I am not optimistIc with our current form, but I see at least 3 English team will be through to last 8 (City, Spur and Liverpool), with City having a good chance to win the competition.
The relative strength of the Premier League
- Thread starter Wumminator
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I think City/Spurs and Liverpool all have a good chance to win the competition.
United will curl up into a ball when the going gets tough, no way we can beat a European giant over 2 legs and don't even feel we'd get the better of any of the remaining English sides over 2 legs and Chelsea whilst being more designed to beat the big teams of Europe than United, i don't think they have what it takes to go all the way.
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What do you base this pessimism on? There is no side in Europe, and hasn't been for a while that is as dominant and superior to everyone else as Guardiola's Barcelona was, for instance. There's just a bunch of very good teams, and they are all very much beatable. Juventus is a European giant after all, and their crumbling from last night just confirms that notion.
Mourinho's style suits a cup competition, he's an absolute master at it. He has won this competition twice with teams that can be very accurately described as underdogs. We will get a different approach from the opposition that what we usually get in the league (that suits counter attacking much more), as well as a completely different psychological standpoint (one that doesn't involve the despair and inevitability of coming second). We also have one of the easiest opponents on paper in the current round of sixteen. All things considered, I wouldn't rule a good run in the Champions league out at all.
Because when i watch United play against the big teams of England i see no indication we could, Jose parks the bus and more times than not, that doesn't even work so we end up looking stupid or as we've been called this season 'a rich mans Stoke'.
Would Jose's United have come back from 2-0 down like Spurs yesterday against Juventus in Turin? No we wouldn't. Stop looking at Jose's past for what he and Manchester United are now, it's like people talking about how fantastic Wenger is because of his past.
Football moves on all the time and you only can judge teams and managers how they are performing right now and when i look at all this, it says to me Jose is no longer the special one. How Manchester United are performing right now and Jose's tactics, would you be confident United could go through vs PSG/Barcelona/Real Madrid? I wouldn't, Liverpool vs PSG though, Spurs Vs Madrid etc, far more open ties.
As said i don't even feel we'd go through vs any of the English teams over 2 legs, i look at games between United and these teams in the Premier League to base my opinion on that.
Yeah, I don't think we would have came back the way Spurs did last night, but there's every reason to believe we wouldn't have been two goals behind anyhow. I think past is very much relevant, and if somebody is a good coach, that doesn't just evaporate over night, at the age of 55. He has won a title the season before last, and any difference in the current state of world football compared to two years ago is likely to be more apparent than real. To say nothing of the fact that he has actually won 2 cups (which is even more relevant), last year. So this 'gone are the days' spiel is completely bonkers, as are the comparisons to Wenker (sic).
As for the confidence question, yes I'd be confident that we have a chance, against any of those sides. Liverpool are constantly a hair's breadth away from a defensive calamity, and are behind us in the league (as are Spurs). It's one thing to get excited by their style of play, but to say they have a better chance than us is just needlessly gloomy.
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I was watching City last night and honestly, I do think Aguero will let them down against the best CL sides. The fact they have barely been tested domestically, means they won't be as battle-hardened as they need to be to win the thing.
Jesus and Sane need to be fit and ideally Mendy would have been playing all season.
My prediction will be that Spurs might take out Juve, but that is as far as they will go unless they face an english side or a Porto/Sevilla in the QF's.
City if they face Barca/PSG/Bayern I reckon their defence and Aguero will let them down under the weighty pressure of QF/SF stages.
The rest aren't good enough to win CL, Liverpool's chances went in smoke once they lost Coutinho - I can't see them winning the entire thing, but they're dark horses who can knock any team out on their day as their front three is superb when on song.
Barca should see it home v Chelsea. We should beat Sevilla. Liverpool v Porto is tough to call, really could go either way. If Juve get Dybala etc back for second leg, again another tough one to call.
One thing is for sure, highly doubt all our teams will go through and I reckon overall one maximum will make it to SF, and I don't expect any english side in the Final. Hope I am wrong though. Progress has been made though, the EPL is on the way up again - no doubt, most of our sides are to be feared.. just a tad more strengthening, more experience and in next few seasons EPL can challenge.
Jesus and Sane need to be fit and ideally Mendy would have been playing all season.
My prediction will be that Spurs might take out Juve, but that is as far as they will go unless they face an english side or a Porto/Sevilla in the QF's.
City if they face Barca/PSG/Bayern I reckon their defence and Aguero will let them down under the weighty pressure of QF/SF stages.
The rest aren't good enough to win CL, Liverpool's chances went in smoke once they lost Coutinho - I can't see them winning the entire thing, but they're dark horses who can knock any team out on their day as their front three is superb when on song.
Barca should see it home v Chelsea. We should beat Sevilla. Liverpool v Porto is tough to call, really could go either way. If Juve get Dybala etc back for second leg, again another tough one to call.
One thing is for sure, highly doubt all our teams will go through and I reckon overall one maximum will make it to SF, and I don't expect any english side in the Final. Hope I am wrong though. Progress has been made though, the EPL is on the way up again - no doubt, most of our sides are to be feared.. just a tad more strengthening, more experience and in next few seasons EPL can challenge.
I can understand being a fan of a team but to the point of sticking up for the league it plays in no matter what, is funny to me.
When I say this, both views that overrate and underrate the PL in comparison to other leagues are funny to me.
It screams of people wanting to be validated that they watch the best football in Europe.
When I say this, both views that overrate and underrate the PL in comparison to other leagues are funny to me.
It screams of people wanting to be validated that they watch the best football in Europe.
English sides are strolling through the CL at the minute.
I actually think our tactic of spoiling games away from home could give us a boost in the CL.
I actually think our tactic of spoiling games away from home could give us a boost in the CL.
I mean, it's no Eredivisie, but the prem ain't half bad imo.
On a serious note, the top Championship sides have budgets that dwarf the likes of Ajax and PSV. What the feck do they do with all that money seeing as how shite they are. Makes me wonder.
On a serious note, the top Championship sides have budgets that dwarf the likes of Ajax and PSV. What the feck do they do with all that money seeing as how shite they are. Makes me wonder.
Salaries, that's why so many British players are reticent to move abroad, when you can earn £150k p/a to play in the Championship instead of going abroad to play in a higher league with the chance of CL or EL football for a similar salary seems daft to me.
Excellent point. Money's very much a double-edged sword in the English game.
Yeah. Although I do feel that there is a lot of good teams in the championship
Watch United and Chelsea bring some form balance to the whole thing.
I'd guess a lot of it it's probably due to parachute payments and salaries from the players they had when dropping down into the Championship. Some of the Championship teams are pretty decent though, Bristol City against Man City looked good and Wolves have been very good this season.
The PL is undoubtedly the strongest league in Europe this year. But City is the only one of the English teams that I would fancy in a final against Barsa, Bayern or Madrid.
Far from convincing that Spurs will get through, Juve has been in similar situations before and still manage to steal the win.
At the same time, it can go either way for us, considering how bad we have been recently.
At the same time, it can go either way for us, considering how bad we have been recently.
Maybe against the bigger teams but if we spoil the away against Sevilla, when City and Liverpool have smashed their opposition 4 and 5 zip, I can’t say I’ll be too pleased. Especially considering Sevilla have been thumped a few times already this season.
If we've learned anything from this season it is that the overall standard of the league was never as good as it was touted. This notion that while the spanish clubs may be dominating Europe, they are beating much worse teams at home than the English top clubs have to contend with has simply been proven wrong.
The top english clubs found it harder at home simply because they were not that good, as also shown by the inadequacy in Europe. Now that city are for the moment of a similar level to the top spanish clubs, they are routing the premiership more than any of barca and real have done in la liga.
There aren't many teams, if any, who would do better in la liga than they are doing in England.
The top english clubs found it harder at home simply because they were not that good, as also shown by the inadequacy in Europe. Now that city are for the moment of a similar level to the top spanish clubs, they are routing the premiership more than any of barca and real have done in la liga.
There aren't many teams, if any, who would do better in la liga than they are doing in England.
English team have been very impressive in Europe this season indeed. Shame you cannot take anything away from that as European games do not matter at all, otherwise you would almost have reasons to think that Premier League is currently the strongest league in Europe.
Or maybe English teams are just taking it more serious now? Spurs/Liverpool have all prioritized the Premier League over Champions League recent years, resting players in the Champions League for a big Premier League game at the weekend.
Or maybe English clubs with the money they have and with the best of the best coaches they hire (Pep/Klopp/Jose/Pochettino/Conte etc), the quality is showing more so than we had Moyes/Rodgers/Di Matteo/Redknapp/Avram Grant/Sherwood all managing English clubs in the Champions League?
Maybe European sides will wake up and realise what Leicester etc understand is that you can't attack top 4 sides in England without ridiculous pressing and swift counter attacks.
I'm talking as a whole. You have Chelsea etc go through rough patches but that's down to inner turmoil rather than the qualities of the opposition.
Too many sides are trying to take them on and are being punished because of it.
I'm talking as a whole. You have Chelsea etc go through rough patches but that's down to inner turmoil rather than the qualities of the opposition.
Too many sides are trying to take them on and are being punished because of it.
That’s the spirit! Get the reasons for a good old moan in good and early. Who cares that Sevilla knocked the mighty Liverpool out of a cup competition last season. Nothing less than a four or five nil win will do!
Some people must really hate this thread being bumped.
I think we could beat Sevilla quite easily.
I think we could beat Sevilla quite easily.
This just isn't true. Under Villanova and Enrique Barcelona only dropped 4 more points over the course of the entire season than City have dropped already this season. The current Barcelona side have dropped 10 points this season as opposed to City's 9 points drop (albeit playing 4 games less so far).
Both Villanova and Enrique bettered Pep's best ever points total. Amazing how Barcelona keep promoting these GOAT level managers from inside the club. Kind of makes you think it is a case of having the best players or something.
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Erm when did this happen? Sevilla were knocked out by a relegation troubled Leicester last season. Fecking Leicester! And they’re even worse this season than last. Liverpool weren’t even in Europe last year.
I’m not demanding a thrashing, I’ll be happy as long as it’s a positive attacking performance from us, not the limp shit on a stick football we’ve played against Spurs and Newcastle. It’s not too much to ask considering we’ve got some big names on some big money and we look nowhere near the best teams in this competition.
My bad. Was the season before last. Europa League final.
I'm definitely hoping for/expecting a much better peformance than we saw against Spurs/Newcastle. Don't see why we won't get it either. One (more or less) dead rubber aside we've been extremely convincing in Europe all season.
In a one off match I could fancy most of the PL sides still in the CL against any of them, all are capable whether they turn up is another question. Over two legs is another matter.
We've already seen that Spurs could do it to RM, I think Liverpool and City could too but in all cases it could go either way.
Barca are simply the favourites for me and over two legs are going to beat any team but a referee's decision or mistake could level it up and make things interesting.
Bayern are another matter entirely and I'm not convinced at all they are in the same class. I know pre-season is pre-season but if you watched their matches you'll see they had a major problem with teams pressing them and breaking fast, Inter, AC, Liverpool and Napoli all put them to the sword, in Germany. Since then they also struggled to beat both Feyenoord and Celtic away from home (winning both eventually 1-2) but are in awesome form in the BL (9 wins on hte bounce and one defeat with 14 wins in the past 15). But I could see at least some of the PL teams having a good chance of beating them over two legs. Ditto PSG.
I hope you’re right. These guys need to put a performance in, if anything to send out a message to the rest of Europe. Doesn’t have to be a 5-0 rout as long as it’s a convincing win, playing positive football.
Although I don’t agree with you that we’ve been convincing in Europe - even though our points total says otherwise. Yes, we played extremely well in our first two games against Basel and CSKA but since those games, we’ve flattered to deceive. We faced a shite Benfica side in week 3 and only won because of a huge GK error. We then stumbled against the same opposition at home before parking the bus and failing away at Basel when all we needed was a draw. The CSKA home match was extremely forgettable although if I recall correctly we fell behind and managed to sneak a win.
Forgive me if I don’t share your optimism but any shred of positivity has been drained since those two harrowing away defeats. Hopefully I’ll feel different this time next week.
So far in the CL round of 16 it's 11-2 goals for the PL clubs. The PL is thus ranging safely ahead of the portuguese and swiss leagues, and tied with the italian league. 
Sooooo basically...the best english teams just weren't that good?
Possibly but this last decade United have won the Champions League, reached another 2 finals, Chelsea have reached a final and also won a Champions league, Chelsea have won a Europa League, United have won a Europa League, Liverpool have reached a Europa League final, it's not been a disaster. If it was a disaster English clubs wouldn't still have the prevlidge of being allowed 4 Champions League places still.
Sure the Spanish teams have done well last 4 years overall, but it's the English turn again, i sense you don't like that, deal with it
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PsychicSure the Spanish teams have done well last 4 years overall, but it's the English turn again, i sense you don't like that, deal with it
There is exactly one team i care about and i couldn't care less about the level of domestic competition so long as we keep winning big ears. That wonderful trophy we've won 3 times in the last 4 years
heya twiggy.
not at all, I made you look like a complete idiot when you made it two years ago, everyone had a good laugh at your expense, it was a jolly good badgerin' time I'd say, fueled by your ignorance and idiocy, and at times blatant wummery.
but two years later the English teams are much better, i guess time does that, changes things, makes certain things better, certain things worse, y'know.
so the english teams have gotten better, and you've turned into even more of a wumming tit.
Peace!
Spurs impressed but City and Liverpool had poor opposition. Too early for serious generalisations.
I didn't understand the opening thread, which may say far more about me.. my general thoughts on relative strength of PL... it's a great watch, the football culture in the UK is the perfect foundation for the Prem. It's a global league, tinged with a British-ness. Exciting and unrelenting.
But.. in terms of quality, I don't think it's the best. Who are the best defenders in the Premiership? Have Man City a great defensive unit? Look at us, in second, and we aren't that great by any means. Liverpool slick going forward, but defensively against decent teams?
Spurs lack consistency... but give grounds for a lot of hope it seems.
I am not sure how many players, currently playing in the Premiership, would get into an all time Premiership squad.
However... that being said, I actually think this is a trend that is reflective of the global game. Is Serie A stronger? La Liga? Ligue 1? I could go on. Just not sure whether the quality is getting better. The coverage is far, far, far more intense, and much better than what it was. Pundits are celebrities... but the relative strength? Not so sure.
But it is ultra-competetive. I think the final few weeks of the season are going to be terrifically exciting... with teams battling for everything (except the title itself of course...)
But.. in terms of quality, I don't think it's the best. Who are the best defenders in the Premiership? Have Man City a great defensive unit? Look at us, in second, and we aren't that great by any means. Liverpool slick going forward, but defensively against decent teams?
Spurs lack consistency... but give grounds for a lot of hope it seems.
I am not sure how many players, currently playing in the Premiership, would get into an all time Premiership squad.
However... that being said, I actually think this is a trend that is reflective of the global game. Is Serie A stronger? La Liga? Ligue 1? I could go on. Just not sure whether the quality is getting better. The coverage is far, far, far more intense, and much better than what it was. Pundits are celebrities... but the relative strength? Not so sure.
But it is ultra-competetive. I think the final few weeks of the season are going to be terrifically exciting... with teams battling for everything (except the title itself of course...)
I feel now is the time for PL teams to strike.The Spanish giants and to a certain extent Bayern have ageing teams.Pl teams must start buying aggressively, buy up the best youngish players available.
But the problem is loosing players to the Spanish teams.Coutinho is already gone and there are rumors surrounding Kane, Hazard, DDG, Courtios, Salah.Untill the PL teams stop this poaching by the Spanish teams, I don't think we can ever become as successful as the Spanish ones.But it's sometimes not easy to stop the players from moving but somehow City have done it, they have kept Aguero, Silva, Kompany for most of their prime and have tied down KDB to a long term deal.
But the problem is loosing players to the Spanish teams.Coutinho is already gone and there are rumors surrounding Kane, Hazard, DDG, Courtios, Salah.Untill the PL teams stop this poaching by the Spanish teams, I don't think we can ever become as successful as the Spanish ones.But it's sometimes not easy to stop the players from moving but somehow City have done it, they have kept Aguero, Silva, Kompany for most of their prime and have tied down KDB to a long term deal.
No, it's actually amusing that it makes complete sense now to make a point that PL is the strongest league in Europe as English teams have started to do well in Europe, but you can't actually use that as an argument because for two full years you maintained that European performances do not matter at all.
I don't think many on here are crazy enough to not want the league their team plays in to be as strong as possible. In the long run it will also make United a better team, obviously.
Psychic
There is exactly one team i care about and i couldn't care less about the level of domestic competition so long as we keep winning big ears. That wonderful trophy we've won 3 times in the last 4 years
Yeah well now you're not allowed to win it again for a couple of decades because we've outbid you on the Champions League Winners rights OKAY?
Sorry about that folks, some people don't understand that these things work in cycles and it's the English team turn again.
Oh man, seeing you resort to the conversational informal tone here is really low. Why did you ignore all capital letters ?