The RedCafe Boxing Thread

Revan said:
Roman Gonzales became four weight champion by defeating Cuadras. Ring has had him as No.1 p4p for some time now, and I am starting to agree with them.

I love GGG, but he needs to fight top fighters in order to be recognized as No.1 p4p boxer. Time for him to put an ultimatum to Canelo saying that if he doesn't accept the fight, he is going to 168 forever.
Click to expand...
Luckily for Roman, he's the cashcow in the smaller divisions so it's easy for him to get the big fights. He's at 46-0 so he's chasing Floyd too!

I think they're going to mandate Golovkin - Jacobs so hopefully that fight happens. I don't think BJS or Eubank will fight him.
 
Just saw that Ring's middleweight champion is Canelo :lol: His real titles are none. On the other side, GGG has WBC, WBA, IBF and lineal titles, but that doesn't count as much as being Oscar's friend.

Fingers crossed about GGG-Jacobs. It would be GGG's biggest test yet. Hoping more thought hat Saunders accepts the fight and so GGG gets all the belt. Then he can leave the class weight for further glory in 168.
 
Last edited:
Summit said:
According to brook he said their plan was to come on strong in the second half of the fight.
Click to expand...

That's clearly bollocks, if true, him and his team are more stupid than ever.

How anyone can expect to put that much weight on and then think they can perform better in the later rounds against a guy who is used to carrying that weight is mind boggling.
 
So Kell confirms he has an op on Monday for his broken eye socket. Right decision to quit nothing good was going to come from fighting on. Would be interesting to see how far it would've gone if he didn't get that injury so early on.
 
One Night Only said:
That's clearly bollocks, if true, him and his team are more stupid than ever.

How anyone can expect to put that much weight on and then think they can perform better in the later rounds against a guy who is used to carrying that weight is mind boggling.
Click to expand...
What's bollocks? He said it after the fight, why would I make it up?
 
rednev said:
Pathetic decision to stop the fight. Brook's team should feel embarrassed. The Pussy Team.
Click to expand...

rednev said:
This is professional boxing, not tiddlywinks. And we're not even talking about a heavyweight fight where fighters can be seriously injured with just one punch - at this weight it takes sustained blows to the head over many rounds to result in a fighter getting seriously hurt. Brook was holding his own until the 5th round, and even in that round he was still throwing some decent shots. If corners are now going to stop fights this easily, boxing will no longer be the spectacle that makes it so popular. You might as well just watch MMA.
Click to expand...

rednev said:
I agree with this. Brook looked like a scared little boy at the end of the 4th round, despite having put up a decent fight. His corner sensed he didn't have the heart to continue.
Click to expand...

Sorry but you're massively wrong and from what you're saying can see you've never actually been in a fight/sparred yourself.

Mentally Brook survives without a brutal Khan/Alvarez style knockout.

His eye socket was broken and he's since had an operation. It was one of the best pieces of corner work I've seen for sometime. Why watch your fighter get even more seriously hurt to please uneducated armchair fans like yourself?
 
Summit said:
What's bollocks? He said it after the fight, why would I make it up?
Click to expand...

I think he's implying that Kell himself probably didn't believe it. I mean what would a classy operator like brook know about potentially hitting and moving for 18 minutes in order to give himself a chance on the scorecard, regardless of extra weight.
 
TheReligion said:
Sorry but you're massively wrong and from what you're saying can see you've never actually been in a fight/sparred yourself.

Mentally Brook survives without a brutal Khan/Alvarez style knockout.

His eye socket was broken and he's since had an operation. It was one of the best pieces of corner work I've seen for sometime. Why watch your fighter get even more seriously hurt to please uneducated armchair fans like yourself?
Click to expand...

7/10. He should have threw the towel after 2 seconds.
 
Summit said:
What's bollocks? He said it after the fight, why would I make it up?
Click to expand...

I didn't say you made it up, I was saying it was bollocks as a statement.

Yeah, because boxers clearly always tell the truth after a fight. No boxer would admit after 6 rounds they were going to give in... It was an obvious and smart game plan. Hurt golovkin early, if not, brook gets pulled out as soon as he is in danger.
 
Personally I'm not a fan of the escape plan, if there was one. People pay a lot of money to see an event like that and no boxer should sell tickets and PPVs if they are planning on an escape route if certain things don't work out.

I am a fan of Brook but I did get a feeling something fishy was going in when Brook put it all on Ingle in the post fight interview. Kell seemed in pretty good shape in that interview too. He seemed fresh.
 
Do you really think there was a plan to bail if he was In harms way ? He jumped up two weights to fight one of the hardest punchers the division has ever had , he was in harms way the second the bell rang . If they were worried about him getting hurt they wouldn't have taken the fight in the first place. Their gameplan was built around brook having more ring craft , but it just doesn't matter when you can't hurt the guy chasing you around the ring.

BJS saying that he saw what he wanted to see in terms of going up against GGG. Golovkin will end his career if they ever fight.
 
DavidG said:
Do you really think there was a plan to bail if he was In harms way ? He jumped up two weights to fight one of the hardest punchers the division has ever had , he was in harms way the second the bell rang . If they were worried about him getting hurt they wouldn't have taken the fight in the first place. Their gameplan was built around brook having more ring craft , but it just doesn't matter when you can't hurt the guy chasing you around the ring.

BJS saying that he saw what he wanted to see in terms of going up against GGG. Golovkin will end his career if they ever fight.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying one was the other, just a few aspects seemed off, that is all. It wouldn't be a case of him being afraid to get hurt, it is more a smart business decision. Hard long fights can leave a fighter being never the same again. Brook took all the realistic upside from that fight in the end.

The idea that dark arts and dark practices don't take place in boxing is crazy though. There is no other sport that has as much opportunity for corruption as boxing. The fact that there is no central controlling body and that all fights are essentially business deals with the referee and judges employed by the power brokers in those deals tells you all you need to know.
 
DavidG said:
Do you really think there was a plan to bail if he was In harms way ? He jumped up two weights to fight one of the hardest punchers the division has ever had , he was in harms way the second the bell rang . If they were worried about him getting hurt they wouldn't have taken the fight in the first place. Their gameplan was built around brook having more ring craft , but it just doesn't matter when you can't hurt the guy chasing you around the ring.

BJS saying that he saw what he wanted to see in terms of going up against GGG. Golovkin will end his career if they ever fight.
Click to expand...

The way the fight ended I would have to say there must have been atleast a discussion on a possible early stoppage from the corner before the fight. As others have said above when Kell threw his best shots and it was clear that they had no effect the corner just pulled there man out as early as they could. All Kell/Hearn really wanted from this fight was the exposure and the money which was achieved within those 5 rounds, no need to carry on taking punishment. As someone mentioned earlier, hopefully this puts an end to these pointless fights and we get some proper matchups.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I'm not saying one was the other, just a few aspects seemed off, that is all. It wouldn't be a case of him being afraid to get hurt, it is more a smart business decision. Hard long fights can leave a fighter being never the same again. Brook took all the realistic upside from that fight in the end.

The idea that dark arts and dark practices don't take place in boxing is crazy though. There is no other sport that has as much opportunity for corruption as boxing. The fact that there is no central controlling body and that all fights are essentially business deals with the referee and judges employed by the power brokers in those deals tells you all you need to know.
Click to expand...

Definitely a dark side but I don't see it in this fight .

What I don't understand is why the referee -in a sport where two people punch each other as hard and as often as they can - wears sleek black shoes , nice dressy trousers , a white shirt and a bowtie.
 
DavidG said:
Definitely a dark side but I don't see it in this fight .

What I don't understand is why the referee -in a sport where two people punch each other as hard and as often as they can - wears sleek black shoes , nice dressy trousers , a white shirt and a bowtie.
Click to expand...

Boxing is a very curious sport when you look at it in a certain light. I sometimes wonder why I like it so much.

When a fight really goes off though, it is my favourite sporting spectacle.
 
DavidG said:
Definitely a dark side but I don't see it in this fight .

What I don't understand is why the referee -in a sport where two people punch each other as hard and as often as they can - wears sleek black shoes , nice dressy trousers , a white shirt and a bowtie.
Click to expand...

Its a bit like coaches/managers in baseball wearing full playing kit with assigned numbers and everything, you have men in their 60s/70s stood on the sidelines in full kit purely because its a tradition from the origins of the game that nobody feels the need or wants to change

A lot of amateur boxing takes place at dinner/boxing nights in clubs up and down the country, maybe the refs just used to be regular punters out for a meal or something
 
One Night Only said:
That's clearly bollocks, if true, him and his team are more stupid than ever.

How anyone can expect to put that much weight on and then think they can perform better in the later rounds against a guy who is used to carrying that weight is mind boggling.
Click to expand...

What are you on about? What weight do you think Kell walks around at? He isn't having to put on extra weight... he just doesn't have to lose as much weight and dehydrate himself to a ridiculous degree to make 147. Boxers typically weigh in over 14lbs less during the weigh-in than what they actually weigh the following day on fight night. Do you actually think dehydrating and starving yourself to make weight (usually to the point you look unwell), means you have better stamina in the later rounds? Not a chance. Kell would have been as fit and well prepared as ever because of the extra weight. GGG was just too strong and powerful so he didn't get to see the later rounds... that's it.
 
ZupZup said:
What are you on about? What weight do you think Kell walks around at? He isn't having to put on extra weight... he just doesn't have to lose as much weight and dehydrate himself to a ridiculous degree to make 147. Boxers typically weigh in over 14lbs less during the weigh-in than what they actually weigh the following day on fight night. Do you actually think dehydrating and starving yourself to make weight (usually to the point you look unwell), means you have better stamina in the later rounds? Not a chance. Kell would have been as fit and well prepared as ever because of the extra weight. GGG was just too strong and powerful so he didn't get to see the later rounds... that's it.
Click to expand...

In fairness it's not that simple. Against Golovkin was probably the heaviest he has ever fought at. Of course his weltweight fights won't be at 147 he'll weigh more but I'd suggest that Saturday night was the most he has ever weighed to box. Given the fact he's not walking around, he's actually in a fight and getting punched in the face at a weight he hasn't fought at before that would effect your stamina. That size would of made a difference to him. Listen to someone like McGregor vs. Diaz in the first fight him and his coach both explained it quite well why there would be a difference.
 
Oggmonster said:
In fairness it's not that simple. Against Golovkin was probably the heaviest he has ever fought at. Of course his weltweight fights won't be at 147 he'll weigh more but I'd suggest that Saturday night was the most he has ever weighed to box. Given the fact he's not walking around, he's actually in a fight and getting punched in the face at a weight he hasn't fought at before that would effect your stamina. That size would of made a difference to him. Listen to someone like McGregor vs. Diaz in the first fight him and his coach both explained it quite well why there would be a difference.
Click to expand...

When Kell fights at Welter he will be weighing around 160 on fight night... possible more as he is a big Welterweight. Not having to cut so much to make weight usually has the effect of making the boxer feel stronger and like they have more stamina. Exactly like what Carl Frampton said before his fight at the higher weight with Santa Cruz. Kell walks around at about 175lbs-ish when he isn't fighting, so he is still training hard and cutting to make middleweight at 160lbs. He just gets to eat a bit better and dehydrate less.

McGregor v Diaz is a bit of a different story. That's a much bigger weight jump... that's like going from less than Welterweight to more than Super Middle in boxing terms (from the Aldo fight to Diaz). The increase in muscle mass alone will effect your stamina when you jump up that much. That's practically double what Kell did.
 
ZupZup said:
When Kell fights at Welter he will be weighing around 160 on fight night... possible more as he is a big Welterweight. Not having to cut so much to make weight usually has the effect of making the boxer feel stronger and like they have more stamina. Exactly like what Carl Frampton said before his fight at the higher weight with Santa Cruz. Kell walks around at about 175lbs-ish when he isn't fighting, so he is still training hard and cutting to make middleweight at 160lbs. He just gets to eat a bit better and dehydrate less.

McGregor v Diaz is a bit of a different story. That's a much bigger weight jump... that's like going from less than Welterweight to more than Super Middle in boxing terms (from the Aldo fight to Diaz). The increase in muscle mass alone will effect your stamina when you jump up that much. That's practically double what Kell did.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I think you have got to factor in various things though which would effecth is stamina and his size would of been 1 of them. Also a key one is getting punched in the face by probably p4p the hardest hitter in boxing.

pauldyson1uk said:
http://www.skysports.com/boxing/new...ess-conference-for-wladimir-klitschko-rematch
Click to expand...

Not really got much interest in this rematch prob be different closer to the time but the first fight was terrible and can't see how this is anybetter. Fury doesn't seem arsed in the slightest and Wlad isn't getting any younger.
 
ZupZup said:
What are you on about? What weight do you think Kell walks around at? He isn't having to put on extra weight... he just doesn't have to lose as much weight and dehydrate himself to a ridiculous degree to make 147. Boxers typically weigh in over 14lbs less during the weigh-in than what they actually weigh the following day on fight night. Do you actually think dehydrating and starving yourself to make weight (usually to the point you look unwell), means you have better stamina in the later rounds? Not a chance. Kell would have been as fit and well prepared as ever because of the extra weight. GGG was just too strong and powerful so he didn't get to see the later rounds... that's it.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure Kell said himself that he put mass on for this fight.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Pretty sure Kell said himself that he put mass on for this fight.
Click to expand...

I am sure he did if he is comparing it to when he had to drain himself to make 147... a weight he openly admits to having to struggle to make. He weighed 178 lbs two months prior to the fight with GGG (having trained down from 185). Given that he had to weigh in at 160, I'd say that he had to lose weight.
 
ZupZup said:
I am sure he did if he is comparing it to when he had to drain himself to make 147... a weight he openly admits to having to struggle to make. He weighed 178 lbs two months prior to the fight with GGG (having trained down from 185). Given that he had to weigh in at 160, I'd say that he had to lose weight.
Click to expand...

I would imagine that he put a lot of mass on in the gym and then worked down to higher quality lean muscle and that is why he weighed so much earlier on.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I would imagine that he put a lot of mass on in the gym and then worked down to higher quality lean muscle and that is why he weighed so much earlier on.
Click to expand...

Perhaps but you make it sound like he had to put on weight for his fight with GGG and it's simply not the case. The only time he'll ever be 160 or less is when he is making weight for a fight.

He said himself before the fight how he felt a lot better having only had to get down to 160...

Kell Brook said:
"If you ask any of my sparring partners when I get down to that natural weight of 160lbs, I’m a beast,” said Brook to skysports.com. “I’m a different animal. When I’m a middleweight in training, I’m a different animal. What it takes for me to get down to 147lbs is really hard. Anyone who knows me will tell you.”
Click to expand...
 
ZupZup said:
Perhaps but you make it sound like he had to put on weight for his fight with GGG and it's simply not the case. The only time he'll ever be 160 or less is when he is making weight for a fight.

He said himself before the fight how he felt a lot better having only had to get down to 160...
Click to expand...

Boxers always talk crap about how great they feel at their new weight. If he feels so great the why is he going down to light middleweight?
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Boxers always talk crap about how great they feel at their new weight. If he feels so great the why is he going down to light middleweight?
Click to expand...

Because you have to take into account the opponents. It's a trade off between being bigger and more powerful at that weight class and the negative impacts of weight draining.

Feeling great at the weight isn't going to be much help if you're fighting a guy over 10 lbs heavier than you when it comes to fight time.

You end up with dangerous mismatches like Gamache getting left with brain damage by Arturo Gatti who gained 20 lbs after the weigh-in when Gamache had only gained about 5.
 
ZupZup said:
Because you have to take into account the opponents. It's a trade off between being bigger and more powerful at that weight class and the negative impacts of weight draining.

Feeling great at the weight isn't going to be much help if you're fighting a guy over 10 lbs heavier than you when it comes to fight time.

You end up with dangerous mismatches like Gamache getting left with brain damage by Arturo Gatti who gained 20 lbs after the weigh-in when Gamache had only gained about 5.
Click to expand...

That isn't why boxers get brain damage.

Brain injuries are more common in the lower weight classes because it isn't how hard you get hit, it is how many times you get hit. The smaller weight classes have less knockouts and stoppages so on average they get hit more in a fight.

Brain injuries became prevalent in fistic combat when fighters started wearing gloves because they didn't get knocked out as readily and received more blows to the head.

It is more bad luck that a boxer gets brain damage and is usually due to second impact syndrome which is when there is a bleed on the brain and the boxer receives one or several more blows to the head.

A number of boxers that get brain damage walk out of the ring, there was one, I can't remember his name, who collapsed and died a day after the fight whilst sightseeing in New York.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
That isn't why boxers get brain damage.

Brain injuries are more common in the lower weight classes because it isn't how hard you get hit, it is how many times you get hit. The smaller weight classes have less knockouts and stoppages so on average they get hit more in a fight.

Brain injuries became prevalent in fistic combat when fighters started wearing gloves because they didn't get knocked out as readily and received more blows to the head.

It is more bad luck that a boxer gets brain damage and is usually due to second impact syndrome which is when there is a bleed on the brain and the boxer receives one or several more blows to the head.

A number of boxers that get brain damage walk out of the ring, there was one, I can't remember his name, who collapsed and died a day after the fight whilst sightseeing in New York.
Click to expand...

Well, you really can't say 'that isn't why boxers get brain damage' as if it's one rule for all. Boxers fighting someone who massively outweighs them is dangerous, particularly in the lower weights... it is practically the whole reason we have weight divisions.
 
ZupZup said:
Well, you really can't say 'that isn't why boxers get brain damage' as if it's one rule for all. Boxers fighting someone who massively outweighs them is dangerous, particularly in the lower weights... it is practically the whole reason we have weight divisions.
Click to expand...

You can say that. The heavyweight division has the least serious incidents because they knock each other out more regularly. The reasons for weight classes is to ensure a sporting contest primarily. Physics determines that are smaller fighter gets hurt more by a bigger fighter and in turn can't hurt the bigger fighter as much. Then there is the strengh difference which means the bigger fighter can bully the smaller fighter and drain their energy by leaning on them. It isn't fair as a sporting contest. To have the optimum sporting contest the fighters should be as evenly physically matched as possible.

You are right though, sometimes a single shot can do all the damage.
 
I think Brook did put on a bit of muscle prior to trimming down to 160.

I personally would like to see him go back down the 147, cause that's still where all the money fights are. There's only one money fight at 54. I wanna see him beat all the American welterweights, just to shut them up tbh.
 
Not sure Brook can come back from a fractured eye socket, if that's indeed the injury he sustained. Brook did well but I think Matchroom may have inadvertently fecked up his career.
 
RedFish said:
Not sure Brook can come back from a fractured eye socket, if that's indeed the injury he sustained. Brook did well but I think Matchroom may have inadvertently fecked up his career.
Click to expand...

Of course he can. Malignaggi suffered the same injury ten years ago in a fight against Cotto and is still fighting today.

Brutal fight by the way.
 
Yorkeontop said:
I'm guessing Canelo is just going to wait for Gennady to get old before fighting him.
Click to expand...

Most probably yeah. They won't be fighting soon if GGG wants to fight Saunders next and unify the division which he's always said he wanted to do (albeit when Canelo was champion.) It's typical of modern boxing that they will probably only fight once 1 is way past their best.
 
Smith doing well here. He has a chance to take control going in deep here due to Canelo potentially slowing due to his weight cut

Edit: well this is going well! Ffs
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.