4th post in a row you've avoided the point to fall back on "but United are shit now".
Tiresome.
Why have the same 22 clubs won the CL every time if previous performance, pedigree or history has no impact or is no indication?
Because it actually is.
The Spurs thread | 2016-2017 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned
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4th post in a row you've avoided the point to fall back on "but United are shit now".
Tiresome.
Why have the same 22 clubs won the CL every time if previous performance, pedigree or history has no impact or is no indication?
Because it actually is.
We aren't strong enough for a long run in Europe and to challenge for top 4.
Depth is the problem and you are right we won't solve it this summer, it's going to take at least another year or 2.
I'm not sure you'll find many sensible Spurs fans argue otherwise, that's why we should prioritise.
And you keep trying to point at the past for a reason that you'll do well next time. You would have argued the same 2 years ago when you were dumped out in the group stage.
You're argument is totally flawed and thinking you might win it is just laughable.
You keep saying this, if you don't like opposing fans on here maybe don't come into other clubs threads, that way it won't upset you.
Arsenal have United have performed infinitly more than Tottenham in the CL, even in the last 5 years. We had a similar shit season under LVG but a good CL campaign under Moyes.
Gent... over 2 legs 
. feck me. When i was a bab and me dad told me North London was the comedy capital of England i didn't believe him, always listen to your elders lads.
. feck me. When i was a bab and me dad told me North London was the comedy capital of England i didn't believe him, always listen to your elders lads.Unfortunately its about percentages. Spurs know that if they put all their effort into the Europa League there would be maybe a 1/7 or 1/8 chance of winning it. They aren't good travellers, they are generally poor against European opposition and are generally poor in the pressure situation of knockout football, hence their trophy haul in the last couple of decades.
The League gives then a better chance at the financial windfall the CL offers. With City and United likely to have significant fixture congestion they have maybe a 50/50 shot at 4th.
It's a numbers game from a Spurs perspective. I can't blame them - if my club was about to find itself in significant amounts of debt that will have a huge impact on their ability to buy and keep great players in the short to medium term my priority would be cash, not trophies.
As a United fan top 4 to me is irrelevant unless we have a chance at winning the thing. Last season in my view we had a better season than any other English club except Leicester. However that's speaking from a position where £40m is somewhat irrelevant to us as a club. It doesn't stop us signing Pogba, Di Maria, Schweinsteiger or Zlatan and if reports are to be believed it's irrelevant to signing Griezmann or keeping anyone else.
However if my club were in the position of short term money whoring for long term stability I'd be ignoring the attractive woman winking at me in the bar and sucking that £50 a time back alley cock dry.
We will be successful again because we can simply buy the best players.
Once the likes of Kane and Alli get to their peak, teams like United, Bayern and Real will be there to pick them up, pay them the wages they deserve, and help them win the trophies that they will never be able to win with a middling team like Spurs.
Simple really. There is a reason the last time you won anything of note was before colour TVs.
The only problem is that you might have missed your opportunity.
You missed the point. When it comes to club with pedigree, when they get the management sorted, they have lure to get back to the very top. Just like Real Madrid when they were struggling to get into CL quarter final for year. Every fecking summer they went out shouting, we wanted to get back winning CL, and there were big players believed & joined them, knowing with their reputation, they ain't bluffing. We did similar with our last few summer transfer. LVG couldn't succeed to get us back. No worry big players still join us with Mourinho (Mourinho was the one who got Real Madrid back on track on get to CL semi final 3 consecutive years after years of failure). Imagine, Tottenham & Arsenal came out bluffing!
The money is one problem, the pulling power is another. Getting under the radar good players only get you as far & you have to take that advantage seriously; once other clubs pay you enough attention & jump at your transfer target, sorry your luck run out where you blow your chance to win something & show that you ain't eternal bottler
Loads of top teams are knocked out at group stages juve Barca for example have been taken out of group stages and yet the next season they will still of been considered a threat.
I don't think we'd be favourites but if this summer transfer window is half as good as the last we'll not be a team many will want to play against.
Not sure the same can be said of spurs, they won't improve much beyond where they are now.
So United can't improve from LvG incompetence despite our rich history in Europe?
Are every Spur fans as dumb as Glaston? I thought he's the only one stupid enough to use our recent blip as a trend.
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They have this smug on their face thinking they are all that. They have a good squad, but nobody really exceptional, and you need a few of those players to mount a challenge let alone win it.
Even with Bale they finished 5th behind the others. And last season their best chance in years with all the big teams in transition of sorts, they still managed to choke in the end to finish behind Arsenal yet again.
It won't get any easier anytime soon. They got lucky with Bale. Fat chance they'll be able to attract and afford the kind of players they need to elevate get to the next level. They will get left behind once us and City get our acts together.
Even with Bale they finished 5th behind the others. And last season their best chance in years with all the big teams in transition of sorts, they still managed to choke in the end to finish behind Arsenal yet again.
It won't get any easier anytime soon. They got lucky with Bale. Fat chance they'll be able to attract and afford the kind of players they need to elevate get to the next level. They will get left behind once us and City get our acts together.
Cocky Spuds
You have good EPL players in Alli and Kane... and a good coach.
Not finishing second last season, and dropping out o f EL this season are really negative points against you though. Not sure you can stand the pace.
You have good EPL players in Alli and Kane... and a good coach.
Not finishing second last season, and dropping out o f EL this season are really negative points against you though. Not sure you can stand the pace.
I believe Spurs have a good enough squad to win the league but they don't have a winning mentality yet which was evident when they lost the plot against Chelsea last season. They should focus on winning a cup or two to boost their confidence before making a serious attempt at the league. Much like City winning the FA cup in 2011 before winning the league the following season (2011-2012).
I don't believe Spurs have the winning mentality required to win a cup or two yet. They should focus on becoming carbon neutral before making a serious attempt at the FA cup.
So if you're not good enough to compete for the title the top four finish is irrelevant? That's illogical. Or are you talking about wininning the CL? But unless you're in it season after season you won't get the necessary experience and pedigree to have a real shot at winning it at some point in the future. United are a big club but missing out on the CL participation is a huge blow in every respect, and should you miss out on it for a few years your prestige along with your commercial income will take a hit.
I also didn't get what was so great about United last season. You finished 5th in the league, got knocked out of the CL at a group stage and then were dumped out of the Europa League by Liverpool at the Round of 16. How does that make your season better than any other English side, except Leicester?
I assume he looks at it that way because of the FA cup.
Poch's reputation has stayed in tact, but has he really done any better than Redknapp or AVB?
Or even the Spanish bloke they won a trophy under.
Spurs fans can't take a criticism with an open mind, can they. Every single time they act precious and go on defending their club rather than concede something even to a lesser extent. And then throw jibes at United as if to divert attention from their failures or shortcomings.
If they make top 4 this season, in spite of their disastrous showings in Europe twice, I think they have done pretty well. Maybe well is a bit of a stretch but I still think its a pretty decent season for them because they would have finished top 4 in two consecutive seasons which proves that last season wasn't a one-off, and they are here for the long haul. Secondly, the majority thinks that they would not make top 4 before the start of the season, as indicated in the polls with 70% of Redcafe's posters thinking they will not make top 4. I'm one of them. However, they are still so competitive in the league, and if they do make top 4, to be able to complete with a league with teams and managers like Mourinho, Guardiola, Klopp, Conte, Wenger who have better resources than them is pretty impressive. And that's also adding to the fact that they have no genuine world-class players. No, Kane, Dele Alli, Eriksen, Lloris, Dier, Vertonghen etc are not world-class players, I rate them highly but I think they are top players. A collective group of good/top players. Chelsea has Hazard/Costa, City has Aguero/De Bruyne, Arsenal has Sanchez/Ozil and we have Zlatan/De Gea/Pogba. Imagine if they do sign a world-class player in this mould, they would be frightening. If Bale is still with them now, I'm sure they would challenge for the title.
Him too. His biggest achievement is finishing 3rd in a season where really and truly they could have been champions.
I was talking about winning the Champions League. I don't agree that missing it for the odd year is relevant for a club like United. As a fan I'd prefer an FA Cup win to merely qualifying for the CL with no hope of winning it.
In terms of European experience our squad is littered with players who've played in the CL and a manager who's hugely experienced in the competition so I don't see that as particularly relevant. Likewise in terms of prestige it'd only be relevant if we missed out for several years in a row.
Along with Leicester and City we were one of the three English teams last year to win a trophy. In order of success it's clearly PL (Leicester), then FA Cup (United), then League Cup (City).
City getting to the semi's of the CL is probably worth something to be fair to them.
The fa cup was a nice end to a very mediocre season for us, I wouldn't be blowing my horn over it.
From a United point of view it was an unsuccessful season but that just shows how mediocre English clubs did in general last season.
I don't attach too much prestige or success with getting knocked out in the last 4, similarly I don't attach too much to Liverpool being beaten in 2 finals.
Possibly CL runner up would be an achievement given you'd be playing in the biggest game of the year.
I agree in most cases and I wouldn't rate it particularly highly but I think the quality of CL teams is high enough that its at least notable (as opposed to losing a league cup final)
I agree with the basic point. I wouldn't be in the slightest bit bothered about not qualifying for a competition i had no intention of trying to win
Also disagree that we (or spurs for that matter) dont have a chance of winning it
Bayern, Barca, Real and Athletico haven't been this weak in about a decade. Even PSG are probably a bit weaker that they've been in a while.
Its a great opportunity for a dark horse to win it atm
I wish Spurs would bigger off. If they get into the CL over us I'll cry. A nothing club that'll do nothing in Europe.
We drink your tears
But that doesn't mean Spurs can't eventually win the CL. Chelsea had no 'pedigree' in Europe prior to Abramovic et they still have 1 title. It can be done by a new kid on the block. No one started off with that pedigree it gets built.
You could argue before 2000 Barca had very little European respect
I thought they went quite far one year before he showed up?
Vaguely remember a high scoring game against barcelona (maybe that was leeds?)
Good at smashing the likes of Stoke and WBA at home. Their problem is away to a big team.
Yes it is
They could do with a pacey/skilled winger IMO.
Not sure about that tbh, I think we do lack a bit of guile and creativity in the side though.
Lamela will be back soon.
I see this criticism levelled at us a lot right now and I don't quite get it.
Who in the top six is doing super well against the other top six besides Liverpool? Does any other club have a record of note?
As I recall our home/away record against top six is middle of the pack for top six teams.
Tbf no one wants to play away to big teams
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