poch's coaching to further improve the players we already have.

Of course they'll be some money for new players, but not much in net terms: I'd be surprised if we spent more than 20m net this summer.

If we can upgrade on Davies as LB understudy, then fine, but for me it's not that big a priority. The main thing IMO is another striker, because if Kane gets injured we can't rely just on Janssen.
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So I guess it is reasonable to assume that for the moment at least, you guys are happy with qualifying for the champions league, giving it a go when you do make it and aren't too bothered as to whether you make that next leap yet?
 
Stacks said:
So I guess it is reasonable to assume that for the moment at least, you guys are happy with qualifying for the champions league, giving it a go when you do make it and aren't too bothered as to whether you make that next leap yet?
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I wouldnt go that far - I want to see us improve and progress each season and to be honest, since Poch has been at the club we have been able to do that. The next step for our club is to consolidate our position in the top 4 and to regularly qualify for the Champions League - that is the next step for us being realistic as we are not normally a club that is in that position. The next step after that would be to have a regular title challenge and to have better progression in European competition - so I'd like to think that in the next 3 years that should be achievable. If anything we are overachieving at the moment.
 
So what will MP do with Kane looking like he'll be out for a while?

Son as a striker or trust in the CF he brought in over the Summer (Janssen)? Gonna be really interesting to see how it plays out.
 
Don't they have an easy run in anyways? Or easiest of the top clubs, maybe? Doubt they'll struggle that much without Kane.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
So what will MP do with Kane looking like he'll be out for a while?

Son as a striker or trust in the CF he brought in over the Summer (Janssen)? Gonna be really interesting to see how it plays out.
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I think he'll go with Son tbh.

Son played in the victory vs Man City as striker and he tends to get quite a few goals against teams that aren't that strong so hopefully he'll be more than enough against Southampton, Watford, Bournemouth, Burnley and Swansea. Not saying they'll be easy games but probably not horrendous in terms of fixtures there. That takes us to about 5 weeks. 6 weeks also covers Leicester away, who we seem to be crap against. Longer than that and it will be a lot more difficult.

Its worth noting that at the beginning of the season, the team as a whole wasn't playing all that well so that probably contributed partly to how few goals we were scoring without Kane.

We'll have to see really. Its not ideal either way.
 
africanspur said:
I think he'll go with Son tbh.

Son played in the victory vs Man City as striker and he tends to get quite a few goals against teams that aren't that strong so hopefully he'll be more than enough against Southampton, Watford, Bournemouth, Burnley and Swansea. Not saying they'll be easy games but probably not horrendous in terms of fixtures there. That takes us to about 5 weeks. 6 weeks also covers Leicester away, who we seem to be crap against. Longer than that and it will be a lot more difficult.

Its worth noting that at the beginning of the season, the team as a whole wasn't playing all that well so that probably contributed partly to how few goals we were scoring without Kane.

We'll have to see really. Its not ideal either way.
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Leicester away is semi-final weekend so we need to push for as late a rescheduling as possible.
 
sincher said:
Son up front would do fine IMO.
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One thing about Son, I think it's weird on how certain players can go from looking almost lower league quality in a match, then five minutes later hit the top corner from 25 yards.
 
Baxter said:
One thing about Son, I think it's weird on how certain players can go from looking almost lower league quality in a match, then five minutes later hit the top corner from 25 yards.
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He has been great for us and is an extremely important squad player. He is a frustrating player though as you said, at times his first touch is shocking and he struggles to control the ball but he is also capable of scoring superb goals with either foot. He has been a great signing imo. He will be our main striker till Kane gets back most likely.
 
SirHenryPercy said:
Leicester away is semi-final weekend so we need to push for as late a rescheduling as possible.
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Really? Crap.


Baxter said:
One thing about Son, I think it's weird on how certain players can go from looking almost lower league quality in a match, then five minutes later hit the top corner from 25 yards.
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Yep. This is 100% true. Even his first goal was perfect Son, within just a few seconds. 1st touch of a League one defender, then finish of a world class attacker. He's a strange player.

I'm not sure even he knows where his feet are taking him and the ball half of the time which can make his dribbling a bit unpredictable for defenders.
 
I think he's decent and certainly knows where the goal is.
 
africanspur said:
I think he'll go with Son tbh.

Son played in the victory vs Man City as striker and he tends to get quite a few goals against teams that aren't that strong so hopefully he'll be more than enough against Southampton, Watford, Bournemouth, Burnley and Swansea. Not saying they'll be easy games but probably not horrendous in terms of fixtures there. That takes us to about 5 weeks. 6 weeks also covers Leicester away, who we seem to be crap against. Longer than that and it will be a lot more difficult.

Its worth noting that at the beginning of the season, the team as a whole wasn't playing all that well so that probably contributed partly to how few goals we were scoring without Kane.

We'll have to see really. Its not ideal either way.
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Ah ok, cheers for the good response mate.

Personally, though I want Utd to finish above Spurs, I'd rather do it with Kane fit and playing. I don't like seeing a young in-form player hobble off injured (even with Liverpool and City).

Even though I know they get paid the Earth and are pampered beyond sense - I can't help feel but sad for them, reminds me of when I was younger and would injure myself and be out for a month or two (different sport than football), and you just feel so shit in that moment.

So even though I'm a firm believer in Spurs bottling it (as my posts in here will show), if their season capitulates without Kane, that to me wouldn't be them bottling it, and it'd be a shame (though I'd gladly replace them in the Top 4).

One point though, about Pochettino, is that Janssen is his man - brought in for 20m - if he doesn't play him now, you have to wonder what Levy will make of that when it comes time to sign future deals .

Making larger signings and then managing them is the one area of Pochettino's managerial ability that hasn't really been tested yet at this level, and if he's not gonna play Janssen, added to the flop of Sissoko, there's 50m spent that isn't being used. It's these type of things that can make a difference at the highest level.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
Ah ok, cheers for the good response mate.

Personally, though I want Utd to finish above Spurs, I'd rather do it with Kane fit and playing. I don't like seeing a young in-form player hobble off injured (even with Liverpool and City).

Even though I know they get paid the Earth and are pampered beyond sense - I can't help feel but sad for them, reminds me of when I was younger and would injure myself and be out for a month or two (different sport than football), and you just feel so shit in that moment.

So even though I'm a firm believer in Spurs bottling it (as my posts in here will show), if their season capitulates without Kane, that to me wouldn't be them bottling it, and it'd be a shame (though I'd gladly replace them in the Top 4).

One point though, about Pochettino, is that Janssen is his man - brought in for 20m - if he doesn't play him now, you have to wonder what Levy will make of that when it comes time to sign future deals .

Making larger signings and then managing them is the one area of Pochettino's managerial ability that hasn't really been tested yet at this level, and if he's not gonna play Janssen, added to the flop of Sissoko, there's 50m spent that isn't being used. It's these type of things that can make a difference at the highest level.
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Agree with much of what you said, but Poch also bought Wanyama, Alli, Dier, Son, Alderweireld to name a few of the more successful signings so I don't think his record is as bad as you suggest, in fact, you can sell the players he bought for a lot more than he paid. The only flop for me is Sissoko (for the money paid), and I'm still astonished we signed him, but I guess Poch thought he needed cover, my guess is that he will be turned into a wingback for next season.

Regarding Janssen; Poch himself suggested that Janssen's last first team spell came too early in the season for him so I'll hold my judgement for now, young striker who moves leagues, not the easiest task and some hit the ground running, others don't.

Football is a team game, and with how we have been playing I'll back us to win most of our games, even without Kane, Rose and Lamela, although they will be missed.
 
Can't see them dropping out of top 4. Considering they tend to burn out by the end of the season anyway.
 
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