The RedCafe Boxing Thread

cyberman said:
MMA legend Brendan Schaub rates the Wilder fight as the greatest heavyweight fight of all time
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So he's mental? He must've missed Joshua-Klit, Holyfield-Bowe series, Bowe-Golota fights, Ibeabuchi-Tua, Lewis-Vitali, Harris-Jefferson, Moorer-Cooper just to mention fights of the last 20-30 years.

It was fun but not a truly great fight IMO. I was on the edge of my seat though. Wilder being so unskilled and dumb but having the most one shot power I can recall is good live TV but not great technique.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
So he's mental? He must've missed Joshua-Klit, Holyfield-Bowe series, Bowe-Golota fights, Ibeabuchi-Tua, Lewis-Vitali, Harris-Jefferson, Moorer-Cooper just to mention fights of the last 20-30 years.

It was fun but not a truly great fight IMO. I was on the edge of my seat though. Wilder being so unskilled and dumb but having the most one shot power I can recall is good live TV but not great technique.
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Isn't it bizarre though? It's like everything you shouldn't do in a ring, but at the same time, it's perfect for him because that same window of opportunity that is supposedly there to nail him could be a massive backfire at any time.

A guy who can't box might become the unified champion of the heavyweight division! Unprecedented and insane!
 
The contaminated beef excuse is pathetic. Why doesn't every Mexican fail tests? The levels that Canelo and Nery failed with aren't found just in eating a piece of beef here and there. They are just using it as an excuse. Clenbuterol is used by a lot of body builders. It's for rapid weight loss, increased energy, retention of lean muscle, strength and greater determination.

It could also explain why Canelo was so against the WBC and not wanting to fight for their titles recently.
 
Would explain his lean, muscular physique and helping to retain that muscle mass which is so difficult to do in a sport like boxing. Even though it's not classed as a steroid, it shares similar anabolic-like effects.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
The contaminated beef excuse is pathetic. Why doesn't every Mexican fail tests? The levels that Canelo and Nery failed with aren't found just in eating a piece of beef here and there. They are just using it as an excuse. Clenbuterol is used by a lot of body builders. It's for rapid weight loss, increased energy, retention of lean muscle, strength and greater determination.

It could also explain why Canelo was so against the WBC and not wanting to fight for their titles recently.
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Clen is used for cutting and better cardio in bodybuilding. If Canelo is taking it on the down low then it is almost certainly to improve his cardio, which is something it can dramatically help with.
 
Utdstar01 said:
Would explain his lean, muscular physique and helping to retain that muscle mass which is so difficult to do in a sport like boxing. Even though it's not classed as a steroid, it shares similar anabolic-like effects.
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Apparently the amount of Clenbuterol in Canelo's sample is 10 times that of Contador's. This should be a big problem for Canelo but with all the politics i wonder how it will play through.
 
Verbalkint said:
Apparently the amount of Clenbuterol in Canelo's sample is 10 times that of Contador's. This should be a big problem for Canelo but with all the politics i wonder how it will play through.
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The WBC, WBA cleared him and said he's good right away before any "investigation". Canelo has been caught red handed. There are too many red flags that it all adds up. The meat excuses is a joke and surely the burden of proof should be on Canelo's team to prove his innocence rather than just take his word that it was bad beef?

He said he doesn't eat red meat during camp. Only fish and chicken.

According to an expert that spoke on the Contador case for Clenbuterol to show up in urine as it did with Canelo you'd almost have to be eating it in large amounts and from the liver of the beef and even then the chances of it showing up are "1%".

The fight was agreed and basically set around late December/early January yet they prolonged officially announcing it. Perhaps (let's face it probably) so that they could already be cycling well before the testing begins. Victor Conte said PED's do more for you when they are out of your system when citing the benefits of cycling.

If I am Canelo and I want to prove that I am clean I would go out of my way to prove it and starting with hair samples since that would last six months. But of course he knows what he's been taking and let's face it has likely been cheating for a while now. Probably why he was refusing VADA testing against Smith at 154 and why he didn't want to fight for the WBC belt (hence not enroll in their program).
 
Why the feck would you cheat? You're just lying to yourself essentially.
 
Was thinking a bit more about Wilder vs. Joshua. One weapon Joshua has shown he has up close is that uppercut. Could be a huge tool vs a fighter who cannot fight on the inside.

The more I think about it, it's a really fascinating contest on numerous levels. Incredibly hard to call.
 
Fortitude said:
Was thinking a bit more about Wilder vs. Joshua. One weapon Joshua has shown he has up close is that uppercut. Could be a huge tool vs a fighter who cannot fight on the inside.

The more I think about it, it's a really fascinating contest on numerous levels. Incredibly hard to call.
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Problem for Joshua is that he could be up every round, but Wilder just needs one shit to end the fight. Still, I back Joshua to win ,it's not like he can't punch either!
 
RedFish said:
Problem for Joshua is that he could be up every round, but Wilder just needs one shit to end the fight. Still, I back Joshua to win ,it's not like he can't punch either!
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Agreed. It's a worse stylistic matchup for Joshua than Wilder, but you'd hope his training camp at least readies him for the weirdest bout he'll probably be involved in as a champion.
 
Fortitude said:
Was thinking a bit more about Wilder vs. Joshua. One weapon Joshua has shown he has up close is that uppercut. Could be a huge tool vs a fighter who cannot fight on the inside.

The more I think about it, it's a really fascinating contest on numerous levels. Incredibly hard to call.
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Joshua and Wilder have similar power. Wilder stronger with the right, Joshua has more tools. Everything else Joshua does much better. I am not saying this for hyperbole or because I have a dislike for Wilder but he has the worst technique, Boxing IQ and footwork of any world champion level boxer I can ever remember seeing. An eraser carries more difference at Heavyweight. If he was a Welterweight he'd already be a journeyman with a record of around 10-30.

Joshua is stronger than him and can fight a little inside which means if it gets in close he has a big edge. Joshua is a far more skilled boxer so at range and mid range he'll dominate the whole time unless he gets cracked hard. I don't count Wilder out because AJ is a sucker for a right hand, he gasses out and his chin can be reached and hurt BUT my firm pick is Joshua eats him alive in a one-sided mismatch. He'll get there first due to technique and have Wilder falling over himself trying to avoid his power or an inside fight. I expect Joshua to show composure and not take unnecessary risks following up for the KO and the KO will just happen naturally and probably within 4 rounds.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
Joshua and Wilder have similar power. Wilder stronger with the right, Joshua has more tools. Everything else Joshua does much better. I am not saying this for hyperbole or because I have a dislike for Wilder but he has the worst technique, Boxing IQ and footwork of any world champion level boxer I can ever remember seeing. An eraser carries more difference at Heavyweight. If he was a Welterweight he'd already be a journeyman with a record of around 10-30.

Joshua is stronger than him and can fight a little inside which means if it gets in close he has a big edge. Joshua is a far more skilled boxer so at range and mid range he'll dominate the whole time unless he gets cracked hard. I don't count Wilder out because AJ is a sucker for a right hand, he gasses out and his chin can be reached and hurt BUT my firm pick is Joshua eats him alive in a one-sided mismatch. He'll get there first due to technique and have Wilder falling over himself trying to avoid his power or an inside fight. I expect Joshua to show composure and not take unnecessary risks following up for the KO and the KO will just happen naturally and probably within 4 rounds.
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I think everyone agrees that Joshua has the broader skillset, but that all generally gets chucked out the window once Wilder lands his right.
 
RedFish said:
Problem for Joshua is that he could be up every round, but Wilder just needs one shit to end the fight. Still, I back Joshua to win ,it's not like he can't punch either!
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Wilder has more power but let’s be honest, whoever lands the first proper shot on the chin is gonna win the fight.
 
Really dont agree that AJ is to good for Wilder. AJ is an updated Frank Bruno far to muscled which makes him slow and stiff.

Theres no way he could stop Wilder landing the big punches on him .

I cant stand Fury he is so boring but he would toy with AJ too .
 
lsd said:
Really dont agree that AJ is to good for Wilder. AJ is an updated Frank Bruno far to muscled which makes him slow and stiff.

Theres no way he could stop Wilder landing the big punches on him .

I cant stand Fury he is so boring but he would toy with AJ too .
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The Fury that showed up against Klitschko definitely would. He would be hard for either Wilder or AJ to beat, given the reach and jab advantages. That said, I'm not confident that Fury will ever exist again after all this time off.
 
Did you guys watch 'The Gloves are off' for the Joshua - Parker fight? AJ seemed a bit rattled but he always does i guess in these situations. Parker on the other hand seemed jovial and relaxed. His confidence seems to be right up there. AJ has everything going for him in terms of reach, power, maybe even skill but you never know with Parker. Apparently he's been boxing since he was 4 ! It's going to be a good fight, and i think Parker could take AJ 12 rounds. If he doesn't get the KO no way he's winning this one.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
If I am Canelo and I want to prove that I am clean I would go out of my way to prove it and starting with hair samples since that would last six months. But of course he knows what he's been taking and let's face it has likely been cheating for a while now. Probably why he was refusing VADA testing against Smith at 154 and why he didn't want to fight for the WBC belt (hence not enroll in their program).
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Thank you for the detailed post, man ! Quite enlightening and definitely shows the dark side of Canelo . I don't mean to turn this into a Canelo bashing thread but you gotta read this article:

https://deadspin.com/who-is-saul-ca...ium=sharefromsite&utm_source=Deadspin_twitter
 
Verbalkint said:
Did you guys watch 'The Gloves are off' for the Joshua - Parker fight? AJ seemed a bit rattled but he always does i guess in these situations. Parker on the other hand seemed jovial and relaxed. His confidence seems to be right up there. AJ has everything going for him in terms of reach, power, maybe even skill but you never know with Parker. Apparently he's been boxing since he was 4 ! It's going to be a good fight, and i think Parker could take AJ 12 rounds. If he doesn't get the KO no way he's winning this one.
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I think AJ was encouraged to act like that to boost numbers of PPV. Wilder/Fury would sell themselves, Wlad is the biggest name in heavyweight for years so that fight sold itself. I think people expect AJ to flatten Parker and so there was a bit of trash talk to hype it up a bit. AJ last fight was shite really and people are probably thinking this will be the same, easy way to get some numbers is to make it more personal.
 
Verbalkint said:
Thank you for the detailed post, man ! Quite enlightening and definitely shows the dark side of Canelo . I don't mean to turn this into a Canelo bashing thread but you gotta read this article:

https://deadspin.com/who-is-saul-ca...ium=sharefromsite&utm_source=Deadspin_twitter
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He's an excellent fighter but has always divided opinion. Most of the folks I watch Boxing with are Mexican and some of them flat out don't like Canelo. Most prefer GGG. He's actually a better fighter than I thought he'd turn out to be but I remember that incident in the article when Marquez correctly pointed out that the WBC are being favorable to him. He was ranked #1 in a division he'd beaten no top contenders in and they put him in with Matthew Hatton (despite Hatton not even fighting at the division) and Canelo didn't make weight and they still sanctioned it for the title. Marquez was stating facts and being fair as he always is when you see him talk Boxing but Canelo got all pissy with him. Canelo has always been cocky with his whole "my era" and has definitely being given privileges other fighters wouldn't be given and now to find out he's a cheater and they have his back too is going to make it hard for him to truly win the people over.

I think he's not just not as good as the likes of Chavez, Marquez, Sanchez, Olivares, Barrera, Morales, Lopez, Zarate, Saldivar, Canto etc; and will never be as good. He'll certainly never be beloved those guys were. I think he's an excellent fighter though but I don't think he'll be recognized as a legend that's loved by his public. Much like Miguel Cotto in Puerto Rico. People would think you are nuts if you put him in the same breath as Trinidad, Gomez, Ortiz, Benitez etc;
 
Verbalkint said:
Did you guys watch 'The Gloves are off' for the Joshua - Parker fight? AJ seemed a bit rattled but he always does i guess in these situations. Parker on the other hand seemed jovial and relaxed. His confidence seems to be right up there. AJ has everything going for him in terms of reach, power, maybe even skill but you never know with Parker. Apparently he's been boxing since he was 4 ! It's going to be a good fight, and i think Parker could take AJ 12 rounds. If he doesn't get the KO no way he's winning this one.
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Can't see AJ not getting this done with a KO inside 6-8 rounds.
 
Parker will not be easy, he is tough and durable but doesn't carry devastating power. I think AJ coming in lighter has drastically improved his chances, as I thought it would go to points before I saw him appear to cut his weight down. Now I think it will be a late stoppage for AJ in the championship rounds.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
KOs him within 4 rounds. Parker is a bum, the least impressive HW champion in a long time and there have been many candidates.
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Inter Yer Nan said:
He's an excellent fighter but has always divided opinion. Most of the folks I watch Boxing with are Mexican and some of them flat out don't like Canelo. Most prefer GGG. He's actually a better fighter than I thought he'd turn out to be but I remember that incident in the article when Marquez correctly pointed out that the WBC are being favorable to him. He was ranked #1 in a division he'd beaten no top contenders in and they put him in with Matthew Hatton (despite Hatton not even fighting at the division) and Canelo didn't make weight and they still sanctioned it for the title. Marquez was stating facts and being fair as he always is when you see him talk Boxing but Canelo got all pissy with him. Canelo has always been cocky with his whole "my era" and has definitely being given privileges other fighters wouldn't be given and now to find out he's a cheater and they have his back too is going to make it hard for him to truly win the people over.

I think he's not just not as good as the likes of Chavez, Marquez, Sanchez, Olivares, Barrera, Morales, Lopez, Zarate, Saldivar, Canto etc; and will never be as good. He'll certainly never be beloved those guys were. I think he's an excellent fighter though but I don't think he'll be recognized as a legend that's loved by his public. Much like Miguel Cotto in Puerto Rico. People would think you are nuts if you put him in the same breath as Trinidad, Gomez, Ortiz, Benitez etc;
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The guy managed to eek out a majority decision loss to Floyd. If that isn't favouritism I don't know what is. I mean I'm not coming down on Floyd at all here but you must have some massive pull with the judges to achieve that in a fight you clearly lost.

I think Canelo is a highly skilled boxer but agree he isn't as many of those you listed. I really hope GGG can knock him out this time but I wouldn't count on it. At the very least to win on points GGG is going to have to make it a seriously one sided fight.
 
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