The RedCafe Boxing Thread

@Oggmonster A quick point re: mental health. Your point about would you treat someone at work the same way if they were suffering. I think the point is they'd be less likely to be spouting the kind of sh1t that Fury did yesterday. Pretending to retire then claiming one upmanship on the media? That's not the behaviour of someone with what I would call a genuine mental illness. That's just stupidity. Maybe there's a deeper lying issue with him but I think he genuinely just doesn't give a toss about anything in life.
I'm not trying to downplay mental illness in any way but I need to see more evidence that this guy isn't just odd. And if he proves to have been using it as an excuse then that's even worse.
 
ChrisNelson said:
@Oggmonster A quick point re: mental health. Your point about would you treat someone at work the same way if they were suffering. I think the point is they'd be less likely to be spouting the kind of sh1t that Fury did yesterday. Pretending to retire then claiming one upmanship on the media? That's not the behaviour of someone with what I would call a genuine mental illness. That's just stupidity. Maybe there's a deeper lying issue with him but I think he genuinely just doesn't give a toss about anything in life.
I'm not trying to downplay mental illness in any way but I need to see more evidence that this guy isn't just odd. And if he proves to have been using it as an excuse then that's even worse.
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True, although people in the media spotlight equally face a lot of scrutiny cos of who they are. They can't escape the media etc. Granted Fury does himself no favours with Twitter in particular but you never know the frame of mind he is in.

You are correct a "normal" person with mental health issues probably wouldn't react the same but they don't get the same attention Fury would as well.

There could be nothing wrong with him but with how serious mental health is and how often it gets overlooked I think it's only fair to give the guy the benefit of the doubt slightly and take his or his promoters word for it that he genuinely is a man who struggles with a lot of demons.
 
Oggmonster said:
Ok they're definitely better than. Happy now? No doubt you'll find another way of twisting this.

Again, you're so naive to mental health which boxing boards, promoters, family members have suggested is the problem with Fury. Please do some research on it cos it's not only ignorant to him but to everyone else who would suffer from similar problems. I imagine if someone in your work was suffering from stuff like that and wouldn't turn up to work you'd be on the phone to them calling the a bum and a shit bag who's scared of any challenge? Massively ignorant to be honest.

Haye didn't "refuse" to fight him cos he was a no-one at all. What a stupid comment. Haye and Fury were meant to fight twice and he pulled out both times cos of injury, that's not refusal to fight, refusing to fight would mean the fight, the press conferences etc were never made. What I don't get is you contradict yourself (again) it's alright for Haye to do it for Fury but you've spent this whole time saying Fury did it to Wlad and how he's running scared. How come you don't accuse Haye of "running scared" bullshit you give Fury? Is this another assumption you've made based on no facts at all? Oh and Haye deserves to be nowhere near the title scene anyway, he's genuinely fought the biggest joke fights in boxing recently.

Your ignorance to most things, especially mental health issues, is astounding to be honest.
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I have a fair bit of experience when it comes to mental health issues mate, and for you to decide I don't would be your favourite word, you guessed it, an 'assumption'.

To be blunt I care very little about the deeper issues with Fury, someone who holds the attitude and views he does deserves no sympathy. I Don't need to argue this point too much though because @ChrisNelson has done a perfectly good job of destroying it. But if you must would you mind showing me what his fit note from the doc says?

Honestly, are you even aware of how ridiculously hypocritical you are? It's a little saddening to be honest. So Haye pulls out of two fights with Fury and Fury is right to deny him a shot for all he's done to him. Fury pulls out of two fights with Klitschko but that's perfectly fine!

Fury seems perfectly capable of calling everyone else a cnut yet you feel he deserves some kind of special sympathy. You've got an odd view of life.
 
ivaldo said:
I have a fair bit of experience when it comes to mental health issues mate, and for you to decide I don't would be your favourite word, you guessed it, an 'assumption'.

To be blunt I care very little about the deeper issues with Fury, someone who holds the attitude and views he does deserves no sympathy. I Don't need to argue this point too much though because @ChrisNelson has done a perfectly good job of destroying it. But if you must would you mind showing me what his fit note from the doc says?

Honestly, are you even aware of how ridiculously hypocritical you are? It's a little saddening to be honest. So Haye pulls out of two fights with Fury and Fury is right to deny him a shot for all he's done to him. Fury pulls out of two fights with Klitschko but that's perfectly fine!

Fury seems perfectly capable of calling everyone else a cnut yet you feel he deserves some kind of special sympathy. You've got an odd view of life.
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You have a fair bit of experience of mental illness but then don't care when someone seemingly suffers from it? Ok then.

How did he "destroy it" he offered a perfectly valid counter argument but as I said to him surely you give someone the benefit of the doubt? No I don't have a doctors note, do you?

How am I being hypocritical? Glad you find it "saddening" if you get saddened by a view on an internet forum I'd suggest getting out more by the way. You said Fury ran from Wlad, yet then you seemingly think it's fine for Haye to do the same to him? When did I say anything such as Fury is fine doing it? I said there's some things bigger than sport and injury/mental health is definitely one of them. Fury should be stripped of his titles. This whole discussion started with his calibre of opponent and you've found every little thing to cut the guy down. Boxing should move on from Fury for the time being as he is in no fit state to fight but that doesn't discredit his achievement, what he did is better than any other current heavyweight boxer.

When did I say it's fine Fury can call everyone a cnut? I said if the guy has mental health issues then it's more important than a sport and he shouldn't be called a shitbag or ducking from people.

This is tedious as feck to be honest, I'm done. Enjoy your views on Fury it's clearly not changing and it's obvious your dislike from the guy blinds your opinion as a boxing fan on anything to do with the sport. I never disputed people not liking him, dislike who you want. You discredited his achievement and it's obvious it's cos of who he is.
 
Oggmonster said:
You have a fair bit of experience of mental illness but then don't care when someone seemingly suffers from it? Ok then.

How did he "destroy it" he offered a perfectly valid counter argument but as I said to him surely you give someone the benefit of the doubt? No I don't have a doctors note, do you?

How am I being hypocritical? Glad you find it "saddening" if you get saddened by a view on an internet forum I'd suggest getting out more by the way. You said Fury ran from Wlad, yet then you seemingly think it's fine for Haye to do the same to him? When did I say anything such as Fury is fine doing it? I said there's some things bigger than sport and injury/mental health is definitely one of them. Fury should be stripped of his titles. This whole discussion started with his calibre of opponent and you've found every little thing to cut the guy down. Boxing should move on from Fury for the time being as he is in no fit state to fight but that doesn't discredit his achievement, what he did is better than any other current heavyweight boxer.

When did I say it's fine Fury can call everyone a cnut? I said if the guy has mental health issues then it's more important than a sport and he shouldn't be called a shitbag or ducking from people.

This is tedious as feck to be honest, I'm done. Enjoy your views on Fury it's clearly not changing and it's obvious your dislike from the guy blinds your opinion as a boxing fan on anything to do with the sport. I never disputed people not liking him, dislike who you want. You discredited his achievement and it's obvious it's cos of who he is.
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Although I'm certainly tempted to I'm not going to address your points, we'll agree to disagree.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
He has 17 fights, he has hardly been 'protected' if he doesn't take on a real challenge in the next two then I will start to agree with you.
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I'll wait and see who he fights in the next six months or so (like you), but his fights so far haven't been the most inspiring. He needs to move up a level.
 
ChrisNelson said:
@Oggmonster A quick point re: mental health. Your point about would you treat someone at work the same way if they were suffering. I think the point is they'd be less likely to be spouting the kind of sh1t that Fury did yesterday. Pretending to retire then claiming one upmanship on the media? That's not the behaviour of someone with what I would call a genuine mental illness. That's just stupidity. Maybe there's a deeper lying issue with him but I think he genuinely just doesn't give a toss about anything in life.
I'm not trying to downplay mental illness in any way but I need to see more evidence that this guy isn't just odd. And if he proves to have been using it as an excuse then that's even worse.
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How would you define a genuine mental illness? What behaviour would you associate with someone mentally ill? There's a fair bit of variety in mental illnesses and the behaviours that occur as a result of them.

New Rolling Stone interview/article on Fury today (http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/tyson-fury-boxing-champ-opens-up-about-drug-use-w443250). Worth a read, interesting quotes (particularly given the mental health topic being discussed).
 
I hope Fury gets the chance to do what he does best which is fighting in the ring, because that's about the only thing he had going for him. He's had a pretty rough time in the media, and definitely he hasn't helped himself there (or the people surrounding him). For his mental health going forward, I hope for his sake,there's more boxing to come from him. There's so mych to dislike about this man but I really don't take any pleasure in watching a man deteriorate, and deteriorate in the public eye no less.
 
Welsh Wonder said:
How would you define a genuine mental illness? What behaviour would you associate with someone mentally ill? There's a fair bit of variety in mental illnesses and the behaviours that occur as a result of them.

New Rolling Stone interview/article on Fury today (http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/tyson-fury-boxing-champ-opens-up-about-drug-use-w443250). Worth a read, interesting quotes (particularly given the mental health topic being discussed).
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It's not so much what's genuine and what's not - Fury clearly has problems - it's a case of scale. For example someone who is claiming they hear voices and is going out to harm people because that voice told them to, that is what I would class as a serious mental illness and one that requires urgent treatment.
On the other hand Tyson Fury sat with his phone attempting but failing miserably to make people believe he would really quit boxing, I would put that more in the attention seeking category. I think there's a big leap from the behaviour shown by him to someone who is actually 'insane' or whatever term you would like to use.
None of us are close enough to Fury to make a proper judgement, it's difficult to know from afar but that's how I see it.
 
ChrisNelson said:
It's not so much what's genuine and what's not - Fury clearly has problems - it's a case of scale. For example someone who is claiming they hear voices and is going out to harm people because that voice told them to, that is what I would class as a serious mental illness and one that requires urgent treatment.
On the other hand Tyson Fury sat with his phone attempting but failing miserably to make people believe he would really quit boxing, I would put that more in the attention seeking category. I think there's a big leap from the behaviour shown by him to someone who is actually 'insane' or whatever term you would like to use.
None of us are close enough to Fury to make a proper judgement, it's difficult to know from afar but that's how I see it.
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He's somebody who clearly has some issues in his life though. It's not even about him pretending to quit boxing (which is clearly him on an absolute wind up and part of his character). It's about him saying how he wants to die and that if he wasn't a Christian he'd have taken his own life by now. This is a guy suffering from serious depression and mental illness, really hoping he can overcome this for himself and his family.
 
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All of his more candid interviews over the years (with Kugan for instance) have hinted at mental illness.
 
ChrisNelson said:
So I guess this brings us to the crux of the matter - why has he been allowed to box until now, and will they stop him in future?
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I think because it's a money spinner. Boxing is one of the most morally corrupt sports (at an administrative level, I mean) in the world. You can get anything sanctioned if you want it bad enough. Frank Bruno wasn't long away from a return only recently, until public outcry.
 
I am not wanting to pass judgement on Fury's problems but what exactly are 'the media' supposed to have done to him?

He seems to like having his say and a public profile and has made really controversial remarks a number of times. You can't have it both ways.
 
Watched a bit of classic Naseem earlier for posterity's sake. Such an arrogant destruction of Robinson after moving up a weight.

 
Anyone watch burns last night? Good fight and much closer than scorecards had it I thought. I like the guy but he's surely the worst 3 weight champ ever?

Whyte looked dog shit love how Sky talk him up just cos he rocked Joshua and it will make him look worse if some shitter made him stumble.

Hearn on saying Joshua vs Wlad is the fight they want to make, can't see that ending well for Joshua really.
 
Oggmonster said:
Anyone watch burns last night? Good fight and much closer than scorecards had it I thought. I like the guy but he's surely the worst 3 weight champ ever?

Whyte looked dog shit love how Sky talk him up just cos he rocked Joshua and it will make him look worse if some shitter made him stumble.

Hearn on saying Joshua vs Wlad is the fight they want to make, can't see that ending well for Joshua really.
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Was AB ringside? He was supposed to be there with a view to making the Burns fight next, which would be fun.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Was AB ringside? He was supposed to be there with a view to making the Burns fight next, which would be fun.
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Nah they asked Hearn about him at the end and it is the fight they want next though (in Vegas.) According to Hearn though all Broner's social media seems to imply he was out on the piss all week instead of going to Glasgow....can't blame him really!
 
Oggmonster said:
He's a world champion though. They took the risk and put him in a title fight so he has to fight proper fighters. You can't go round fighting the Breazeale's of the world. I agree he's inexperienced but a world champion can't say "Yeah I'm not ready to fight him yet." You should be fighting the best!
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I agree with this although it's a really shallow division in terms of quality which is probably why he was propelled into a title fight 'early'.

I don't mind Joshua but i do think he's flawed. His leveller is obviously his power but i thought he fell short with his punches at times against Brezeale and i stand by thinking that a mover with a decent jab will cause him problems.

Regarding Fury, he's obviously taken it to extremes but i like the fact he can't be controlled - loose cannons in sport can be fun. I think he half has a point about how he's been treated by the media too whereas someone like Johsua can seemingly do no wrong despite various accounts of him not being such a nice bloke. Fury is the wrong type of Englishman for fans and media but he could fight - no doubt.
 


Eddie Hearn's just signed the 2nd best heavyweight in the world (#1 being Fury of course). Very interesting signing.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Weird to make it so public and drawn out though. 4 hours since he posted the first one. He is just the kind of bell end to make such a sick joke too. Sorry to be sceptical.
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True but it could be a cry for help......Like with Fury I hope the boxing community rally round....there really is nothing to lose and everything to gain.
 
LOL these British ring announcers are tapped, the call out the "on the judges scorecards has it as blah blah blah" in English accent then when the call the fighters names they go Lennon Jr/Buffer overdrive.
 
Claymore said:
LOL these British ring announcers are tapped, the call out the "on the judges scorecards has it as blah blah blah" in English accent then when the call the fighters names they go Lennon Jr/Buffer overdrive.
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British pundits, commentary, judges and refs are all embarrassing compared to our American counterparts.

Campbell Matthews starting now.

Bellew Flores next.
 
Claymore said:
Prince Naz, one of the best of all time IMO.
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Defo underrated and was a joy to watch.

Bellew's taste in tattoos is on a par with his general outfit choice.
 
Wow, real tear up- weird fight- fecking mental fight in fact!
 
:lol:The end of that fight. Hope Haye batters him tbh.
 
Kag said:
Fair play to Bellew. He's a bellend but he's nailed Haye for what he is.
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Apart from Haye will flatten Bellew.

Bellew just trying to sell a big pay day, that said v good performance by Bellew.
 
Was weird when BJ just stopped, claiming a low blow and Bellew steamed in:lol:Not sure I've ever seen anything like that before.
 
Haye beats Browne for the WBA belt in December, demolishes Bellew in February/March then spends 12 rounds running around against Joshua in summer and retires again with an obscene amount of money to show for a bitterly disappointing 18 month comeback.
 
Kag said:
Fair play to Bellew. He's a bellend but he's nailed Haye for what he is.
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Not really, Haye had over 3 years out injured, he's entitled to take 3 easier fights to comeback before going strong into it, he's now talking about big fights. Haye's not conned the public over anything, he sold out O2 arene because the people all find him exciting to watch.

Bellew has been garbage in all but his last two fights. Bellew needs Haye, Haye don't need Bellew and he know's it. Strange though because I think he'd get beaten up really badly if he got in the ring with David Haye, real bad. Was funny to watch his reaction though no doubt.
 
Claymore said:
Not really, Haye had over 3 years out injured, he's entitled to take 3 easier fights to comeback before going strong into it, he's now talking about big fights. Haye's not conned the public over anything, he sold out O2 arene because the people all find him exciting to watch.

Bellew has been garbage in all but his last two fights. Bellew needs Haye, Haye don't need Bellew and he know's it. Strange though because I think he'd get beaten up really badly if he got in the ring with David Haye, real bad. Was funny to watch his reaction though no doubt.
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Haye would flatten Bellew comfortably, but I still think Bellew is kinda right. Haye has been full of shit for years, blew his biggest ever fight, and hasn't really fought anybody of consequence since his comeback. Fair points, for me.
 
Claymore said:
Not really, Haye had over 3 years out injured, he's entitled to take 3 easier fights to comeback before going strong into it, he's now talking about big fights. Haye's not conned the public over anything, he sold out O2 arene because the people all find him exciting to watch.

Bellew has been garbage in all but his last two fights. Bellew needs Haye, Haye don't need Bellew and he know's it. Strange though because I think he'd get beaten up really badly if he got in the ring with David Haye, real bad. Was funny to watch his reaction though no doubt.
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He conned the public into thinking he had a chance against Wlad
 
Can't stand Bellew, not a massive fan of Haye either but hope Haye smashes him. Bellew is a hugely average boxer and on top of it possibly the most cringing person ever when he speaks, typical Scouser really.
 
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