The RedCafe Boxing Thread

Classical Mechanic said:
Not sure about that, he looked undefined and just more fat to me.
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I'm with @NinjaFletch - in fact, I suggested as such on here after the fight. Definition alone isn't the biggest indicator of such PED suspicions. It was the sheer bulk of clear muscle mass with it. On top of an already heavily sculpted physique that was lean compared to other natural heavyweights.

Haye went from being a ripped cruiserweight to 4 years later looking every bit a natural heavyweight albeit one of "small" height. Now considering it was unlikely that in his early 30's he was due a growth spurt of that nature, it's only logical that people are beginning to wonder what the root cause might be.

There was a clear window to use something that could be frowned upon within boxing circles, at no point do I suggest anything illegal here, that was probably prescribed as a medical means to heal the shoulder injury and rehabilitate at first. Then a long lay off and reaping the benefits of such to deliver longer term results while his career path was stagnating at the top.

FC Ronaldo said:
Annihilation.

Haye looked so much thicker in his neck and upper chest. Not to look at straight on but the sheer depth of it all from the elevated camera angle above. Enough of a growth to raise my suspicions as to the authenticity of it. Nearly 4 years out is enough to rehab injuries, "grow" and clear any traces of something.

The power is clearly still there. Nervous energy with the big swings but he knew after the first time he landed and hurt De Mori that he was a level or 3 above.
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For what it's worth I really like Haye. For some reason I always have done. I remember watching his early progress on BBC and being gutted about the unprofessional manner in which he approached all aspects of the Carl Thompson fight.
 
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FORMER two-weight world champion David Haye broke broadcasting records this weekend for UKTV channel Dave, with a peak of 3 million viewers tuning in to watch The Hayemaker’s long-awaited comeback versus Australian Mark De Mori.

Dave, broadcasting a live sports event for the very first time, peaked a total of 3.02 million viewers for the fight – 14% of the UK TV audience – making it the top non-public broadcast service programme of the day. During the fight Dave actually experienced a higher share of the UK audience than Channel 4 and was only 1 per cent behind ITV. In addition, 100,000 viewers streamed the fight live on YouTube around the world.

In a first for boxing, the bout was broadcast live in 360°-video, via a multi-camera video production streamed on the Hayemaker 360 app. Highlights of this ground-breaking broadcast will be available on the Hayemaker 360 app from 11pm on January 18.

More than 16,000 spectators packed into The O2 to watch The Hayemaker deliver a his signature right hand to knockout top 10 WBA ranked Mark de Mori in what is Haye’s eighth first round KO of his professional career and 25th knock-out in his 27 professional wins. The packed audience included the stars of Hollywood including actor Benedict Cumberbatch and Luther star Idris Elba, proving it to be the hottest ticket in town.

Haye’s comeback was a huge success on social media, with #HayeDay trending on Facebook and Twitter throughout the evening and a Snapchat Live Story chronicled events from the fans perspective inside the packed O2.

Commenting on his successful comeback, Haye said: “When we set out on this journey, the aim was to bring boxing back to as many people as possible and we have certainly done that. We have worked relentlessly for the past 7 weeks to put together an amazing event and I’m humbled that over 3 million people tuned in and 16,000 came down to The O2 to see me in action.”

“This is just the beginning of the road back to regaining the heavyweight championship of the world. I’m thankful for all the support I’ve received so far and hope the fans stick with me because there is a lot more to come from The Hayemaker.”

Haye joined forces with entertainment, media and marketing company Salter Brothers Entertainment to promote the fight. They collectively devised ‘Haye Day’ with the goal of bringing the love and excitement of big-time boxing to a wider audience.

Co-promoters, Salter Brothers Entertainment, said: “We have worked tirelessly to make Haye Day a success and the numbers in attendance and watching around the world prove that. We wanted to bring boxing into the digital age and make Haye Day stand-out as a landmark event in the boxing world.

“We partnered with some of the biggest social media outlets in the world including YouTube, Twitter and Snapchat. These partnerships were a huge success and resulted in Haye Day resonating with the public across broadcast, social and digital channels.”
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http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/peak-audience-of-three-million-watch-david-hayes-comeback/

That's a very good result for Haye really. Does show there's still an interest in watching him fight. It did seem marketed really well I thought.
 
Oggmonster said:
http://www.boxingnewsonline.net/peak-audience-of-three-million-watch-david-hayes-comeback/

That's a very good result for Haye really. Does show there's still an interest in watching him fight. It did seem marketed really well I thought.
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Fair play to him, most exciting British fighter around (other than AJ). Honestly, if he can fight twice more this year, then I'd have no problems ranking him in the top 3-5 in the division. He'd beat Wilder, that's for certain. Joshua too, because Joshua just isn't ready.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
Fair play to him, most exciting British fighter around (other than AJ). Honestly, if he can fight twice more this year, then I'd have no problems ranking him in the top 3-5 in the division. He'd beat Wilder, that's for certain. Joshua too, because Joshua just isn't ready.
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Yeah Ive always liked Haye. Whether he's in it for the pay day or not doesn't really bother me just want to see exciting fights and he usually brings that! Makes the heavyweight scene a bit more interesting anyway
 
christy87 said:
AJ could be in line for a shot at the IBF belt according to the rankings and looking at Charles Martin he looks the easiest of the champs, could see Haye trying to talk his way in to fight with him as well.
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He is ranked 9th in WBA (after his victory last week). An another win against a top 10 will likely give him a shoot to fight the champion.
 
Just saw a rerun of Froch v Bute in one of Sky's 'Gold' repeat time-fillers. Missed it at the time- hell that was a savage finish!
 
@FC Ronaldo

Haye weighed in only 10lbs heavier against Mori than he did against Valuev. I find the idea that it took three years and lots of steroids for someone of Haye's gifted genetics to put on 10lbs of undefined muscle on a bit ridiculous. I mean I am skinny and averaged height and I can put 7lbs of fat on my stomach and chest from being lean and still wear the same size jeans. I did it over Christmas.

You don't need three years away from the sport to get away with steroid abuse anyway. I think we can all think of one fighter who got away with it in the past few years in a very high profile fight.
 
Jippy said:
Just saw a rerun of Froch v Bute in one of Sky's 'Gold' repeat time-fillers. Missed it at the time- hell that was a savage finish!
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Despite him being a bit cringing now I'll always give Froch credit for fighting anyone in his career. He was always entertaining to watch as well.

Classical Mechanic said:
@FC Ronaldo

Haye weighed in only 10lbs heavier against Mori than he did against Valuev. I find the idea that it took three years and lots of steroids for someone of Haye's gifted genetics to put on 10lbs of undefined muscle on a bit ridiculous. I mean I am skinny and averaged height and I can put 7lbs of fat on my stomach and chest from being lean and still wear the same size jeans. I did it over Christmas.

You don't need three years away from the sport to get away with steroid abuse anyway. I think we can all think of one fighter who got away with it in the past few years in a very high profile fight.
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I may be cynical but I reckon most top athletes in contact sports will be doing some kind of steroid or something similar and I'd be hugely surprised if Haye isn't one of them.

World champion Kell Brook will defend his IBF welterweight title against mandatory challenger Kevin Bizier in his home city of Sheffield on 26 March.

Brook's third defence of the title he won by beating Shawn Porter in California in August 2014 will take place at the Sheffield Arena.

Brook, 29, returns after missing a scheduled defence against Diego Chaves in October because of a rib injury.

He said: "I've fully recovered from the injury and feel stronger than ever."

Canadian fighter Bizier, 31, has lost only twice with 17 of his 25 career wins coming inside the distance.

His two defeats were against Romanian Jo Jo Dan, who Brook beat in March 2015 in his first fight since being stabbed in the leg while on holiday in Tenerife.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/35361197

Been confirmed now it seems. Brook vs. Bizier, the fight all boxing fans have been dying for. I've not been this excited since Brook vs. Dan
 
Oggmonster said:
Despite him being a bit cringing now I'll always give Froch credit for fighting anyone in his career. He was always entertaining to watch as well.
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Yep, he had plenty of bottle. His self-congratulatory ringside interview after Groves II was super-cringey.
 
@Oggmonster

I wouldn't be surprised if he was doping but I wouldn't be hugely surprised if he wasn't.

Boxers only take the most basic of urine drug tests under most commission rules. The WADA style testing only occurs as part of contract negotiations for a fight.

Mayweather liked to call this 'Olympic style testing', which was a flat out misleading lie, Olympic athletes are tested all year round randomly. Mayweather has only ever been subject to testing within three months of a fight.

I believe Nonito Donaire voluntarily signed up to year round testing but I don't know of any other fighters that have or if he still does it now he has fallen off his perch.
 
Joshua has fought nothing but bums so far, as impressive as he's looked in beating them all. Still, he was wobbly in his last fight against a far lesser opponent than Chisora.
 
How the hell is Chisora still getting half-decent fights?
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
Joshua has fought nothing but bums so far, as impressive as he's looked in beating them all. Still, he was wobbly in his last fight against a far lesser opponent than Chisora.
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Whyte isn't less of an opponent than Del Boy. I think Dillian & AJ would both beat him, Chisora just has more experience.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
@Oggmonster

I wouldn't be surprised if he was doping but I wouldn't be hugely surprised if he wasn't.

Boxers only take the most basic of urine drug tests under most commission rules. The WADA style testing only occurs as part of contract negotiations for a fight.

Mayweather liked to call this 'Olympic style testing', which was a flat out misleading lie, Olympic athletes are tested all year round randomly. Mayweather has only ever been subject to testing within three months of a fight.

I believe Nonito Donaire voluntarily signed up to year round testing but I don't know of any other fighters that have or if he still does it now he has fallen off his perch.
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Fair comments, it's all speculation so I've got no right to say he definitely is in fairness to Haye. Either way I enjoy watching his fights and as I said I'm cynical enough to think most top boxers use something so it never really affects myj udgement on them.

Mciahel Goodman said:
Joshua has fought nothing but bums so far, as impressive as he's looked in beating them all. Still, he was wobbly in his last fight against a far lesser opponent than Chisora.
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I think Chisora would be pretty beatable for Joshua, he's a decent fighter but has taken some beatings in the past. It'd be a challenge for Joshua but I'd be surprised if he didn't win.

Jippy said:
How the hell is Chisora still getting half-decent fights?
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He's a pretty good gatekeeper for top level fighters. He's a tough fighter as well so gives them a bit of a workout if nothing else. It's probably better for a boxer facing him than facing a bum who gets knocked out in 15 seconds.
 
Adcuth said:
Whyte isn't less of an opponent than Del Boy. I think Dillian & AJ would both beat him, Chisora just has more experience.
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Agreed. Chisora will always be a risky match but essentially he's a gatekeeper. Much like Manuel Charr. They carried momentum and did better than expected in their biggest fights but it overinflated their level. They've subsequently been disposed of by anyone of real class thereafter. In most circumstances, comfortably so to.
 
Adcuth said:
Whyte isn't less of an opponent than Del Boy. I think Dillian & AJ would both beat him, Chisora just has more experience.
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It's the experience that makes Chisora a stronger opponent. He isn't anything spectacular, but has been around the block. Is a step up.
 
Oggmonster said:
I think Chisora would be pretty beatable for Joshua, he's a decent fighter but has taken some beatings in the past. It'd be a challenge for Joshua but I'd be surprised if he didn't win.
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I'd expect Joshua to win, but it's definitely the biggest challenge he's had so far. The sort he needs to have to progress.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
I'd expect Joshua to win, but it's definitely the biggest challenge he's had so far. The sort he needs to have to progress.
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Yeah agreed. The novelty of him knocking bums out in 1 has worn off for me. I enjoyed the Whyte fight and thought more of him coming through that than any other fighter. If he goes and fights someone worse than Whyte it looks poor I think.

David Price is making a comeback as well apparently which adds another potential name to the list.
 
Oggmonster said:
Yeah agreed. The novelty of him knocking bums out in 1 has worn off for me. I enjoyed the Whyte fight and thought more of him coming through that than any other fighter. If he goes and fights someone worse than Whyte it looks poor I think.

David Price is making a comeback as well apparently which adds another potential name to the list.
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David Price doesn't have the bottle to be a contender sadly for him. Not too unlike Audley Harrison methinks.
 
RedFish said:
David Price doesn't have the bottle to be a contender sadly for him. Not too unlike Audley Harrison methinks.
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Agreed he won't beat him but I reckon he'd fight some bigger names for the payday. Harrison managed to get himself a world title fight at 1 point as well which shows anything is possible in boxing despite how ridiculous it may be!!
 
Oggmonster said:
David Price is making a comeback as well apparently which adds another potential name to the list.
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I don't know how desperate they would be to make that fight
Lots of risks, David Price is a big, tall heavyweight (6ft8 according to wiki) - which presents some issues for Joshua, especially as Price himself has power

Yes, he can't take a punch, and for that reason you'd expect Joshua to deal with him, with his power. But there are risks to it, as he would cause him problems. Joshua so far has more or less been fighting guys in the low 6s, one was taller at 6'7. So, they imo will be reluctant to go for Price
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
It's the experience that makes Chisora a stronger opponent. He isn't anything spectacular, but has been around the block. Is a step up.
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I don't think though that Chisora has the talent to take advantage of his experience. Same with Johnson who Del boy went the distance with. Joshua, is a better boxer and his size and power advantaged negate Chisora's experience. He'll have learnt from the Whyte fight about diving in too much and i think we'll see a calmer AJ in this fight, picking his shots and wearing Chisora down. I'll go for him finishing it inside 5
 
David Price would be a complete no-win fight for AJ. Utterly pointless in every aspect.

If he beats him, he's done what he's expected to do and added another highlight reel knockout to a growing collection around Price's glass jaw.

If he loses, and it's a bigger prospect than you think because Price probably has the biggest single punch in HW boxing, then he's suddenly in an unnecessarily tough position in his career.

I don't care much for Price as a fighter, always thought he was flawed technically, but I can't help but feel sorry for him in the fact that his defeats have all come to men that have failed drugs tests. That said, there's only so much goodwill that sob stories can buy you and unless he suddenly develops serious stamina or adopts a risk free style to land his right hand early in fights, then he's getting nowhere above European level. His best bet from a horribly managed career to date would be a British dog fight with Chisora or Whyte in which he can hope to make it exciting enough for a rematch and win both.
 
Adcuth said:
I don't think though that Chisora has the talent to take advantage of his experience. Same with Johnson who Del boy went the distance with. Joshua, is a better boxer and his size and power advantaged negate Chisora's experience. He'll have learnt from the Whyte fight about diving in too much and i think we'll see a calmer AJ in this fight, picking his shots and wearing Chisora down. I'll go for him finishing it inside 5
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Joshua is to static. Makes it easier to counter him when he does go in aggressively. Work on weaving and ducking and he shouldn't be caught out as easily as he was.
 
Re negotiations of the above - though I disagree with the fairness of the percentage split that Khan's lawyer offered, I agree with most things Khan says about the status of the 2 fighters.

Brook is the most protected champion of any weight class in the modern era. He's barely fought anyone of note bar Shawn Porter. He's not entertained a rematch either.

Khan has fought (won and lost) against top level fighters, brings the American audience into the dispute and is a clearly the A-side fighter.

I don't like Khan's sense of self-worth at times but I don't think anyone can deny him the right to call the shots here. He's the more established, world level fighter of the pair by a wide margin.

That said, once this is made (and it will be made eventually) I think the management or to be more apt, the meandering of fights through Khan's career to make himself available to Floyd and Manny, could have a serious implication into how this fight pans out.

I think Brook has more than enough to win this fight. He's a very strong welterweight and has the tools to hurt Khan with most shots that he can land clean. However Khan has the experience, the speed and the frame to be able to A) avoid those shots and B) pressure Brook when necessary.

Brook was badly hurt in the first Carson Jones contest and I can see a scenario where Khan repeats that situation - probably mid to late rounds and without dropping Brook. Brook can drop Khan though. I'm convinced of it.

If I had to pick them now, I'd take Khan by decision but the closer it gets to fight night and the greater the measure you could assess from Brook's state of mind in the immediate build up to the fight, the more I'd lean toward him if all went well and he looked good and intense at the scales and weigh-ins.
 
FC Ronaldo said:
Re negotiations of the above - though I disagree with the fairness of the percentage split that Khan's lawyer offered, I agree with most things Khan says about the status of the 2 fighters.


I don't like Khan's sense of self-worth at times but I don't think anyone can deny him the right to call the shots here. He's the more established, world level fighter of the pair by a wide margin.

That said, once this is made (and it will be made eventually) I think the management or to be more apt, the meandering of fights through Khan's career to make himself available to Floyd and Manny, could haveBrook is the most protected champion of any weight class in the modern era. He's barely fought anyone of note bar Shawn Porter. He's not entertained a rematch either.

Khan has fought (won and lost) against top level fighters, brings the American audience into the dispute and is a clearly the A-side fighter. a serious implication into how this fight pans out.

I think Brook has more than enough to win this fight. He's a very strong welterweight and has the tools to hurt Khan with most shots that he can land clean. However Khan has the experience, the speed and the frame to be able to A) avoid those shots and B) pressure Brook when necessary.

Brook was badly hurt in the first Carson Jones contest and I can see a scenario where Khan repeats that situation - probably mid to late rounds and without dropping Brook. Brook can drop Khan though. I'm convinced of it.
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I'd take Brook right now, a year a two ago I probably would have picked Khan in a fight between the two. Khan with his hand speed, footwork and pure boxing ability made him a worthy 2 time former world champion and a real test for anyone, but the caveat is that he makes too many mistakes in the ring , and is prone to rushing in to throw his combination punches and getting caught in the process. Prescott and Garcia still loom large in the memory.

Brook to my eyes has always had that mental toughness and really solid ring-craft and crucially for me, doesn't look as vulnerable as Khan when the boxing gets into a 'fight'. He uses the ring well, and he has solid technique and hits very hard. I can't imagine Khan managing to avoid Brook punches the whole fight, and I can't imagine Brooks punches not shaking Khan to the core.

Both fabulous fighters, but I'll take Brook to win by TKO inside the distance.
 
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The Khan Brook stuff is weird cos I don't know who to believe. If a deal has been offered at 60/40 Khan should just take it. He's so caught up on the fact he COULD of fought Mayweather and Pacquiao that's it's ruining his reputation really. Brook has fought bums I agree and I've said it here, he's a terrible champion and isn't really a draw outside of Sheffield (he isn't a draw there either) but at least he's active.

Including the Porter fight Brook has fought: Porter, Dan, Gavin and now Bizier. Khan has fought Algieri and Alexander. Both good fighters but he could of fought so much more if he wasn't so desperate to fight the top names he was never going to face. Khan really has a high opinion of himself, he thinks he's a Mayweather but he's nowhere near really. Brook is a terrible champion I agree with people on that, both their reputations are really suffering from this to be honest.

If I had to call it I think Khan would win if it went the distance, Brook has the potential to stop it but at the moment I'd say Khan wins.
 
Now this would be interesting but if I was Whyte I'd try my hand at beating Chisora first. I think he'd have Dereck's number in an entertaining battle. Then move on to Haye or the Joshua rematch.

 
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