The RedCafe Boxing Thread

He won't guys. Ward is just too good a boxer and too smart a fighter. He'll make the right adjustments en route to a clear UD imho

Agree Kovalev won the first fight but the decisiom wasn't a scandal. Fight was close. Now if instead of judging individual rounds we judge the whole fight, no way Kovalev would have lost. Ward was hurt, kovalev was not

Ortiz would pulverize Wilder, but i reckon he'd pulverize AJ too
 
giorno said:
He won't guys. Ward is just too good a boxer and too smart a fighter. He'll make the right adjustments en route to a clear UD imho

Agree Kovalev won the first fight but the decisiom wasn't a scandal. Fight was close. Now if instead of judging individual rounds we judge the whole fight, no way Kovalev would have lost. Ward was hurt, kovalev was not

Ortiz would pulverize Wilder, but i reckon he'd pulverize AJ too
Click to expand...

One day people might stop placing Ward on this pedestal without him having earned it first. The crap the ringside commentators came up with because it was Ward beggars belief. Kovalev is criminally underrated as a boxer and for me is one of the top 3 or 4 pound for pound fighters along with Lomachenko, Chocolatito(despite his last loss), GGG. His biggest opponent arguably will be the selection of judges yet again IMO (Cathy Duva's request for one non-US judge was turned down).
 
Last edited:
RedFish said:
One day people might stop placing Ward on this pedestal without him having earned it first. The crap the ringside commentators came up with because it was Ward beggars belief. Kovalev is criminally underrated as a boxer and for me is one of the top 3 or 4 pound for pound fighters along with Lomachenko, Chocalito (despite his last loss), GGG. His biggest opponent arguably will be the selection of judges yet again IMO (Cathy Duva's request for one non-US judge was turned down).
Click to expand...

Agreed. It used to be called Danny Garcia syndrome.
 
Ward is good, but if he was from Mexico, or some part of Eastern Europe he wouldn't get near the same praise. He's lucky to have fought almost exclusively in California and in Vegas against a Russian who's not all that marketable. He bends the rules constantly and if he was somebody else he wouldn't get away with the clinch fests and headbutt clinics he has put on. A more neutral referee performance changes the Kessler fight dramatically and even the Bika fight he could have seen a DQ.

Ward is has good Boxing skills, but nothing extraordinary. He is a one handed fighter and his offense consists of clinching and making it an inside dog fight where rules aren't followed properly.

Lomachenko, Crawford, GGG, Chocolatito, Kovalev all perform at a higher more legal level. All considerably more entertaining too.
 
RedFish said:
One day people might stop placing Ward on this pedestal without him having earned it first. The crap the ringside commentators came up with because it was Ward beggars belief. Kovalev is criminally underrated as a boxer and for me is one of the top 3 or 4 pound for pound fighters along with Lomachenko, Chocolatito(despite his last loss), GGG. His biggest opponent arguably will be the selection of judges yet again IMO (Cathy Duva's request for one non-US judge was turned down).
Click to expand...
Not sure what coverage you were watching, but if it was HBO, Kovalev is there guy, that's the guy they'd be pushing, and I believe Lederman had him up on his scorecard.

I had Ward winning the first fight 114-113 (and I reckon I'm a great scorer) but I believe 114-113 and 115-112 for Kovalev are good scorecards too, just not the right one (in my eyes). Ward made the right adjustments in the second half of the fight and I expect him to win wider in the rematch.

I will say that Kovalev was the first person to make Ward look ordinary though. Maybe that's a bit harsh - not so special is maybe more accurate. I think one of the big reasons why is purely because Kovalev is so much bigger than him, it was a super middleweight against a big light heavyweight.

Can't wait for Canelo - Jr, it's such a perfect styles match. The big come forward fighter against the compact counter-puncher, both throw with power and have granite chins. Going to be another great one this Saturday.
 
Kazi said:
Not sure what coverage you were watching, but if it was HBO, Kovalev is there guy, that's the guy they'd be pushing, and I believe Lederman had him up on his scorecard.

I had Ward winning the first fight 114-113 (and I reckon I'm a great scorer) but I believe 114-113 and 115-112 for Kovalev are good scorecards too, just not the right one (in my eyes). Ward made the right adjustments in the second half of the fight and I expect him to win wider in the rematch.

I will say that Kovalev was the first person to make Ward look ordinary though. Maybe that's a bit harsh - not so special is maybe more accurate. I think one of the big reasons why is purely because Kovalev is so much bigger than him, it was a super middleweight against a big light heavyweight.

Can't wait for Canelo - Jr, it's such a perfect styles match. The big come forward fighter against the compact counter-puncher, both throw with power and have granite chins. Going to be another great one this Saturday.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about Sky's commentary. It was a shambles - Malignaggi in particular, who is known and mocked for the biased slant to his commentary. He's a fan boy not a pundit. I remember coming across a comment from some forum that he is biased to the point of dishonesty - I don't think that is entirely wrong.

I stand by my view that the scorecards were bullshit. There are plenty of close fights, and most I can accept a decision one way or the other but Ward - Kovalev totally pissed me off, and in my mind there is no way he won, not even close. How the heck did 1 judge award 7 straight rounds to Ward and the other two gave Ward the last 6 rounds!!! Bollocks :lol:

CxsyWeSUUAArZKn.jpg


Michael Montero, who is as good a boxing analyst I know talks extensively about this whole shit-fest. Worth a look.

Anyway, feck it. I can't wait for the rematch.:)








 
Last edited:
I'm trying to work out what's more stupid out of:

1. People hating on Eddie Hearn even though the job he has done is the reason that most people were in this thread.

2. People trying to tarnish Fury's performance even though he completely outboxed WK who could hardly lay a glove him.

Don't quit your dayjob, lads. :)
 
NextSeason said:
I'm trying to work out what's more stupid out of:

1. People hating on Eddie Hearn even though the job he has done is the reason that most people were in this thread.

2. People trying to tarnish Fury's performance even though he completely outboxed WK who could hardly lay a glove him.

Don't quit your dayjob, lads. :)
Click to expand...


People can dislike Eddie Hearn but also like boxing. The 2 aren't mutually exclusive. I don't know Hearn personally and I've never known him do any horrible act or anything so don't dislike him but he can come across as a bit of a bellend.

I wouldn't discredit Fury's performance but again people are entitled to their opinion and it is a fair comment to say Wlad looked better in the Joshua fight than he did vs. Fury, it doesn't discredit Fury it's still a great win.

People are entitled to opinions, just cos they don't agree with yours doesn't make them "Stupid."

I doubt many people will quit their day jobs either don't worry. I don't think there's an alternative job for them to quit for there isn't much of a demand in jobs for discussing Eddie Hearn and a Tyson Fury boxing match that happened 18 months ago unfortunately.
 
Oggmonster said:
People can dislike Eddie Hearn but also like boxing. The 2 aren't mutually exclusive. I don't know Hearn personally and I've never known him do any horrible act or anything so don't dislike him but he can come across as a bit of a bellend.

I wouldn't discredit Fury's performance but again people are entitled to their opinion and it is a fair comment to say Wlad looked better in the Joshua fight than he did vs. Fury, it doesn't discredit Fury it's still a great win.

People are entitled to opinions, just cos they don't agree with yours doesn't make them "Stupid."

I doubt many people will quit their day jobs either don't worry. I don't think there's an alternative job for them to quit for there isn't much of a demand in jobs for discussing Eddie Hearn and a Tyson Fury boxing match that happened 18 months ago unfortunately.
Click to expand...

I just find it ironic scrolling through 20 odd pages of reaction to a great fight with people digging out Hearn - the guy who put it on and has lifted UK boxing onto everyone's lips again.

Wlad looked better, or AJ was open for shots, unlike Fury? Depends which way you look at it. There are people that have discredited Fury's win if you scroll back.

My 2 pence worth just as much as anyone's. Doesn't mean some people's can't be confused in logic.
 
NextSeason said:
I just find it ironic scrolling through 20 odd pages of reaction to a great fight with people digging out Hearn - the guy who put it on and has lifted UK boxing onto everyone's lips again.

Wlad looked better, or AJ was open for shots, unlike Fury? Depends which way you look at it. There are people that have discredited Fury's win if you scroll back.

My 2 pence worth just as much as anyone's. Doesn't mean some people's can't be confused in logic.
Click to expand...

It's different reading back with hindsight though. I did the same cos I was there so I didn't look at the thread at the time. Maybe Hearn was on TV saying something ridiculous at that time so someone commented on it and then a discussion got started on Hearn? When there's a fight on this topic does become a live discussion of the event so people being on camera may bring up a discussion about them and traditionally on a Matchroom card Hearn is on camera after every fight. To me it doesn't seem that far fetched people may speak about him. I don't dispute he's done a lot for British boxing I think he deserves huge credit and have always said it but I can see why people find him annoying or irritating and would comment on it during an event he is promoting.

There's also people that will discredit Joshua's win or any of Floyd's wins. Boxing is a game of opinions and people won't like certain boxers and won't give them credit. I don't think it's to much of an unfair statement to say the Wlad vs. Joshua looked far better than the way he fought vs. Fury but yeah styles do make fights. I like Fury and think he deserves credit for what he did as well but again in the heat of the moment immediately after the Joshua vs. Wlad fight (which was A LOT more entertaining to watch than Fury vs. Wlad) people may get carried away and excited, it happens.

Course it is, everyone is entitled to their opinion but when you query what's "more stupid" it is a bit rude and dismissive of others.
 
One Night Only said:
I see amir khan is talking shite again :lol:
Click to expand...

I'm past the point of caring really with Khan. He could of had a huge fight with Brook but talked himself out of it for a dream fight with Manny that was never happening. I'm sure there is 2 sides to the story and I used to defend him quite a bit but I'm bored of his talk now. I'll give him his due his fights are always entertaining to watch cos there's the huge risk he gets knocked out but I just can't be arsed listening to him anymore I think!
 
Oggmonster said:
I'm past the point of caring really with Khan. He could of had a huge fight with Brook but talked himself out of it for a dream fight with Manny that was never happening. I'm sure there is 2 sides to the story and I used to defend him quite a bit but I'm bored of his talk now. I'll give him his due his fights are always entertaining to watch cos there's the huge risk he gets knocked out but I just can't be arsed listening to him anymore I think!
Click to expand...

He bangs on like he is a great boxer up there with the greats. Yet he is bang average and gets knocked down a shit ton. I don't know how he gets any of these big fights. He should be fighting bums for a foot long from subway. No way should he be earning millions.

His record isn't as bad as I originally thought, only lost 4 times, I feel like everytime i watch him he gets outboxed though.
 
One Night Only said:
I see amir khan is talking shite again :lol:
Click to expand...

One Night Only said:
He bangs on like he is a great boxer up there with the greats. Yet he is bang average and gets knocked out a shit ton. I don't know how he gets any of these big fights. He should be fighting bums for a foot long from subway. No way should he be earning millions.
Click to expand...

:lol:

Pisses me off big time.. only decent fight he has ever been in was with Maidana. Kell Brook would wipe the floor with him and that is why he keeps dodging that fight.. a loss to Brook would spell the end of his career as one of the elite (not that he is but somehow he has hoodwinked most of the public that he is up there with the best in the world).
 
RedFish said:
I'm talking about Sky's commentary. It was a shambles - Malignaggi in particular, who is known and mocked for the biased slant to his commentary. He's a fan boy not a pundit. I remember coming across a comment from some forum that he is biased to the point of dishonesty - I don't think that is entirely wrong.

I stand by my view that the scorecards were bullshit. There are plenty of close fights, and most I can accept a decision one way or the other but Ward - Kovalev totally pissed me off, and in my mind there is no way he won, not even close. How the heck did 1 judge award 7 straight rounds to Ward and the other two gave Ward the last 6 rounds!!! Bollocks :lol:

CxsyWeSUUAArZKn.jpg


Michael Montero, who is as good a boxing analyst I know talks extensively about this whole shit-fest. Worth a look.

Anyway, feck it. I can't wait for the rematch.:)








Click to expand...

I was at the fight and had a row of Ward fans behind me even late one said "Why is Dre fighting like a lil bitch". At least in my section it seemed everyone knew it was Kovalev by a fair distance. Live I had it 117-110 and upon watching the replay I can't go closer than 8-4 in rounds. The official scoring of the 10th and 12th is a joke. Those were dominant rounds for Kovalev. Two judges giving Ward the 12th is too convenient in a 1 point fight. Glenn Trowbridge shouldn't be allowed to judge fights. He had Pacquaio 116-112 over Marquez in fight III and Rios over Abril. He's obviously either boozing on the job or just a biased cheating feck.
 
Man Utd vs Liverpool had 2.8m viewers, at a prime time in the UK, without the need to pay £20 on top. And going above 2 million viewers for football is quite the rarity for Sky,

You decide from that if you think these UK PPV figures of 1.5m for MannyPac at 4-6am and higher for AJ-Wlad are realistic? I'd be impressed if either got half a million genuine buys in this country. While Boxing is on a massive boom right now, I don't see why UK PPV numbers would be massively trumping even the biggest of American PPV fights now.

I'd say they are purposeful saying buyers when they clearly mean "guesstimated total viewers". Though I do genuinely believe this would of been the biggest fight for the UK, they've put themselves in a silly hole by now having to come out of thin air with these odd numbers to back it up.....like when they get to AJ-Fury....they'll be claiming like 3m just because they would of put themselves in that position, because they won't be able to back down and give the realistic figure of like 700k.....as while it's an insane number, everyone already thinks Bellew-Haye and AJ-Wlad did over a million...
 
Ward
GGG
Kovelev
Gonzalez
Canelo
Lomachenko

Top 6 p4p imo. Ward is severely underrated here.
 
FC Ronaldo said:
At work but heard he outpointed a punching bag and couldn't get close to a finish. About right?
Click to expand...

Pretty much. As the Sky commentator said, it was essentially a sparring session.
 
Shame. Wanted him to annihilate someone and get the AJ matchup early because I reckon AJ dominates him with relative ease. Looks like he's at least 3 fights away then at that level.
 
Poor fight. Parker isn't at the level required to beat AJ. He's still a couple of years away at least.
It would have been interesting to see Hughie fight him if he didn't get injured. Parker should be fighting Whyte, Pulev and Hughie if he can, before thinking about fighting the likes of AJ and Wilder.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
Ward
GGG
Kovelev
Gonzalez
Canelo
Lomachenko

Top 6 p4p imo. Ward is severely underrated here.
Click to expand...
I'd go
Lomachenko
Crawford
Kovalev
GGG
Chocolatito
Mikey Garcia

Ward for me apart from get a gift decision he really hasn't done anything worth talking about since 2011. I didn't really rate the Dawson win as Dawson all but cut body parts off to get down to an unfair weight.
 
Crawford is a guy I feel gets underrated at least here in America (not sure about the Boxing folk over there) which is surprising as he's American and usually fun to watch. He has a good fight in two weeks against Felix Diaz, a good fighter he deserved a W over Lamont Peterson and Olympic Gold Medalist.
 
Would/could a heavyweight ever be a P4P best in your opinion? Why/why not?

What time is ring walk tonight?
 
Is there any chance Canelo losing tonight?
 
I haven't seen the Parker fight, just how bad was he?
 
How is Ward not making your guys' P4P list - he just beat Kovalev! And even if you don't think he did, it was still a very close fight against a top 5 P4P fighter who is a lot bigger than him. Also, Ward's skills are clearly elite and he's probably got the best resume out of all active boxers outside of Manny.

Bubz27 said:
Would/could a heavyweight ever be a P4P best in your opinion? Why/why not?
Click to expand...
I had Wlad at #1 after Floyd retired and until he lost to Fury.

MaxiPaxi said:
Is there any chance Canelo losing tonight?
Click to expand...
No, Canelo is a monster. But Jr has his father's chin so it should still be a great fight.
 
Thanks guys. Probably stay up for that one.
 
Hughie Fury is still manadatory for Parker and they have a month to agree terms before it goes to purse bids, despite all the warranted stick the Furys get I don't think Hughie was dishonest about his injury, he seems a grounded character.

My P4P top 6 FWIW (excluding Pacquiao)

Ward
Thurman
GGG
Chocolatito
Canelo
Linares


Lomachenko is up there definitely but based solely on his professional record I don't think he's done enough.
 
Flamingo Purple said:
Hughie Fury is still manadatory for Parker and they have a month to agree terms before it goes to purse bids, despite all the warranted stick the Furys get I don't think Hughie was dishonest about his injury, he seems a grounded character.

My P4P top 6 FWIW (excluding Pacquiao)

Ward
Thurman
GGG
Chocolatito
Canelo
Linares


Lomachenko is up there definitely but based solely on his professional record I don't think he's done enough.
Click to expand...

Linares is a good shout. Beautiful boxer. Would destroy Luke Campbell if that fight gets made. Loma is a one off, he came into the pro ranks technically a complete boxer and that Salido loss was just adjustment to the Pro ranks - he'd play with him in a rematch. I get that he needs more fights on his rec but he's comfortably a level above the rest for me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.