Young Tyson fought bums. Probably he would have defeated a 41 years old Klitschko, but both Klitschko brothers would have handled him a few years ago.
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I think it would be another close to call fight
People see limitations in Joshua, part because they are weakness, and part because he's not been tested by opposition. His head movement at times isn't great. It will be a big big test for Joshua against Fury, same as it was with WK, it's the first time he's facing boxers of quality that are physically similar (or in Fury case taller). Earlier opponents haven't been able to get close enough to do any real damage, or work off a jab properly. WK and Fury both do this, and both will be able to exploit AJ weaknesses
Last night will have been a huge learning curve for Joshua, and would expect him to be better if rematch with WK or a fight against Fury or Wilder, he would be tested as all three are too high a standard not to test him, same way that for them fighting AJ would be a huge test and challenge for them
Nah. He'd have killed them both. Too fast, too agile and too powerful. The Tyson that came back from prison lost those attributes...but a young Tyson was a freak of nature.
He got whupped by a bum before he went to prison.
He never would have beaten Vitali IMO. Vitali was too big, too mean, iron chinned and dropped nuclear bombs with every shot.
Yep. But he was in awful physical and mental condition. Too much going on in his life. Anyway imagine Vitali vs Bowe. Was crying shame Bowe and Lewis always avoided each other in that era.
Doubt it. He has defeated only bums, way past it greats, or light heavyweight, and his manager was giving him only bums to defeat. Still, he got defeated by a bum and when he returned, Holyfield defeated him easily. He was way his best against Lewis, but Lewis handled him like a kindergarden kid.
Klitschkos would have been too large and too smart for him, while also being able to put him at floor any moment. Obviously, Tyson could have KO any boxer on his days, but I think that it would have been a frustrating night for Tyson and eventually he would have ended on the floor.
As far as I remember, only Bowe avoided Lewis. Lewis wanted that fight. Lewis wanted to fight everyone, Bowe, Holyfield, Tyson, Klitschko, didn't matter. Easily the best heavyweight since at least Larry Holmes.
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Yeah Joshua has his flaws, but Fury is too inconsistent and his form/physical state is a big question mark along with all the doping associated with his name as well. I'm not sure Fury could get back at the match against Wlad level or generally be at top form for a match against AJ.
There's 4 or so of Eubank's fights were fairly amazing.
Benn II is it, in particular.
And a couple of his late career losses - astounding bottle & brave as a lion.
Benn II is it, in particular.
And a couple of his late career losses - astounding bottle & brave as a lion.
What's the PED testing like in boxing nowadays? Have there been any high profile fighters caught recently?
I think they have the boxers pee in a cup 3 months before the fight and on the night of the fight but I could be wrong.
I remember him having most trouble with tall fighters who had a good standing reach. I doubt either Klitschko would have been easy for him.
Even at his Cus D'amato infused peak, Tyson would have had a terrible time of it verses Vitali. Bowe, Lewis and Vitali would have cut Tyson's legacy short as all of them were massive, fearless heavyweights who didn't back down, threw bombs and got better the longer a fight went on. Tyson, as brilliant as he was, relied on fear and intimidation, had no jab and his effectiveness waned the longer a fight went on.
Holyfield fought a lesser version of Tyson, but that blueprint, in the hands of even bigger fighters (natural HW's, not someone who came up from CW), spells trouble for someone so short who didn't actually have godly one-punch power (Tyson's combinations were what made him so deadly) nor means to fight on the outside - you can't maul men 50lb+ heavier than you who have 7 inches in height as well as power and more heart than you. Always got the impression that Vitali would rather die in the ring than give up or quit, same as Holyfield, and that's something Tyson never had - in adversity he was more likely to crumple.
I think Tyson vs Wlad goes Tyson's way for the reason that I reckon he could get inside Wlad's guard early doors and put in the work that ends the fight.
re. Fury. I do hope his stamina, as well as his last performance, did not come about by way of PED's. That would be thoroughly disappointing.
Holyfield fought a lesser version of Tyson, but that blueprint, in the hands of even bigger fighters (natural HW's, not someone who came up from CW), spells trouble for someone so short who didn't actually have godly one-punch power (Tyson's combinations were what made him so deadly) nor means to fight on the outside - you can't maul men 50lb+ heavier than you who have 7 inches in height as well as power and more heart than you. Always got the impression that Vitali would rather die in the ring than give up or quit, same as Holyfield, and that's something Tyson never had - in adversity he was more likely to crumple.
I think Tyson vs Wlad goes Tyson's way for the reason that I reckon he could get inside Wlad's guard early doors and put in the work that ends the fight.
re. Fury. I do hope his stamina, as well as his last performance, did not come about by way of PED's. That would be thoroughly disappointing.
Some details on Joshua's drug testing.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/boxing/2...-for-zero-tolerance-and-life-bans-for-boxing/
He is on this program for out of competition testing
http://ukad.org.uk/education/athletes/elite/whereabouts/
That is at the insistence of UK bodies, around the world doping control in boxing varies. In the US Mayweather famously insisted on doping control in the run up to fights as a PR move against Pacquiao, without out of competition testing it is meaningless though, well advised dopers can still get away with it though as many Olympic athletes get away with doping throughout their career despite heavy year round testing.
Quite a few high profile boxers have failed dope tests recently the highest profile being Tyson Fury along with his cousin Hughie, it was reported in the papers that their defence will be that they consume a wild boar, including offal, every week and so tested for steroids through contaminated meat!
Felix Sturm, Alexander Povetkin and Lucas Browne have also been caught recently.
Yeah with Povetkin is very interesting story. He tested positive for meldonium and explained he took it before it was banned in 2016. On another test afterwards it returned negative, but that cost him the fight against Wilder. Then at the end of the year he tested positive for muscle building osterine before the Stevern match. Safe to say he has been taking something over the years and they were looking for substitutes.
Drug testing in boxing is a joke. If you how the right team behind you, you'll never get caught.
What's the medias obsession with how much Joshua is earning?
Everywhere you seem to read they mention how he's looking for a new house. There's even article about him paying his laundry bill.
Everywhere you seem to read they mention how he's looking for a new house. There's even article about him paying his laundry bill.
Hearn's push to make Heavyweight boxing seem like it's back as big as it ever was.
I think most people enjoyed the fight immensely but it was a 27 year old against a 41 year old - and the 41yr old almost won ffs. Imagine if Joshua had lost, it would just kill the illusion of the rebirth of boxing with Sky.
Great analysis of the fight here (including clips again).
Although he's 41 he was in fantastic shape for this fight, he's taken it really seriously. Compared to the fight with fury he came in out of shape and probably thought he would win with 1 arm behind his back, he never took him seriously.
Oh absolutely - he was in fantastic shape. Just a shame there don't seem to be many others like him coming through. I don't follow boxing religiously but it seems to me the only sport where the general physical shape of competitors has declined over time (you look back at highlights of guys like Holyfield or Tyson and they all seem ridiculously fit and powerful) whereas AJ stands out from his crop because he is in good shape.
Finally just recovered from the weekend! First was a great event, whatever people think of Wlad or Joshua to be in there at the time it's one of the best events I've been to the atmosphere was brilliant and everyone was buzzing at the end of it. It was a huge fight.
Re Joshua I don't think he'll ever give him the credit that he deserves if they don't like him now. I always said on here as soon as he became champion he had to fight big names whether he was ready or not and Wlad was the biggest available name and he won and won in exciting fashion. There's nothing wrong with disliking the guy but to me it seems odd to selectively criticise all his wins. People were doing it before the fight to. It's a fair comment to say Wlad is old but part of it you'd think he'd never been any good. Mayweather was significantly older than most his opponents at points but he still won easily. Wlad has pretty much dispatched all his opponents over 10 years and not taken much damage doing so. He was hardly some bum.
As for his next fight for me it has to be Fury. I don't buy this Wilder fight I think people are massively overhyping his value in the division. He fights in his home town every fight cos no one is that arsed outside of there. Joshua vs. Fury easily sells out Wembley. I don't know if people will be hugely excited if it was Joshua vs. Wilder to be honest. Hearn will surely make the fight that makes him the most money and that is Fury. Fury on form is a much better fighter than Wilder as well, I'm surprised so many people on here right Wilder. All he has is a knockout punch, his technique is absolutely terrible and he's struggled against opponents the likes of Joshua would put to sleep within a couple of rounds.
Re Joshua I don't think he'll ever give him the credit that he deserves if they don't like him now. I always said on here as soon as he became champion he had to fight big names whether he was ready or not and Wlad was the biggest available name and he won and won in exciting fashion. There's nothing wrong with disliking the guy but to me it seems odd to selectively criticise all his wins. People were doing it before the fight to. It's a fair comment to say Wlad is old but part of it you'd think he'd never been any good. Mayweather was significantly older than most his opponents at points but he still won easily. Wlad has pretty much dispatched all his opponents over 10 years and not taken much damage doing so. He was hardly some bum.
As for his next fight for me it has to be Fury. I don't buy this Wilder fight I think people are massively overhyping his value in the division. He fights in his home town every fight cos no one is that arsed outside of there. Joshua vs. Fury easily sells out Wembley. I don't know if people will be hugely excited if it was Joshua vs. Wilder to be honest. Hearn will surely make the fight that makes him the most money and that is Fury. Fury on form is a much better fighter than Wilder as well, I'm surprised so many people on here right Wilder. All he has is a knockout punch, his technique is absolutely terrible and he's struggled against opponents the likes of Joshua would put to sleep within a couple of rounds.
Only Tyson Fury from the champions isn't in a good shape, all others are.
Joshua also has just the punch power, he still struggles with basics (like you know, moving you head while you fight).
Wilder isn't struggling with opponents Joshua would send to sleep. He has 37 KO in 38 matches, with only 6 of those matches going over 4 rounds.
Joshua-Fury is the bigger fight though and would easily sell Wembley. After that, Joshua-Wilder assuming that Joshua defeats Fury (which I think, he will).
He doesn't only have punching power. He has very fast hands for a heavyweight which is a big plus in boxing, especially when you hit as hard as he does.
Add to that his size, conditioning and gameness and you have one hell of a fighter.
His ability to handle the pressure of the limelight is incredible too. I don't recall seeing a more relaxed boxer in the face of so much pressure and expectation.
Both Tyson Fury and Wlad Klit declared that he was a future world champion after sparring with him once.
Personally I'd like to see Joshua take Parker apart. Then move on to Fury. Wilder can wait.
Parker has serious flaws and I don't think he'd last 6. Fury presents serious problems and I can't see Joshua winning unless he catches him properly and knocks him out.
Parker has serious flaws and I don't think he'd last 6. Fury presents serious problems and I can't see Joshua winning unless he catches him properly and knocks him out.
I think Joshua has more to his game to be honest. His strongest attribute is his power but he has improved massively in other aspects of his game. I've never really seen Wilder do that to be honest, Each to their own though...I might be bias cos I do prefer Joshua. Not to discredit Wilder but I just don't see him as that level of fighter. Equally I'd be surprised if he even fought Joshua to be honest he seems pretty content doing what he does now.
Granted it was somewhat of an exaggeration he has demolished plenty of opponents but of them 6 fights going over 4 rounds they were all his last 6 fights to me that suggests since he won the title he has had to step up a level (even though he is still fighting average fighters) and is now struggling since he won it. Out of them 6 I couldn't see Joshua struggling like Wilder did, Molina lasted 9 rounds with Wilder and 3 with Joshua for example, Wilder looked terrible vs. Szpilka but the fight is remembered for a brutal and brilliant knockout rather than his performance. Again credit to the guy for getting where he has it's just to me he looks so limited and his technique lacks everywhere, Joshua has flaws but he has improved his game massively.
Agree re last point. I do think Fury is his hardest fight if he's on top form but the Wlad fight is a brilliant achievement for him.
Agree with this really. The 3rd point is a huge one as well that people discredit. The pressure of 90k people coming to watch you and he didn't seem worried in the slightest, that wouldn't be the case for many fighters. Fury has that as welll when he went Germany he was loving bein there rather than terrified.
Yeah Parker is another name who will be thrown about, I'd rather see it than Wilder myself as well. Assuming Fury may need a tune up and that any fight like that would be this time next year then Joshua will need to stay active and would probably put another show on at the o2 before going back to Wembley.
Freddie Roach says that boxing is 90% psychological, 'heart', 'gameness' whatever you want to call it is massive.
I agree that Tyson Fury is top level in the regard too. I admire his confidence and character in that regard. He is definitely the hardest fight for Joshua because I think AJ's other big minus is his lack of movement with his feet, he is a plodder. I think that he will catch Tyson and knock him out over 12 rounds though.
I am a big AJ but I don't think he is above and beyond the best talent in this division. I think there will be ups and downs with him but some great fights.
I thought that Wilder is fighting Parker. But sure, from all 4 champions, Parker is easily the worst.
Wilder is meant to be fighting Stiverne again next not sure what is happening with that though.
Yeah I'm sure he'll lose eventually. I just think people have to give him the credit he deserves. To immediately discredit him the minute he loses etc is just a bit odd to be honest especially when was reading through it this morning. I agree with everyone Fury is a tough fight but the same people discrediting Joshua are praising Fury for beating the exact same guy (in worse fashion to probably.)
Not true. Joshua KO Klitschko, but Fury was far more dominant. Heck, Joshua was almost knocked out on the sixth rounds, and was losing by three points in one of the judge's score by the end of 10th round. Fury was totally dominant and won 8 or 9 rounds against Klitschko.
Now, I think that Klitschko was much better prepared against Joshua than Fury when Klitschko IMO was very complacent.
Don't get me wrong it could of been better but whenever I've seen the Fury vs. Wlad fight back they both look pretty shite. Fury had a good game plan but Wlad was awful in that fight. I'm not discrediting Fury it's a great win but I don't know if it's a great performance.
Styles do make fights though and Fury was an awful style for Wlad and definitely deserves credit. The Wlad that fought on Saturday was much better than the one who fought Fury though.
Both great wins and I wouldn't dispute that. For me Joshua's was just more impressive though. Again though each to their own and maybe I have a degree of bias from being there at the time and being caught up in the atmosphere of it all. I don't mind Fury, I quite like him and hope he does come back for the Joshua fight for what it's worth would love to see it as a fight and all the pre fight antics.
What happened with that Court decision where a landlady won a case that sky tried to get her prosecuted for using an alternative European satellite/ broadcaster at a fraction of the cost?
I know she won the case because of competition laws or something but don't know if other businyowners followed suit?
Anyone know the exact purse(s) for both fighters?
I've read £17.5m for both.
I've read £17.5m for both.
I've heard it was a 50/50 split but the figure has varied from starting at 15mil to high as 20 so 17.5 is probably about right if go in the middle of the 2 figures.
Cheers @Oggmonster.
Loved the fight, but I'm moving onto Brook v Spence...and the mother of all showdowns...Kovalev v SOG (
)
Loved the fight, but I'm moving onto Brook v Spence...and the mother of all showdowns...Kovalev v SOG (
)I'd like to see Joshua go for the other belts but Fury is the one which gets my juices going - prepared to wait for that one though.
I'm going to that fight. Went the last one too thought the decision was absurd. Hope Kovalev KO's him this time. Really can't stand Ward. Brook-Spence has been the best looking fight on the Boxing schedule for a while. I can't wait for that.Cheers @Oggmonster.
Loved the fight, but I'm moving onto Brook v Spence...and the mother of all showdowns...Kovalev v SOG (
Regarding Joshua; I think it's important to get Wilder ASAP. Wilder is pretty rubbish, just has a big punch.If he fights Stiverne again, Parker first and somebody else top 10 I think he loses before AJ can fight him. I'd rush to get to that one. Ortiz would also pulverize Wilder, but seems Wilder wants nothing to do with him either.
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Oh God I hope this happens. That decision last time out was bullsh*t. Said it at the time, and not changed my mind one bit. Hope Kovalev wipes Ward's face on the canvas.
Agree with @RedFish and @Inter Yer Nan. Hope Kovalev annihilates Ward.
I think he will. What can Ward do differently? Be more aggressive early? That's recipe for disaster. Last time out Kovalev controlled the early rounds which conventional wisdom says he would again. Sure, Ward won a few rounds after the 6th, but Kovalev outfought him in rounds 10 and 12 (hurt him with a body shot that made Ward run and throw no more punches - amazing ALL THREE judges gave him that round too).
Ward's only hope is if the ref allows clinching. If he doesn't then it will look similar to last time, Ward will be forced to be more aggressive and will get stopped. He doesn't have the legs or variety in his offense to win fair and square with Kovalev. Remember, he's a completely one handed fighter.
Ward's only hope is if the ref allows clinching. If he doesn't then it will look similar to last time, Ward will be forced to be more aggressive and will get stopped. He doesn't have the legs or variety in his offense to win fair and square with Kovalev. Remember, he's a completely one handed fighter.