There is no luck in winning over two legs. Did you miss the fact Juventus dominated the first half in Turin and could have been 3-0 up before half time?
The relative strength of the Premier League
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There is no luck in winning over two legs. Did you miss the fact Juventus dominated the first half in Turin and could have been 3-0 up before half time?
You’re going from one extreme to the other. Jose has won the Champions League with a defensive approach as many times are Pep has won with an attacking approach.
The only reason this pressing style is deemed the best is because City have won the league.
Just like last season everyone should play 3-5-2 because of Chelsea and many clubs did covert to that formation.
I’m sure if we win the league with a defensive approach a lot more teams will copy that style.
United,Liverpool,Spurs,Chelsea are all bang average compared to the very best in the CL.
It's pretty clear we are not great (but improving) so I cant see how any of the rest above can be that great. Sure any of them could still finish ahead of us but I think any team who wants to be up at Barca,Real and Bayern level would have to be at least 12-15 points better than us over a PL season.
It will be interesting to see if City are up near that level. I would give them a decent chance but I would think their defense is a problem.
I think Juventus are on the decline but still were able to go to Wembley and beat a Spurs team that beat us and Liverpool there pretty easily.
The only really big results for the PL teams so far were Chelsea beating A.Madrid and Spurs beating Real in the group stages. Does anybody rated Dortmund as anything special these days?
Now the PL teams are starting to face the big teams at the knockout stages Spurs are out and Chelsea face a huge challenge.
But overall the PL has improved their CL performances. For years the PL teams were often caught out by the "weaker" teams. Eg Spurs last season in the group stages,United the season before etc. That assumes we knock out Seville
It's pretty clear we are not great (but improving) so I cant see how any of the rest above can be that great. Sure any of them could still finish ahead of us but I think any team who wants to be up at Barca,Real and Bayern level would have to be at least 12-15 points better than us over a PL season.
It will be interesting to see if City are up near that level. I would give them a decent chance but I would think their defense is a problem.
I think Juventus are on the decline but still were able to go to Wembley and beat a Spurs team that beat us and Liverpool there pretty easily.
The only really big results for the PL teams so far were Chelsea beating A.Madrid and Spurs beating Real in the group stages. Does anybody rated Dortmund as anything special these days?
Now the PL teams are starting to face the big teams at the knockout stages Spurs are out and Chelsea face a huge challenge.
But overall the PL has improved their CL performances. For years the PL teams were often caught out by the "weaker" teams. Eg Spurs last season in the group stages,United the season before etc. That assumes we knock out Seville
Who are you trying to convince? People usually try and change history on something about year later, but this was only 2 weeks ago so still fresh in people's memories.
Juventus dominated the first 10 mins in Turin, after that was all Spurs, tonight Juventus was the better team for 5 mins.
The better team lost simple as that, but that's football. 8 times out of 10 Spurs would have gone through.
Yeah, adexkola is weird when it comes to football. He still thinks that Wenger is a great manager and we should have sticked with Moyes.
He is cool otherwise.
@Revan
It was KingMinger to be fair.
He took a break from lambasting our transfer policy for a few minutes to post it
It was KingMinger to be fair.
He took a break from lambasting our transfer policy for a few minutes to post it
I’m changing history? If Higuain has scored a penalty it would have been 3-0. How exactly is that Spurs dominating the entire game? Spurs won the second half maybe.
Anyway that’s the whole, they played well but didn’t win. And that’s the reason why Liverpool and Spurs will never win anything with their current style. Whilst it may be entertaining to watch, the only reason it is, is because they give the opposition opportunities to score. At the top level you get punished for that. Both teams are defensively tactically naive.
I think United and City are England's best shot at a CL winner. While Liverpool has a great offense that defense is going to get exposed heavily. United on the other hand has a relatively solid defensive structure and the PL table doesn't lie, United/City are the 2 best English clubs at the moment.
Liverpool have more chance to score away goals than United. It can be decisive in the CL.
Noticed that the PL is 2nd now in the UEFA rankings, Bundesliga down to 4th.
if it wasn't for United last season, PL would be 3/4 now.
You know, football is actually played at different levels: skills, legs, youth and enthusiasm but also experience, game management, attitude and luck. CL knockout stages are brutal and entertaining for that reason.
They can concede at home too. Look Tottenham among with us and City are best defensive team in England, yet against an top European teams, they conceded quite easily. And Juventus ain't no expansive side in comparison to Bayern, Madrid, Barcelona
Don't bother with that poster. Self claimed Man United fan and would be happy to see L'pool or City win CL. How can you reason with that line of thought?!
The defence has actually massively improved recently, according to xg stats and goals conceded. One goal conceded in the last five games.
I dont think we have much of a chance sadly. We are good defensively but we don't have enough cohesion and fluidity in attack. Were still a team finding that seemless rythme for me. So I don't see us beating the likes of City, Barca, Madrid, Bayern etc.
I suppose if we can elevate ourselves in the final leg of the season you never know. We've got good individual quality so it may just 'click' at some point.
Was inevitable with all your dirty money.
What dirty money are you referring to, specifically?
City, Chelsea. Sold their souls.
But they've been spending for over a decade and the PL hasn't done well in Europe for many of those recent years. The difference in European performances this season has more to do with United, Liverpool & Spurs improving.
Was going to happen the model (50+1) the Bundesliga has in opposition to the other leagues, a model which many Bundesliga fans love and revere about it and seperates it from the rest of the big European leagues. The rule forces clubs to focus more on developing youth, rather than buying expensive players, and also creates an atmosphere that focuses on the fans and local community.
The model may not bring about sustained periods of dominance like we've seen with the EPL in the mid 00's and Spain since then, but it will ensure, with the quality of coaching and youth development throughout the country, that the Bundesliga does continue to stay within the top-4 along with some years where we will see one great team emerge with young players (Dortmund), only for those players to be plucked away soon after because they cannot financially support them. This creates a lot of flux in which clubs make it to the UCL because their best players inevitably are lost to the bigger teams in Germany, and the rest of Europe, and they cannot sustain that success.
Other leagues can see some of their smaller teams (City, PSG) suddenly get an influx of cash and rise up, rather than having to work and build the success. Money ultimately plays a very big role, German clubs (outside of Bayern) cannot match the wages in the rest of the more expensive leagues, or Bayern aswell, and ultimately cannot sustain a great team to consistently challenge in Europe.
Spurs surely deserved some praise, but over two legs and 180 minutes no one can attribute a defeat to mere bad luck or else.
It's the same situation as in most Juve-Napoli games, where Napoli allegedly dominates us for 99% of the game ("They are clearly the superior side!") but eventually always comes out with a loss.
To quote Allegri, the Hottest Team on the Pitch trophy can go to someone else, what really matter in the end are proper trophies and that in the UCL 17/18 Tottenham was eliminated at the Last16 and Juve went through.
No one will remember how Tottenham was "clearly" superior.
If that had really been the case, we would not have had this conversation I argue.
Besides, next time I want to replay the game with a full in form Juve without injuries against a Tottenham side without Eriksen, Dembele and Lamela/Son (to compensate for us missing Dybala, Matuidi and Cuadrado in terms of starting XI) in the first leg and then again in the second leg without Alli, Son and Lamela (missing Mandzukic, Cuadrado and Bernardeschi), with Kane playing with painkillers after not training for 2 weeks and with Eriksen just came back from an almost 2 months injury.
Oh yes, I would have really loved to see that.
Knowing my team, I just laugh when I read that Liverpool will smash trough us: this is exactly the kind of team we thrive with. The same would apply for City, but in this precise case I think it's a 50/50, although I believe that over two legs we have our chances of going through.
To be honest, the only English team that I fear is United, both because of the Mourinho factor and also because it is the most similar to us in terms of tactics and characteristics of players.
It's the same situation as in most Juve-Napoli games, where Napoli allegedly dominates us for 99% of the game ("They are clearly the superior side!") but eventually always comes out with a loss.
To quote Allegri, the Hottest Team on the Pitch trophy can go to someone else, what really matter in the end are proper trophies and that in the UCL 17/18 Tottenham was eliminated at the Last16 and Juve went through.
No one will remember how Tottenham was "clearly" superior.
If that had really been the case, we would not have had this conversation I argue.
Besides, next time I want to replay the game with a full in form Juve without injuries against a Tottenham side without Eriksen, Dembele and Lamela/Son (to compensate for us missing Dybala, Matuidi and Cuadrado in terms of starting XI) in the first leg and then again in the second leg without Alli, Son and Lamela (missing Mandzukic, Cuadrado and Bernardeschi), with Kane playing with painkillers after not training for 2 weeks and with Eriksen just came back from an almost 2 months injury.
Oh yes, I would have really loved to see that.
Knowing my team, I just laugh when I read that Liverpool will smash trough us: this is exactly the kind of team we thrive with. The same would apply for City, but in this precise case I think it's a 50/50, although I believe that over two legs we have our chances of going through.
To be honest, the only English team that I fear is United, both because of the Mourinho factor and also because it is the most similar to us in terms of tactics and characteristics of players.
Spurs battered Juve for the most part.
They looked a class above them.
But they lost. It’s what keeps football interesting.
City have as much quality as anyone in it and are the favourites.
Barca are close.
Then the others... there isn’t a whole lot in it between Real and Bayern and the PL clubs.
The PL is looking very, very strong these days. It looks like the league finally has an exceptional team to compete with the spanish two and Bayern for the first time in a decade.
Hopefully in the next season or two, United and a few others from the PL can get towards that elite team status again.
There is a fair few missing pieces for us though.
They looked a class above them.
But they lost. It’s what keeps football interesting.
City have as much quality as anyone in it and are the favourites.
Barca are close.
Then the others... there isn’t a whole lot in it between Real and Bayern and the PL clubs.
The PL is looking very, very strong these days. It looks like the league finally has an exceptional team to compete with the spanish two and Bayern for the first time in a decade.
Hopefully in the next season or two, United and a few others from the PL can get towards that elite team status again.
There is a fair few missing pieces for us though.
Spurs were better than juventus for about 130 out of 180 minutes. Guess what? In two games against liverpool this season...they were the much better side for 130 out of 180 minutes too!
And unlike Spurs, who have the physicality of Kane and Alli up top giving problems for the defenders and are really fecking good at keeping the ball and cutting off counterattacks, liverpool rely on speed and space behind the defence -two things juventus can shut down against anybody- and are not as good at keeping the ball and cutting of counters...
As for city, guardiola always struggled against allegri, and this time around he doesn't have as big of a individual talent advantage...
I'd be very surprised if liverpool were to eliminate juventus. City would be slight favourites
EPL still has a long way to go to match the money they have with accordingly level of play..
We cannot even get knocked out with some dignity. I bet Chelsea will show more fight
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3 out of 5 English teams could be knocked out before the QF's...
5th team in LaLiga dominating the 2nd best team in England home and away
Man United have better players than Sevilla. But the style of football that is winning in big competitions since the 2000s is heavy possession/attacking football.
La Liga has won every European trophy on offer since 2013 bar one.
And that could have changed had Guidetti actually taken his chance.
It's not even debate at this point.
And that could have changed had Guidetti actually taken his chance.
It's not even debate at this point.
Everyone knows Seville arn't better than United, even Arsenal would go through vs Seville - If they come up against Liverpool or City next round they are getting thrashed and everyone knows it.
This one was more to do with a negative Manchester United manager rather than a reflection of the overall strength of the Premier League.
This one was more to do with a negative Manchester United manager rather than a reflection of the overall strength of the Premier League.
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United isn't the EPL.
Tottenham were the better team against Juve for 90% of that tie, Chelsea have everything to play for against Barca and City and Liverpool are through to the next round. Seems like the EPL is well on its way imo.
Sevilla were worse than Basel and what Benfica has been in the past.. Swiss League > La Liga obviously..
Liverpool drew both games with them.
In midfield and in possession? Absolutely. In defence and attack? Clearly not.
I think everybody outside of England would say that top to bottom La Liga is better than the EPL.
This season? I disagree
Why?
honestly it's irrelevant to compare. The approach play by Mou is pathetic.
The only top team the EPL has is City atm.
Think top to bottom PL is stronger. Bottom 10 in Spain are seriously poor this season, much worse than in England, and top 10 aren't particularly better anymore either
That's because Real and Barca have been so far ahead of the rest.
Sevilla have won 3/4 of the last Europa leagues. I'd be very surprised if Atletico don't win Europa this season. I'd also be surprised if one of Real / Barca and possibly City don't win the CL.
The top teams in La Liga are still better than the PL ones (especially Real and Barca), but the PL as a whole is still a pretty strong league. It's just the top teams in that league have been poor this decade (compared to the 00's) and are slowly making ground. There's been progress (5 teams in the R16), but still a ways to go.