The RedCafe Boxing Thread

Kag said:
The inherent quality of Fury's fight with Wlad has been hugely overstated with hindsight (and injury/being a drug-induced halfwit).

Fury fought well but it wasn't a particularly great exhibition of Wlad's real quality. The suggestion that Fury's win, irrespective of where it was, was better than Joshua's is just daft. Joshua knocked the bloke into space on three occasions. The only reason it happened three times was due to the impressive effort made by Wlad to come back with a bang and take big hits on the chin. Boxing isn't about awkwardness; it's about fighting.
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But that's one of the tools in Fury's game. He can make the fight awkward, he can take away his opponents strengths and drag then into the fight he wants. People don't like it but it's a skill. Ok Fury didn't knock Klitschko out, but he didn't get floored by him either. It's not as exciting as watching two guys slug it out, but tactically and technically it's better. Fury didn't just run either, he was beating Vlad on the jab when he wanted to, which is Vlad's bread and butter.

I heard people lay the same criticism at Mayweather (not to compare them) but I just don't think people appreciate good defense. In boxing defence is much harder to hone than offence imo.
 
Kag said:
The inherent quality of Fury's fight with Wlad has been hugely overstated with hindsight (and injury/being a drug-induced halfwit).

Fury fought well but it wasn't a particularly great exhibition of Wlad's real quality. The suggestion that Fury's win, irrespective of where it was, was better than Joshua's is just daft. Joshua knocked the bloke into space on three occasions. The only reason it happened three times was due to the impressive effort made by Wlad to come back with a bang and take big hits on the chin. Boxing isn't about awkwardness; it's about fighting.
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Boxing is called the sweet science for the exact opposite reason to what you stated. It's all about hitting and not being hit. Fighting is what fans like to see because it's seen as more exciting then seeing someone having a great defence and avoiding getting into a tear up. Like someone mentioned above when was the last time a heavyweight did what Fury did in that fight?

Fighters like Mayweather, Whitaker, Rigondeaux and Ward were all excellent boxers who placed importance on avoiding punishment, but were/are not exciting to most people. Anyone who's stepped into a ring or tried to box will know that its easy to get into a slugfest, but actually learning to move and to master defence takes so much skill and time. In my opinion that Fury win over Wlad was significantly better than Joshuas for all the reasons mentioned above; Joshua may have got the knockout, but Fury won the fight without breaking a sweat really. To each there own, but a good boxer will always beat a good fighter (Ward v Froch, Mayweather v Hatton).
 
Habs said:
Boxing is called the sweet science for the exact opposite reason to what you stated. It's all about hitting and not being hit. Fighting is what fans like to see because it's seen as more exciting then seeing someone having a great defence and avoiding getting into a tear up. Like someone mentioned above when was the last time a heavyweight did what Fury did in that fight?

Fighters like Mayweather, Whitaker, Rigondeaux and Ward were all excellent boxers who placed importance on avoiding punishment, but were/are not exciting to most people. Anyone who's stepped into a ring or tried to box will know that its easy to get into a slugfest, but actually learning to move and to master defence takes so much skill and time. In my opinion that Fury win over Wlad was significantly better than Joshuas for all the reasons mentioned above; Joshua may have got the knockout, but Fury won the fight without breaking a sweat really. To each there own, but a good boxer will always beat a good fighter (Ward v Froch, Mayweather v Hatton).
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That’s where your point falls down. There was barely any hitting from either men. Fury did just enough to win the round, Klitschko did nothing at all. It’s clear as day the Wlad that fought Joshua was far more prepared than the one who had fought Fury. Wlad hadn’t done his homework on Fury and got embarrassed. If Wlad has lost to Josh first I think we would’ve seen a far more even fight against Fury.
 
Lol Fury still not getting the credit he deserves. It’s cool though, cause he will eventually be in the ring with Joshua. Will be so funny when the flat slob proves everyone wrong yet again.
 
ivaldo said:
That’s where your point falls down. There was barely any hitting from either men. Fury did just enough to win the round, Klitschko did nothing at all. It’s clear as day the Wlad that fought Joshua was far more prepared than the one who had fought Fury. Wlad hadn’t done his homework on Fury and got embarrassed. If Wlad has lost to Josh first I think we would’ve seen a far more even fight against Fury.
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Fury knew it too, hence why the rematch never happened.

Wlad thought it’d be an easy pay day, but it ended up being one of the shittest heavyweight title fights in history. Fury was awkward, Wlad was unprepared and then Fury fecked off for three years knowing he’d never better that night. I very much doubt he’ll ever fight again, he’ll live off that one boring night vs Wlad for the rest of his cretin pikey life.
 
ivaldo said:
That’s where your point falls down. There was barely any hitting from either men. Fury did just enough to win the round, Klitschko did nothing at all. It’s clear as day the Wlad that fought Joshua was far more prepared than the one who had fought Fury. Wlad hadn’t done his homework on Fury and got embarrassed. If Wlad has lost to Josh first I think we would’ve seen a far more even fight against Fury.
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Imo Vlad just couldn't do shit about it. Fury was too good defensively and Vlad was left frustrated all night. I've seen Fury perform better too.

What a massive coincidence that he was "better prepared" for Joshua. I think it was more a case of Joshua being there to his and Vlad therefore looking better. Its funny how the one time Vlad decide not to prepare for a fight it's against Tyson Fury, what a lucky guy Tyson is.
 
pocco said:
Imo Vlad just couldn't do shit about it. Fury was too good defensively and Vlad was left frustrated all night. I've seen Fury perform better too.

What a massive coincidence that he was "better prepared" for Joshua. I think it was more a case of Joshua being there to his and Vlad therefore looking better. Its funny how the one time Vlad decide not to prepare for a fight it's against Tyson Fury, what a lucky guy Tyson is.
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You can pretend all you like mate. The fight was an absolute mess. Wlad came in lighter than he had ever been against Joshua and by his own admission thinks Joshua is "hands down" the best heavyweight.

I suppose it's also a "coincidence" Fury ran away from boxing the moment he got a title. He's been perfectly happy to base his legacy on a single fight. At least now he can stick his fingers in his ears and tell the world he's the undefeated heavyweight champion. He knows how lucky he got in that match up and never had any intention of defending his belt in a rematch. If Fury had fought absolutely anyone else of note you could perhaps make that argument, but he hasn't. And he won't.

Spot on @Regulus Arcturus Black
 
ivaldo said:
You can pretend all you like mate. The fight was an absolute mess. Wlad came in lighter than he had ever been against Joshua and by his own admission thinks Joshua is "hands down" the best heavyweight.

I suppose it's also a "coincidence" Fury ran away from boxing the moment he got a title. He's been perfectly happy to base his legacy on a single fight. At least now he can stick his fingers in his ears and tell the world he's the undefeated heavyweight champion. He knows how lucky he got in that match up and never had any intention of defending his belt in a rematch. If Fury had fought absolutely anyone else of note you could perhaps make that argument, but he hasn't. And he won't.

Spot on @Regulus Arcturus Black
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This is such a weird perspective to me. You can get lucky with a knockout but it is very hard to base a points win where you control nearly every round on luck. Fury was a nightmare matchup for Wlad due to his size, awkward approach and movement.

I personally think AJ will finish Fury, especially if he focuses on body shots to a soft core (to say the least). But the reason the AJ fight was more exciting was because AJ decided to throw caution to the wind and Wlad agreed. More exciting doesn't mean better though, truth is both guys beat him and Fury did it with substantially less risk for loss or brain trauma, there is an easy case to argue for his win being better.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Wlad prepared poorly for plenty of fights when he thought he could just turn up and win, but there’s no doubting Fury’s style was beyond awkward for him.
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You can't mean his fitness or how seriously he took it. So I imagine you are referring to him having the wrong game plan, which could essentially be argued as the reason any fighter lost any fight ever.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
This is such a weird perspective to me. You can get lucky with a knockout but it is very hard to base a points win where you control nearly every round on luck. Fury was a nightmare matchup for Wlad due to his size, awkward approach and movement.

I personally think AJ will finish Fury, especially if he focuses on body shots to a soft core (to say the least). But the reason the AJ fight was more exciting was because AJ decided to throw caution to the wind and Wlad agreed. More exciting doesn't mean better though, truth is both guys beat him and Fury did it with substantially less risk for loss or brain trauma, there is an easy case to argue for his win being better.
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Luck in that Wlad came into the match completely unprepared. As RAB said Klitschko stepped into the ring expecting it to be a routine bout, no different to any other fight he had had in the last decade (Povetkin excluded). Joshua did not get that luxury. I think Fury knows this, and the whole "lack of motivation" story he had continually spun since, right down to the admittance he was downed 3 times in training, was just his way of avoiding a rematch or a test against another quality boxer like Joshua. Seems plenty have bought it.
 
ivaldo said:
Luck in that Wlad came into the match completely unprepared. As RAB said Klitschko stepped into the ring expecting it to be a routine bout, no different to any other fight he had had in the last decade (Povetkin excluded). Joshua did not get that luxury. I think Fury knows this, and the whole "lack of motivation" story he had continually spun since, right down to the admittance he was downed 3 times in training, was just his way of avoiding a rematch or a test against another quality boxer like Joshua. Seems plenty have bought it.
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Wlad was a machine. He was impeccable in his preparation and he looked at those belts like his kids. He had the wrong game plan, that is at large down to Fury being a nightmare matchup (for Wlad specifically) that mitigates most game plans.

To be fair to Fury he was ready to take the fight with Haye very early in his career and he even started press for the rematch with Wlad.

It wasn't a lack of motivation, it was being addicted to substances and having a complete lack of discipline. That is actually much worse but much more accurate. If you really think that was all some ploy to avoid the rematch because he was scared of Wlad then I'm not sure what to tell you.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
Wlad was a machine. He was impeccable in his preparation and he looked at those belts like his kids. He had the wrong game plan, that is at large down to Fury being a nightmare matchup (for Wlad specifically) that mitigates most game plans.

To be fair to Fury he was ready to take the fight with Haye very early in his career and he even started press for the rematch with Wlad.

It wasn't a lack of motivation, it was being addicted to substances and having a complete lack of discipline. That is actually much worse but much more accurate. If you really think that was all some ploy to avoid the rematch because he was scared of Wlad then I'm not sure what to tell you.
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He quite literally said himself he was lacking motivation. From the day he won he repeatedly talked about winning in a rematch or against anyone else would not match the night he won the title. Google it, it's not hard to find the piles upon piles of articles that state this. He's created this merry little story and unbelievably, plenty of people like yourself have gobbled it up.

He didn't have the wrong game plan, he didn't have a game plan at all. It was poor preparation brought on from complacency. Indeed he adored being champion, hence the focus he had in the match against Joshua.
 
Parker is a journeyman despite the belt. Was very underwhelming in his last fight against a nobody.

Joshua within 5 rounds.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Absolutely, it happens plenty. Joshua in his last bout for example.

As I say, Fury was awkward and it was a good performance in the sense that it got him the belt. That said, it was an awful fight and was no “masterclass” a la Mayweather as some now like to make out.
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I think he weighed six pounds more than the AJ fight. Given Fury's size and the fact Wlad wouldn't have had a speed advantage whatever weight he came in at it was a good idea. If you are saying Wladimir Klitschko lacked in motivation or didn't take it seriously enough then again I am lost for words. Those belts where like an obsession to him.

We probably agree on that. There is obviously a level between a Mayweather masterclass and 'lucky'. It was a very good performance, early in his career but also one that his physical gifts played a big part in.
 
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ivaldo said:
He quite literally said himself he was lacking motivation. From the day he won he repeatedly talked about winning in a rematch or against anyone else would not match the night he won the title. Google it, it's not hard to find the piles upon piles of articles that state this. He's created this merry little story and unbelievably, plenty of people like yourself have gobbled it up.

He didn't have the wrong game plan, he didn't have a game plan at all. It was poor preparation brought on from complacency. Indeed he adored being champion, hence the focus he had in the match against Joshua.
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He can say what he likes. It is not the root of the problem. The reason he is lacking motivation is because he was busy throwing his career high pay day up his nose.

You seem to be very emotionally invested in this. No need to be.

Wlad had the same game plan Emanuel Steward had given him years before. The same one he had given to Lewis late in his career. The same game plan that saw him dominate the entire division for years on end.

Ironic that his obsession with being champion only lead him to take the Joshua fight seriously.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
Parker is a journeyman despite the belt. Was very underwhelming in his last fight against a nobody.

Joshua within 5 rounds.
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I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being fairly accurate. He's never fought anyone, people talk about his "granite chin" but it's never been tested by anyone of note.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being fairly accurate. He's never fought anyone, people talk about his "granite chin" but it's never been tested by anyone of note.
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He was fighting Fury who didn't win but also never looked troubled. I can't see him landing anything significant on Joshua. He doesn't have the power and he hasn't been tested with the power Joshua has.

It's a typical Hearn fight. Build up a non entity through marketing (has a belt, undefeated), only to see Joshua wipe the canvas with him and then the talk will be Wilder/Whyte, or Joshua/Wilder.
 
Kag said:
The inherent quality of Fury's fight with Wlad has been hugely overstated with hindsight (and injury/being a drug-induced halfwit).

Fury fought well but it wasn't a particularly great exhibition of Wlad's real quality. The suggestion that Fury's win, irrespective of where it was, was better than Joshua's is just daft. Joshua knocked the bloke into space on three occasions. The only reason it happened three times was due to the impressive effort made by Wlad to come back with a bang and take big hits on the chin. Boxing isn't about awkwardness; it's about fighting.
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I think you're downplaying Fury's achievement here. Boxing is about winning. How you do it is beside the point, and Fury's mantra isn't dissimilar to Mayweather's (though at a less elite level). Hit and don't get hit. Win on points and nullify the opponent. You see echoes of it in Billy Joe's style which is essentially Fury at middleweight.

Taking the belt from a fighter undefeated so long on his own turf, winning nearly every round in the process (in my opinion, scorecards a little closer), was very impressive. Whether you liked the look of the fight or not doesn't really matter. He got the job done where countless others (Povetkin with home advantage, et al) had failed miserably.

For Fury, boxing is very much about awkwardness and there's nothing wrong with that.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
He was fighting Fury who didn't win but also never looked troubled. I can't see him landing anything significant on Joshua. He doesn't have the power and he hasn't been tested with the power Joshua has.

It's a typical Hearn fight. Build up a non entity through marketing (has a belt, undefeated), only to see Joshua wipe the canvas with him and then the talk will be Wilder/Whyte, or Joshua/Wilder.
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I think he's going to be absolutely shocked when Joshua connects with a solid shot. After that I wouldn't be surprised to see AJ impose his will on him and finish it in the middle rounds.

I really can't see the Wilder fight happening next. I hope so and I think AJ cleans him out but I reckon it will either be Big Baby Miller or his mandatory. (Not sure when the mandatories will be called mind).
 
The Bloody-Nine said:
AJ knocked him out. Fury ran and threw arm punches in the worst HW title fight of all time.
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He won, and in Germany too. It wasn't a classic fight but he totally controlled the fight and got the W. He really couldn't have 'played' it any better. No one knows what his level will be when he comes back, but if he can get himself into decent shape, them he would be a massive problem for any HW. A Fury-Joshua fight would be absolutely massive.
 
VorZakone said:
How good is this Parker fella?
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Been distinctly unimpressed. I can't wait to see how his 'miracle chin' holds up against Joshua. Cannot see how he could possible win aainst AJ - maybe his gameplan will be to use just be awkward, and basically box on the back foot all night and hope to win on points. Anyway, I'm predicting a TKO within 6-8 rounds.
 
RedFish said:
Been distinctly unimpressed. I can't wait to see how his 'miracle chin' holds up against Joshua. Cannot see how he could possible win aainst AJ - maybe his gameplan will be to use just be awkward, and basically box on the back foot all night and hope to win on points. Anyway, I'm predicting a TKO within 6-8 rounds.
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This is probably his best chance and hope that AJ gasses. Can't see it happening though.
 
HI;'abs said:
You edited the above post where you copied the article after you realised it had nothing to do with the fight like you thought you did and tried to make it seem like you had read it. Just so you know, everyone can see edited posts and your original post is in my quote.
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No, I didn't. Why do you feel the need to lie?

Not only that, the article, which isn't about the fight like you thought it was, literally has only 2 lines commenting on the fight, tell me how does that back your point as the fight 'being recognised as widely terrible"? You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. 95% of Mayweathers fights were exactly like that, people like you think they're terrible because there wasn't a flashy knockdown. It took alot more skill doing what Fury did to Wlad, Joshua had a good win but was almost stopped on his feet.

Like I said go to sleep, you can use the word 'embarrassing' as many times as you want, it doesn't make it true. You've shown you know nothing about boxing just hating on a guy for other reasons rather than his skill, but maybe you can google something else and quote 1 line out of a whole article to somehow make your post relevant.
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Would you like more links agreeing with me (and others in this thread) that the 'fight' was one of the worst HW title fights of all time? I can easily provide them.

Also, I've been a fan of boxing longer than you've been alive. I don't like Fury because he's a misogynistic, homophobic drug cheat who attracts clueless fanboys like you. But hey, you found Fury landing 86 arm punches in 12 rounds a masterclass, so I should probably ignore you.
 
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The Bloody-Nine said:
No, I didn't. Why do you feel the need to lie?


Would you like more links agreeing with me (and others in this thread) that the 'fight' was one of the worst HW title fights of all time? I can easily provide them.

Also, I've been a fan of boxing longer than you've been alive. I don't like Fury because he's a misogynistic, homophobic drug cheat who attracts clueless fanboys like you. But hey, you found Fury landing 86 arm punches in 12 rounds a masterclass, so I should probably ignore you.
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By this statement, you must be at bare minimum 35. And you’re using words like fanboy?

Have a word with yourself man you’ve embarrassed yourself in here.
 
Arbitrium said:
My views centre around character analysis. What’s blind to you is transparent to others.

Enjoy the fight tonight.
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I will. You too.

By the way, holding a grudge against someone because you had a disagreement with them on an online forum is tragic.

Something to think about.
 
ivaldo said:
You can pretend all you like mate. The fight was an absolute mess. Wlad came in lighter than he had ever been against Joshua and by his own admission thinks Joshua is "hands down" the best heavyweight.

I suppose it's also a "coincidence" Fury ran away from boxing the moment he got a title. He's been perfectly happy to base his legacy on a single fight. At least now he can stick his fingers in his ears and tell the world he's the undefeated heavyweight champion. He knows how lucky he got in that match up and never had any intention of defending his belt in a rematch. If Fury had fought absolutely anyone else of note you could perhaps make that argument, but he hasn't. And he won't.

Spot on @Regulus Arcturus Black
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Vlad would say that, Joshua and Vlad have been close for years whilst Tyson took the piss out of Vlad for years. Do you think Vlad was ever going to give Tyson that crown? No fecking chance.

And I bet you're wrong. Fury will hopefully fight again, but if you think he's scared then you're talking out of your backside. Nobody had done anything against Vlad in a long time before he fought him, why didn't he duck that fight? Vlad was the undisputed no.1 in the division. Why would he duck AJ or anyone else when each have pretty obvious flaws that Tyson probably has the nous to expose.
 
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