I think the EL will start to get dominated by English clubs over the next few years. The Premiership has 6 teams dominating now as opposed to 4, the lesser 2 clubs now realise its another legitimate path back to CL football.
The relative strength of the Premier League
- Thread starter Wumminator
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Pretty evident. The only fair ground is European performance hence the coefficient and La Liga is way ahead. We are closer to Serie A in that regard
The last decade yes, partially helped by Messi and Ronaldo. Even now Barca are better then most of the PLtop 6, and Atletico will give any of them a game, so it's true that PL aren't better than La Liga teams.
But the real strength of the PL currently is the emergence of the big six - it creates a real struggle to even qualify for the CL, and it's caused all 6 teams to raise their level to a very high level currently. Not enough to claim the single best team in Europe - but enough to claim easily the best top 6.
Neither Chelsea not Arsenal are at any particular high level. At least Rennes don't think so
Chelsea are the bookies favourite for the EL. Arsenal have been strong in the league recently and imo will be very tough for us on the weekend. Didn't see the Rennes game so can't really judge.
This is the inherent flaw with your arguments when you bring in comparing Europa league results.
To accept your argument I’m meant to believe Rennes are as good as arsenal.
Chelsea aren’t strong you say. The equivalent team in La Liga has John Guidetti and a player on loan from
Swansea up front.
They'd beat Chelsea. Trust me. And are Rennes as good as Arsenal? One would have to look at both clubs performances across all comps to assess. Perhaps Rennes got lucky? I believe they are tenth so perhaps not so great. That said, when comparing teams who do well domestically, your European performance is the next barometer as everyone wants to win it
3-4 English teams in the quarters vs 1 Spanish (if Barca win tomorrow). The power is shifting.
Can’t remember the last time Spain only had one team on the last 8 of the Champions League. Presuming Barcelona will be there.
Oh, I knew this monstrosity would be woken up!
I am not taking definitive conclusions but it’s the second season where we see the top teams in England doing well. Only that.
England topped the UEFA coefficients last season but Spain still won the two trophies in the end. It looks like England have a good chance of topping the coefficients again. If they do, it wouldn't be unfair to argue it as the top league at this point in time.
The Portuguese league has a good chance of taking France's 5th place this season too.
The Portuguese league has a good chance of taking France's 5th place this season too.
Barca can easily go on and win the CL, in fairness.
So can a number of clubs..........
The decline in quality of the Spanish league has been apparent for the past few seasons, although they were falling from a very lofty position.
I have not been impressed with them that much this season. You would never rule them out, but they are far from the dominant Pep side they once had. Real Madrid having two really poor seasons in the league make them seem better than they are.
I think Lyon could knock them out. They got good physical players that can give a match to Barcelona.
They still got Messi and he is amazing, but has not done it in the champions league in recent years. Maybe want to win it again so much that it gives some mental pressure against him.
Yeah I think with Real they have just not done well in the market. Zidane did amazing for them, but the squad did decline and selling Ronaldo was a huge error.
Barca have done better, but I don't think Valverde is that good and replacing Neymar is still impossible. Messi has also declined a bit faster than Ronaldo.
It's nothing to be proud of, with the amount of money and big teams. It was actually embarassing the performance of EPL in past 8 years or so. Now its just what it should be logically.
Pretty much. 4 years ago England had a season where they were the 4th strongest league in Europe. We were massively underperforming. The established teams were struggling and the oil teams weren't stepping up either.
La Liga can gift Barcelona and Madrid all the advantages it wants, it can't compete with the recent inflows of money to the PL. It's only natural the league will get stronger again. You've now got 6 teams who could potentially challenge for any league in Europe. I can also see a time when top 6 becomes top 8, just like it went from top 2 to top 4, and top 4 to top 6.
Chelsea will win the EL with Barca/Juve the cl
Swings and roundabouts. Or something like that.
You're saying Deportivo Alavés is a better team than Chelsea?
Take a long hard look at this squad: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportivo_Alavés#Current_squad
Fun fact: for three straight CL seasons (2007, 2008, 2009), 3 out of 4 semifinalists were English. That's 9 out of 12 for three straight years. Then La Liga took over for a while thanks to Ronaldo and Messi, but now that they are gone/declining, it's reverting back to normal.
you showed data and trends from 10 seasons ago. that's cuteYou're saying Deportivo Alavés is a better team than Chelsea?
Take a long hard look at this squad: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportivo_Alavés#Current_squad
Fun fact: for three straight CL seasons (2007, 2008, 2009), 3 out of 4 semifinalists were English. That's 9 out of 12 for three straight years. Then La Liga took over for a while thanks to Ronaldo and Messi, but now that they are gone/declining, it's reverting back to normal.
You didn’t answer the question. Please double down on your ridiculous claim that Deportivo Alavés is a better team than Chelsea. They have a negative goal difference ffs and finished 14th last season.
I think that Spanish clubs had the edge in European competitions all these years not because they were that much better. Obviously Barca and Madrid were the best teams of the last decade or so. And Spanish teams tend to play a more technical and measured game. But their teams also seem to be more patient and savvy, while English teams often look confused and chaotic in comparison. Anyway, the difference in results is just too big and doesn't reflect the fact that both leagues are close in quality. It could be just the weird run of results, which happens in cup competitions from time to time.
The PL was poorish for a while. Leicester won it! Things have started to change with the arrival of top top managers.
We have at least 3 or 4 teams who can compete with best team in Europe. I think in Spain they only have 3, Germany only have 2, Italy only have 2, France only have 1.
Nothing embarrassing about it. The two Spanish clubs probably had two of the greatest XI of all time with Barcelona actually having the greatest XI of all time.
Didn't help other clubs either that each of those teams had Messi and Ronaldo, the greatest two players of all time.
The PL was weak when this thread was originally made and the Op looked like an eejit with his argument, but no doubt that it's improved a lot since then.
Chelsea, Arsenal Tottenham and United are not good enough for that... Germany has 1, same with Italy. France has 0 until PSG proves that they are not a mentally loser team (this year aganist United was even worse than against Barça last season, pathetic)
It was just a one off season. An unexpected league winners happen from time to time in every league.
Nah, this explanation is unconvincing. Can you see Celta winning La Liga? For obvious reasons, a one off season like Leicester's has been impossible in La Liga.
There was a period of 3-4 years or so when English clubs struggled to reach the CL quarter finals or even the last 16. Jose's Chelsea 2 were embarassed in the CL by 10 man PSG (at home!). The quality now is much better with City and Liverpool probably able to match the Spanish giants and us and Spurs able to give a game to any of the favourites and maybe even reach the final.
I think the general standard of European football is lower at the moment than it has been in some time. The English clubs have improved on where they were a few years ago but they've been helped by the likes of Madrid, Barca and Bayern falling back towards the pack.
It's hard to say which league is the best for several reason.
- UEFA coefficient just indicates international performance (so the top 5-7 teams in the league)
- Group picks. Napoli got twice in CL basically the hardest group when Schalke and Porto advances vs. Gala & Lok. Moscow.
- Ref. From my feeling I'd say LaLiga teams get overall advantages in decisions. I'd even go so far that 2 out of last 3 CL wins Real (also) got because for favourable decisions by the referee.
- other advantages. Real once were basically bankrupted but were able to buy whole trainings grounds of the city of Madrid for a symbolic Euro. The value of that grounds were far in the millions.
- UEFA coefficient just indicates international performance (so the top 5-7 teams in the league)
- Group picks. Napoli got twice in CL basically the hardest group when Schalke and Porto advances vs. Gala & Lok. Moscow.
- Ref. From my feeling I'd say LaLiga teams get overall advantages in decisions. I'd even go so far that 2 out of last 3 CL wins Real (also) got because for favourable decisions by the referee.
- other advantages. Real once were basically bankrupted but were able to buy whole trainings grounds of the city of Madrid for a symbolic Euro. The value of that grounds were far in the millions.
I was clowning bro. You think that was serious?
Oh fair enough. Others would say I was right and prophetic when others doubted me but fair enough.
Not even won the CL yet but somehow prophetic. Literally nothing proven. We await a period of dominance with multiple trophies coming home to UK but alas
To be prophetic you would have had to say the PL would be the strongest in three years. You didn't. You said it was right then and there. The only thing you were is wrong.
I mean, it's the standard swing that everyone knew would come in the end. 15-10 years ago the premier league was the top league, always had 3-4 teams in the quarter finals, etc.. Ronaldo then left, there was a decline, Spain took over as the dominant team and have been dominant over the past 10 years because Ronaldo and Messi were there, while the premier league really struggled once Fergie retired (and the couple of years before that) and only once Pep/Mourinho/Klopp came in the prem did they start picking it up again.
It's nothing you can really argue, it's just the normal trend. Leagues go through transition phases just like clubs do.
It's nothing you can really argue, it's just the normal trend. Leagues go through transition phases just like clubs do.
Fair enough, if that is how you see this thread fair enough.
Again I just ask people in this forum to read the thread before making judgements. Really interesting looking back at older pages.