The relative strength of the Premier League

@Thunderhead
Except for the Jesus chance I wouldn't say you had chances where you could say we were lucky not to lose 5-1 though.
You never shifted our defence and Arsenal had the same failings, we always had a player to block or challenge because our defensive unit always felt compact.
 
cyberman said:
@Thunderhead
Except for the Jesus chance I wouldn't say you had chances where you could say we were lucky not to lose 5-1 though.
You never shifted our defence and Arsenal had the same failings, we always had a player to block or challenge because our defensive unit always felt compact.
Click to expand...

yeah that's a fair comment, but isn't that half the problem, Jose is so concerned with keeping the oppo out (which United normally do brilliantly) he forgets to tell the midfielders to supply the strikers and then get forward and support the strikers. I think with a keeper like DDG United should take more risks in big games, he's as likely to save 1v1's and shots from the edge of the box and with Martial and Rashford you're going to cause so many problems if he lets the handbrake off a bit
 
Sarni said:
Well you do have a good point here but none of these would have actually been valid under Wumminator's logic until this season. The only criteria was competitiveness and he used to slam La Liga, Bundesliga and Serie A for being one team leagues where the top team could win 85% of games. Guess what - it's no longer problem when PL leader wins all of them. :)

Some of PL top teams have got better - especially City and United - and top 2 in Spain has definitely got much worse, so there's no longer the huge gap between the top two teams in both leagues. I think in terms of strength it's now very close, although Spanish teams play better technical football and even bottom half teams are usually nice to watch while PL has more tumescent teams playing physical football but also much superior marketing, pace and presentation so it evens out.
Click to expand...


City are just doing better that never happened in the league before meanwhile, Barce/Real Madrid and Bayern have been doing it for years no matter if they drop a bit in quality but they would win the league comfortably, I am yet to see if City can repeat this form next season, I think City will have a problem when Chelsea, Liverpool and United improving their form next season, especially United. I think United are doing a lot of better than expected with 2 position - RW/AM not on form, it is underperforming and Pogba's absence. However, if we assume United is on form and Pogba stay free injury/no suspension, United could've gotten points from Man City and Huddersfield games that'll give them 6 points +38 = 44 points in 17 games.
 
deafepl said:
City are just doing better that never happened in the league before meanwhile, Barce/Real Madrid and Bayern have been doing it for years no matter if they drop a bit in quality but they would win the league comfortably, I am yet to see if City can repeat this form next season, I think City will have a problem when Chelsea, Liverpool and United improving their form next season, especially United. I think United are doing a lot of better than expected with 2 position - RW/AM not on form, it is underperforming and Pogba's absence. However, if we assume United is on form and Pogba stay free injury/no suspension, United could've gotten points from Man City and Huddersfield games that'll give them 6 points +38 = 44 points in 17 games.
Click to expand...

Oh it did happen, not to this extent but when Chelsea and United were properly good they were getting 87-90 points comfortably.
 
Sarni said:
Oh it did happen, not to this extent but when Chelsea and United were properly good they were getting 87-90 points comfortably.
Click to expand...

the big question is can City repeat it again next season?
 
cyberman said:
@AllezLesDiables
I can't agree with that, City had very few chances against us despite all of their possession
Click to expand...

Depends on your definition of chances. City certainly wasn’t playing their best ball but they certainly had some bright ideas on attack that were foiled by sub par execution that was below their norm thus far this year.

It’s no secret how Mourinho planned the match tactically, which is the same he always does ... barricading defense and quick counter attacks.

Part of City’s lack of offensive success was due to plays from United, but Ibfelt that most of the issues City was having was self-inflicted.
 
Wumminator said:
Players like Zaha, Begovic, Sakho, Hernandez, Butland, Jonny Evans , Abraham would be good signings for teams going for Europe I imagine. What about Spain?
Click to expand...

Likes of Remy, Vitolo and Jonathon Vieria play for Las Palmas. Hasn't Lemos at the back been linked to a few big clubs aswell.

Alaves have Munir on loan from Barca.

Malaga have Penaranda who's been linked to Real Madrid in the past although he's in the Jack Grealish development stage.

Don't forget Bilbao are down there aswell, Amyeric Lamporte, remember him? Inaki Williams would do well in premier league aswell as of course would Raul Garcia.
 
FootballHQ said:
Likes of Remy, Vitolo and Jonathon Vieria play for Las Palmas. Hasn't Lemos at the back been linked to a few big clubs aswell.

Alaves have Munir on loan from Barca.

Malaga have Penaranda who's been linked to Real Madrid in the past although he's in the Jack Grealish development stage.

Don't forget Bilbao are down there aswell, Amyeric Lamporte, remember him? Inaki Williams would do well in premier league aswell as of course would Raul Garcia.
Click to expand...

We most definitely don't remember him.:p
 
Sorry Laporte. :lol:

I was going to say on him, is it still expected he will reach the very top or did the injury mess him up a bit? If it wasn't for that he'd be playing for Man. City by now.

Can he still play for Spain or did he actually play for France, can't quite remember as it's gone on all quiet on that front.
 
I’ve only just now realised Sarni’s point.

It has literally taken me this long to realise it. He thinks that I’ve said because a league is competitive that it means that’s a strong league.

Absolute nonsense. In order to deal with his own nonsense that I’ve quoted on prior pages that has been proven wrong, he’s made a complete straw man.

My logic was always that the premier league had so much money the lower teams were harder to play against. They had more quality.

Sarni.... that is still the case.


What is happening now however is the bigger prem clubs are getting further ahead of them and it’s reuslting in them being some of the strongest squads in the world. We’ve had to adapt to the competitive nature of the prem by assembling some of the best teams around.

Sometimes it frustrates me arguing on here because SO many people try and argue against something they can understand.. rather than what is being said.
 
He could play for Spain and he won't take Umtiti's place in the french team.
 
Sarni said:
Shaqiri only came to the league because he failed elsewhere. Actually Afellay has been used as example and he failed at Schalke. Lukaku is a good footballer playing for a mid-table side. So are a few of Valencia players, or Leverkusen and Wolfsburg players (Draxler for instance is excellent talent).

Douglas Costa doesn't even play in Premier League.
Click to expand...
Sarni, still think Draxler and Lukaku are similar talents?
 
Wumminator said:
I’ve only just now realised Sarni’s point.

It has literally taken me this long to realise it. He thinks that I’ve said because a league is competitive that it means that’s a strong league.

Absolute nonsense. In order to deal with his own nonsense that I’ve quoted on prior pages that has been proven wrong, he’s made a complete straw man.

My logic was always that the premier league had so much money the lower teams were harder to play against. They had more quality.

Sarni.... that is still the case.


What is happening now however is the bigger prem clubs are getting further ahead of them and it’s reuslting in them being some of the strongest squads in the world. We’ve had to adapt to the competitive nature of the prem by assembling some of the best teams around.

Sometimes it frustrates me arguing on here because SO many people try and argue against something they can understand.. rather than what is being said.
Click to expand...

It's literally what was your argument, that top PL teams don't get high points total because the league is so incredibly strong and they cannot compete in Europe because they are too tired from playing in Premier League.

It's the case for La Liga teams now. In the meantime PL has become a one horse pub league.
 
Wumminator said:
A quote from me earlier on in the thread.


FFS Sarni, still feel really clever for bumping this thread?
Click to expand...

I just bumped it because I thought it's interesting that PL has become a one team pub league like La Liga and Serie A were while they have become much better and more competitive which resulted in worse European performance.

I am actually telling you that you were right all along. It's just that the power has shifted outside PL now. PL was great and competitive but it's not anymore, it's exactly like Bundesliga when Pep was there. In the meantime other leagues have closed the gap and are very competitive now.
 
Sarni said:
It's literally what was your argument, that top PL teams don't get high points total because the league is so incredibly strong and they cannot compete in Europe because they are too tired from playing in Premier League.

.
Click to expand...

Ah Sarni, you’re falling into a logical trap here mate. I get it now, I can understand why you think I said that (even though I’ve literally just posted a quote that says the opposite of this from earlier in the thread)

La Liga hasn’t gotten strong teams at all. The bottom teams are mostly still dross. It’s just the top teams are weakening.

premier league bottom teams are still very strong (for the most part). It’s just the top teams have improved further.

Does that clear it up?
 
Wumminator said:
Ah Sarni, you’re falling into a logical trap here mate. I get it now, I can understand why you think I said that (even though I’ve literally just posted a quote that says the opposite of this from earlier in the thread)

La Liga hasn’t gotten strong teams at all. The bottom teams are mostly still dross. It’s just the top teams are weakening.

premier league bottom teams are still very strong (for the most part). It’s just the top teams have improved further.

Does that clear it up?
Click to expand...

So you are saying that we were all on the same page from the beginning and you were arguing for the sake of it?
 
It looks someone is struggling to make the case for the Emptyhad League...
 
Yeah, the Emptyhad league. That side who have 1 more league title than Leicester since the takeover.
The Emptyhad league ladies and gentlemen..
 
At the end of the season we shall see the strength of the League... maybe I will surprise a few here with my comments...
 
Just to set the record straight:

Spain 15 games:
Farca 39
Valencia 34
Patetico 33
Best Club in the history of the Universe 31
Sevilla 29(16 games)

PL after 17
City 49
United 38
Chelsea 35
Spurs, Liverpool 31

If you look back to last season, you'd see a similar result

So, either the top PL sides have become much better than the top spanish sides over the last two years, or the argument for the strength of the bottom feeders goes right out the window

Having money doesn't help when you spend it on overpriced bang average players

Take a look at how much money leicester spent on the 3 key players of their title season. Then take a look at what spurs, liverpool, everton did with the Bale/Suarez/Lukaku money. Take a look at how money correlated to league form for the middle-class and bottom feeders over the last 2-3 seasons
 
giorno said:
Just to set the record straight:

Spain 15 games:
Farca 39
Valencia 34
Patetico 33
Best Club in the history of the Universe 31
Sevilla 29(16 games)

PL after 17
City 49
United 38
Chelsea 35
Spurs, Liverpool 31

If you look back to last season, you'd see a similar result

So, either the top PL sides have become much better than the top spanish sides over the last two years, or the argument for the strength of the bottom feeders goes right out the window

Having money doesn't help when you spend it on overpriced bang average players

Take a look at how much money leicester spent on the 3 key players of their title season. Then take a look at what spurs, liverpool, everton did with the Bale/Suarez/Lukaku money. Take a look at how money correlated to league form for the middle-class and bottom feeders over the last 2-3 seasons
Click to expand...

Thought for a moment that a 4 years old kid has hijacked your account.

Otherwise, agree with the post.
 
Revan said:
Thought for a moment that a 4 years old kid has hijacked your account.

Otherwise, agree with the post.
Click to expand...
I'm a grown man bed-ridden with the flu, i'm basically 3yo at the moment :lol:
 
Five English teams in the CL knockouts and a league set for its third different winner in three seasons seems a bizarre time to bring this point up
 
Wumminator said:
Ah Sarni, you’re falling into a logical trap here mate. I get it now, I can understand why you think I said that (even though I’ve literally just posted a quote that says the opposite of this from earlier in the thread)

La Liga hasn’t gotten strong teams at all. The bottom teams are mostly still dross. It’s just the top teams are weakening.

premier league bottom teams are still very strong (for the most part). It’s just the top teams have improved further.

Does that clear it up?
Click to expand...

I'm not really the one falling into logical trap here. Your argument for La Liga being crap was that top teams were winning games there week in week out. Now that it's happening in Premier League, funnily with exactly the same manager who was doing that at Barcelona and Bayern, it's no longer a problem.

And you have no idea about the quality of bottom La Liga clubs because you have personally admitted that you don't watch the league at all and don't know any players. Besides I am not really a fan of insulting football clubs that you have no clue about. Seems very condescending.

And I frankly don't think PL bottom teams are strong. Now that top of the league is strong it kind of shows, they mostly dispose of smaller teams without problem.
 
Last edited:
VP said:
Five English teams in the CL knockouts and a league set for its third different winner in three seasons seems a bizarre time to bring this point up
Click to expand...
No, it's exactly the perfect moment. Back when it was La Liga in this position Wum said it didn't matter at all because a) Champions League results don't matter, b) PL teams are tired because the league was competitive and La Liga wasn't, c) he does not know any players from bottom 10 La Liga teams so they must be terrible cretins.

I was interested whether the argument is still valid now because it is exactly the same situation. PL has one great and 4-5 good teams who look way above the rest and win games consistently, while La Liga top teams are struggling to win games domestically and also struggle in Europe which is why the league is still wide open and their teams are losing to English teams in Europe.

Turns out this argument only worked in favour of Premier League.

Now is actually the time to say objectively that it is possible that PL has caught up with or overtaken La Liga as the best league but it would be massive hypocrisy from Wumminator to say this currently because virtually ALL of his argument from the past work in the opposite direction currently (PL is dominated by 1 team, there is little competition).

I can now say that PL is the best league because I am still using the same criteria I used to. However if Wum says that it's going to be a little hypocritical when he was literally calling ALL other leagues pub leagues for the last few years because they were dominated by one or two teams, and was of the opinion that PL is not because it's so immensely strong when everyone including me kept telling him that was because there was not a single great team in it (proven by European performances).
 
Last edited:
All major leagues have declined really if you value competitiveness, it was much more fun in the 90s when league winners won with less than 80 points.

Didn't the 98/99 Man. United team "only" win the league with 78 points. And they won the flipping treble!
 
FootballHQ said:
All major leagues have declined really if you value competitiveness, it was much more fun in the 90s when league winners won with less than 80 points.

Didn't the 98/99 Man. United team "only" win the league with 78 points. And they won the flipping treble!
Click to expand...

You now have superteams at national level, let's move them and the game to a SuperLeague format a la NBA then.
 
Just having a look at La Liga....Barca won 97/98 with "just" 74 points. Real Madrid only got 63 that season.

98/99 they won it again with 79 points.

Real Madrid won with 80 points in 2000/01.

Arsenal won premier league in 97/98 with 78 points.

Man. United's treble winners won 79 points.

Not looking at Seria A as they only have 18 teams in the league in that period so bit difficult to gauge the averages.

All those were very good teams in their own right and obviously all fondly remembered by their fans but none of them secured more than 80 points over a 38 game season which looks incredible now.

I remember that season when Real Madrid finished second and shot 90 points. Think it was Pellegrini season although Mourinho must've had a similar campaign when he was challenging Pep at Barca.
 
Wumminator said:
I’ve only just now realised Sarni’s point.

It has literally taken me this long to realise it. He thinks that I’ve said because a league is competitive that it means that’s a strong league.

Absolute nonsense. In order to deal with his own nonsense that I’ve quoted on prior pages that has been proven wrong, he’s made a complete straw man.

My logic was always that the premier league had so much money the lower teams were harder to play against. They had more quality.

Sarni.... that is still the case.


What is happening now however is the bigger prem clubs are getting further ahead of them and it’s reuslting in them being some of the strongest squads in the world. We’ve had to adapt to the competitive nature of the prem by assembling some of the best teams around.

Sometimes it frustrates me arguing on here because SO many people try and argue against something they can understand.. rather than what is being said.
Click to expand...
Yet none of our teams are littered with players who you would say are top top in the world in their respective positions
 
Wumminator said:
I’ve only just now realised Sarni’s point.

It has literally taken me this long to realise it. He thinks that I’ve said because a league is competitive that it means that’s a strong league.

Absolute nonsense. In order to deal with his own nonsense that I’ve quoted on prior pages that has been proven wrong, he’s made a complete straw man.

My logic was always that the premier league had so much money the lower teams were harder to play against. They had more quality.

Sarni.... that is still the case.


What is happening now however is the bigger prem clubs are getting further ahead of them and it’s reuslting in them being some of the strongest squads in the world. We’ve had to adapt to the competitive nature of the prem by assembling some of the best teams around.

Sometimes it frustrates me arguing on here because SO many people try and argue against something they can understand.. rather than what is being said.
Click to expand...
Can you imagine the records City would break in Spain, Italy and Germany? Probably wouldn't drop a single point all season long.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.