The relative strength of the Premier League

I strongly disagree that La Liga has more depth than the PL.

In fact, quite the opposite.

La Liga's lowly teams are running on budgets that are less than Gareth Bale's wages. It's simply impossible for them and the coined up PL teams will continue to pillage talent from other leagues.

City are favourites for the CL at the bookies, as they have been all season. Liverpool are fourth. I think both look very strong contenders.

I think 3 out of 4 the PL teams will go through the next round, with United the likeliest to go out.
 
KingMinger22 said:
La Liga's lowly teams are running on budgets that are less than Gareth Bale's wages. It's simply impossible for them and the coined up PL teams will continue to pillage talent from other leagues.
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I'm not saying you're wrong about the depth in each league but the argument is more money means a better team. That doesn't have to be the case as Juventus and Atletico have both been better than the PL sides over the past five seasons. We're another example that money isn't everything.
 
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The league is the richest in the world, and good players follow the money.

You could argue about a couple of exceptional teams doing well on the continent, but there are always going to be examples of good management elsewhere.

The PL has the best paid managers and players, and the best depth.

I accept that we look like a more atheletic and physical league, but that's only because... we are.

Every campaign is made up of 38 high intensity games where the other side has weapons that can hurt you (slight exagerration for rhetorical effect). That inevitably each match into a battle, so the style can look a bit less appealing to the purist. But it's not like Spanish and French managers come here to manage Brazilian and Portuguese players to play that way. It occurs naturally when you increase the playing demands of the games week-in-week-out.

All told, the PL has the greater depth. It's not even close. It's all about who can pay the most. And with 3 or 4 exceptions, the list of wealthy employers is almost entirely made up of English clubs.
 
Mb194dc said:
Do you actually watch any La Liga?

Good example is the Rayo Vallecano v Barcelona game last month. Rayo took the game to Barcelona, despite losing at the end in a way you would never see in from a bottom side in the premier league. (Equivalent to Liverpool v Fulham on current league positions). I know which I'd rather watch. https://en.as.com/en/2018/11/03/football/1541272195_779605.html
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What on earth are you talking about? Bottom sides in the PL have been scalping those at the top for years and years, more so than what happens in La Liga, so that makes no sense.

Its funny that the example you use for a minnow beating a big team, doesn't even result in a win, I don't understand that.

Also it's no surprise that this exciting Jason vs Minotaur game you mention involves Barcelona, as any game in La Liga which doesn't involve either them or Real Madrid is often a stale affair, and the games which do involve those two teams are regularly thumping's in their favor.

Mb194dc said:
La liga is an entire season ahead of England / Italy / Germany in the UEFA coefficient table, there is a reason for that!:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient
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You know that works using the results from PAST SEASONS yes? And unless I am mistaken, we are talking about this season?

I dont understand some of these La-Liga fanboys and their agendas.
 
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Mb194dc said:
Do you actually watch any La Liga?

Good example is the Rayo Vallecano v Barcelona game last month. Rayo took the game to Barcelona, despite losing at the end in a way you would never see in from a bottom side in the premier league. (Equivalent to Liverpool v Fulham on current league positions). I know which I'd rather watch. https://en.as.com/en/2018/11/03/football/1541272195_779605.html

La liga is an entire season ahead of England / Italy / Germany in the UEFA coefficient table, there is a reason for that!:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient

The premier league has the best marketing..., the worst referees, 6 very good teams and that's about it.

I also prefer how they do the fixture list in La Liga, flipping it at the half way point. Seems much fairer to all the teams.
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Yeah I watch La liga....well I try. You talk about the 'dross' outside the top 6 in the PL then use a game involving Barcelona in La Liga as an example? Ok.
 
Not sure how anyone can watch this season and think premier league is strongest around. Look at the bottom 6-7 teams and look how few points they've taken off the top 6.

Cardiff have had a decent run lately and played Man. United and it was a complete mis match.

How many of Newcastle-Huddersfield is even going to get 35 points this season?

In Spain Huesca are a bit out of their depth (even them they pushed Real Madrid very close the other week) but all other teams will get close to 40 points imo especially when you have likes of Villareal (in the europa league) and Bilbao down there.

La Liga is much more interesting league this season than Prem.
 
FootballHQ said:
Not sure how anyone can watch this season and think premier league is strongest around. Look at the bottom 6-7 teams and look how few points they've taken off the top 6.

Cardiff have had a decent run lately and played Man. United and it was a complete mis match.

How many of Newcastle-Huddersfield is even going to get 35 points this season?

In Spain Huesca are a bit out of their depth (even them they pushed Real Madrid very close the other week) but all other teams will get close to 40 points imo especially when you have likes of Villareal (in the europa league) and Bilbao down there.

La Liga is much more interesting league this season than Prem.
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The top 6 are amongst the best in Europe, but I agree with you, the midtable to bottom teams in England don't look stronger than La Liga at least.
 
SCP said:
The top 6 are amongst the best in Europe, but I agree with you, the midtable to bottom teams in England don't look stronger than La Liga at least.
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We'll see what happens in Champions league (can see an English club winning Europa).

For all the stick La Liga gets for being 2-3 team league their sides do it in europe. Last 5 winners of CL Spainish and we've seen Atletico and Sevilla also win the europa league in that timespan so it should be much harder for bottom half La Liga teams to compete with the top ones than in premier league.
 
FootballHQ said:
We'll see what happens in Champions league (can see an English club winning Europa).

For all the stick La Liga gets for being 2-3 team league their sides do it in europe. Last 5 winners of CL Spainish and we've seen Atletico and Sevilla also win the europa league in that timespan so it should be much harder for bottom half La Liga teams to compete with the top ones than in premier league.
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Only Huesca or Rayo look weak, and even Huesca or Rayo already had a few good games here or there. Certainly a good League. Always difficult to compare.
 
I'd say there's been a gradual shift over the past couple of years and the PL's probably the strongest league at the moment. Shall be interesting to see whether they maintain that or if the pendulum swings back to La Liga again. Still though...feel like PL clubs need to win more in Europe than they are currently to cement that top spot.
 
Is it actually getting better or worse overall? In November to January we won 2 in 10 games and still sit in 8th place (whilst being destroyed by Tottenham). Bournemouth lost 7 out of 11 of their games in this period and sit in 8th when they were shafted by Spurs and United amongst others, but now have resurged with a massive 4-0 win over Chelsea.

It's so difficult to judge at the moment and it's wildly inconsistent.
 
There’s a 10 point gap from 6th to 7th place.

10 points.

And that’s with a United team in 6th who have underperformed for a large part of the season. I keep hearing that the Premier League has strengthened throughout, and all teams are stronger, richer, better quality of players, more depth etc, which is perhaps correct, but there is still a clear separation between the top 6 and the rest of the league.
 
IrishRedDevil said:
There’s a 10 point gap from 6th to 7th place.

10 points.

And that’s with a United team in 6th who have underperformed for a large part of the season. I keep hearing that the Premier League has strengthened throughout, and all teams are stronger, richer, better quality of players, more depth etc, which is perhaps correct, but there is still a clear separation between the top 6 and the rest of the league.
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Is that fair though? We've been on a champion-level run of wins to make that leap and before it, we were right in the mire.
 
IrishRedDevil said:
There’s a 10 point gap from 6th to 7th place.

10 points.

And that’s with a United team in 6th who have underperformed for a large part of the season. I keep hearing that the Premier League has strengthened throughout, and all teams are stronger, richer, better quality of players, more depth etc, which is perhaps correct, but there is still a clear separation between the top 6 and the rest of the league.
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Those six clubs are now pretty much six of the top twelve teams in the world. It would be hard for anyone to catch up with them. Everton/Leicester/West Ham are the tier below those top six but can't quite breach the ceiling.
 
Wumminator said:
Those six clubs are now pretty much six of the top twelve teams in the world. It would be hard for anyone to catch up with them. Everton/Leicester/West Ham are the tier below those top six but can't quite breach the ceiling.
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Real Madrid, Barcelona, Atletico, Juventus, Bayern, Dortmund and Napoli/Inter.
6/14 would be more like it, but your point is correct.
 
Top 6 are very good sides. Wouldn't be surprised to see premier league sides reclaiming both European trophies from Madrid this season.

The rest of the league is not good, more so given the financial resources available compared to the lower teams in Spain / Italy. The refereeing is poor as well.

There is the odd shock result, like (us) Chelsea getting thrashed this week, Spurs losing 3 - 1 to wolves, Utd drawing with Burnley, City losing to Newcastle etc. Mainly though it's about the order of the top 6 and which of the other 14 teams will get relegated.
 
Fortitude said:
Is that fair though? We've been on a champion-level run of wins to make that leap and before it, we were right in the mire.
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I think it’s fair. We beat Cardiff, Huddersfield, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Spurs, Brighton and drew with Burnley. All games I would expect a top 6 team to beat really, with the exception of Spurs as those games v another top 6 team can go either way.

The teams in 7th (Wolves) and 8th (Everton) invested heavily, but they are still detached from the top 6. Granted it’s Wolves first season back in the Premier League so credit where it’s due, but I just can’t see how any of those teams can quickly bridge the gap to the top 6.

The closest teams to them currently (United, Chelsea and Arsenal) really need to invest and push on from where we are now. You have United who sacked their manager, and Arsenal and Chelsea who have new managers and going through a transition, yet there is a 10 point gulf to the rest.
 
I can see Wolves competing in a few years if they continue to invest in their squad heavily. That would be fantastic to see, I'm really enjoying seeing a proper battle for top four this year (wish we weren't fecking in it mind!)
 
IrishRedDevil said:
There’s a 10 point gap from 6th to 7th place.

10 points.

And that’s with a United team in 6th who have underperformed for a large part of the season. I keep hearing that the Premier League has strengthened throughout, and all teams are stronger, richer, better quality of players, more depth etc, which is perhaps correct, but there is still a clear separation between the top 6 and the rest of the league.
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Indeed. People have been raving about Wolves and Bournemouth while labelling us (Everton) completely shite and yet we are level/2 points behind each team respectively. The league outside of the top 6 is dreadful at the moment.
 
Wumminator said:
Those six clubs are now pretty much six of the top twelve teams in the world. It would be hard for anyone to catch up with them. Everton/Leicester/West Ham are the tier below those top six but can't quite breach the ceiling.
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Exactly.

There is a Wolves fan on here who believes Wolves will push for the title within the next 5 years...

I just can’t see it. The current top 6 is locked in and for the foreseeable and for any of those teams 7th and below to bridge the gap it would take mammoth effort (Leicester
-like freak season). As well as that, a few teams in the current top 6 would need to really slip up to allow the overtake to happen.
 
SilentWitness said:
Indeed. People have been raving about Wolves and Bournemouth while labelling us (Everton) completely shite and yet we are level/2 points behind each team respectively. The league outside of the top 6 is dreadful at the moment.
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Your squad is still decent and should give most teams a hard game. Your signings this year should seperate you from the likes of Bournemouth and Burnley.
 
PL should benefit from the natural decline of La Liga. Some improvements also have been made in the youth setup as recent result in youth competitions prove.

The main improvement for PL clubs is to learn how to develop talents, as most youngsters, either local or imported are stagnating and clubs can only rely on less cost-effective ready-made players.
 
SilentWitness said:
Indeed. People have been raving about Wolves and Bournemouth while labelling us (Everton) completely shite and yet we are level/2 points behind each team respectively. The league outside of the top 6 is dreadful at the moment.
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To be fair it’s Wolves’ first season back in the prem, and I imagine Everton’s wage bill dwarfs Bournemouth. Haven’t checked though. Everton should be judged to a higher standard than the two clubs you listed.
 
Wumminator said:
Those six clubs are now pretty much six of the top twelve teams in the world.
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Sure they are. Specially Spurs and Arsenal. Top teams and a menace to everyone in Europe. :lol:

At the same time Everton has a squad worth 426 mil € on transfermarket and Betis would walk all over them.
 
Cascarino said:
To be fair it’s Wolves’ first season back in the prem, and I imagine Everton’s wage bill dwarfs Bournemouth. Haven’t checked though. Everton should be judged to a higher standard than the two clubs you listed.
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They've just bought smarter than us in a lot of ways by exploiting the European and lower league market in the way we used to but we have completely lost that model since Moyes left (believe it or not). It's meant that we consistently get rinsed by other teams in the league with this stupid PL tax. Although Richarlison and Gylfi are good players they'd have cost nowhere near as much if they were bought from outside the league. Add Pickford, Keane, Walcott and Bolasie into that mix and it's a poor showing.

Our negotiating team must be terrible.
 
gaucho_10 said:
Sure they are. Specially Spurs and Arsenal. Top teams and a menace to everyone in Europe. :lol:

At the same time Everton has a squad worth 426 mil € on transfermarket and Betis would walk all over them.
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I’m glad you chose them, I think they’re a brilliant example!

There’s no way a team with Joaquin, Javi García (ex City), Guardado (yes the same one!) and Tello would be able to last a full season in the prem.
 
Wumminator said:
I’m glad you chose them, I think they’re a brilliant example!

There’s no way a team with Joaquin, Javi García (ex City), Guardado (yes the same one!) and Tello would be able to last a full season in the prem.
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Yeah, unlike team like Liverpool who is top dog for the title two seasons in a row with players like Milner, Henderson, Lovren, Robertson and Arnold starting majority games for them.
 
SilentWitness said:
They've just bought smarter than us in a lot of ways by exploiting the European and lower league market in the way we used to but we have completely lost that model since Moyes left (believe it or not). It's meant that we consistently get rinsed by other teams in the league with this stupid PL tax. Although Richarlison and Gylfi are good players they'd have cost nowhere near as much if they were bought from outside the league. Add Pickford, Keane, Walcott and Bolasie into that mix and it's a poor showing.

Our negotiating team must be terrible.
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Yeah I agree with everything you said. I actually think Moyes was good in the transfer market, was that down to him or was there a good scouting set up?

Like you said the two players you mentioned are good players but would have cost less if they came from abroad, I love Gylfi but think he was overpriced. Do you think Everton will get 7th?
 
Wumminator said:
I mean... are we going to try and argue Liverpool aren’t a great team and some of those players aren’t great?
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Neither of those players are close to great. Neither of them would probably start for any of top teams in Spain. Some of them are talented, yes, but it's really quite embarassing to the league that quite new young acadamy players like Arnold and Robertson are already one of the best in the league in their position.
 
Wumminator said:
Your squad is still decent and should give most teams a hard game. Your signings this year should seperate you from the likes of Bournemouth and Burnley.
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I don't doubt that, I guess it comes down to what you believe is better. I'm trying to think of the last side in any European League which broke into a EL/CL place and made it their own rather than being so inconsistent. Perhaps Spurs in the PL is an example.

Cascarino said:
Yeah I agree with everything you said. I actually think Moyes was good in the transfer market, was that down to him or was there a good scouting set up?

Like you said the two players you mentioned are good players but would have cost less if they came from abroad, I love Gylfi but think he was overpriced. Do you think Everton will get 7th?
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I think it was a mix, but he was very shrewd at doing small money business and then shat himself when he had a lot to spend.

I love him too and we really should get 7th and it would be very dangerous for Silva if we don't. We have a lot of players who are horrendously out of form which isn't helping.
 
Wumminator said:
I’m glad you chose them, I think they’re a brilliant example!

There’s no way a team with Joaquin, Javi García (ex City), Guardado (yes the same one!) and Tello would be able to last a full season in the prem.
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Let it all out while you can. Knock out stages of European football competitions are near. It's about time for you to go back to sleep in this thread until August.

I'm calling it the Wummminator's boom bust cycle.
 
Amar__ said:
Neither of those players are close to great. Neither of them would probably start for any of top teams in Spain. Some of them are talented, yes, but it's really quite embarassing to the league that quite new young acadamy players like Arnold and Robertson are already one of the best in the league in their position.
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Robertson wasn’t a Liverpool academy player, he was great for Hull before his move. And yes, he is one of the best in the league in his position, I would say he is the best in the league actually. Not that I agree with this topic, just saying you’re wrong about Robertson
 
Cascarino said:
Robertson wasn’t a Liverpool academy player, he was great for Hull before his move. And yes, he is one of the best in the league in his position, I would say he is the best in the league actually. Not that I agree with this topic, just saying you’re wrong about Robertson
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Yeah, I thought he was bit younger tbf, I was wrong.
 
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