Don't agree with that in the slightest - there is no way Gill would have gone a whole transfer window and only delivered Fellaini
I think Moyes was out of his depth at United, but he was also failed miserably by a rookie CEO
The Overlap | Fan Debate Christmas Special
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Don't agree with that in the slightest - there is no way Gill would have gone a whole transfer window and only delivered Fellaini
I think Moyes was out of his depth at United, but he was also failed miserably by a rookie CEO
Are you saying David Gill would have just ignored Moyes and taken over identifying the targets then and signed who he liked?
What in your opinion would Gill have done differently if (as happened) Moyes wanted to wait on Fabregas and Bale? Or (as also happened) Moyes didn't want to sign Fellaini first so he didn't have to deal with that pressure.
That year it was reported (via Hunter according to Moyes) that in the last week of the window that Woodward basically took over identifying targets and went after Herrera, Khedira and Conntrao as Moyes was still dithering. Personally while I may be wrong I don't think Gill would have done that.
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37396980/herrera-right-man-united
How did Woodward fail Moyes?
By hiring him
That was Fergies decision wasn’t it?
He told Moyes in person that he was stepping down and that the job would be offered to Moyes, so i’m sure he had a decent say in it.
Obviously Fergie was well aware of what happened the last time he announced he’d be retiring, but it’s difficult to comprehend that they didn’t have a longer minimum period which would allow for some level of planning. Instead, Fergie pretty much retired at the worst time possible and we were left with the bargain bin and David Moyes.
I think you need a certain attitude, a hunger, to make it at the very top. There’s a long list of clubs that would be seen as natural stepping stones that replaced manager after manager while Moyes was at Everton, i think he just sort of found a level he was comfortable at and that was it.
I just said already, only managing to seal 1 signing and that on deadline day
Every other manager who came after had a decent first summer window
Could’ve signed Fellaini way earlier if Moyes hadn’t insisted on Fellaini not being his first signing, as it would look bad.
Hardly Woodwards fault that Moyes insisted on the club trying to bring in players that were clearly unavailable.
The only alternative was essentially completely ignoring Moyes, and that wouldn’t have gone down very well with anyone.
He would have lined up alternatives and got them in once it became clear the others werent coming or maybe he would have even got the first choices in
Moyes had only ever shopped in Lidl before (Woodward hadn't even been further than the corner shop), he wasn't used to Waitrose so would need to differ to the experienced shopper in Gill
Did Gill casually line up alternatives for Fergie?
Silly question - he obviously didn't need to, Fergie had been going to Waitrose long before Gill got the job
I think him going for Fellaini after Kross and Fabregas plan fell through is a sign that both were the clubs target for so long and Fellaini was his. I mean come on. Going from the best technical midfielders to Fellaini ffs.
Dave was the experienced man in football I place more of the blame on him than Woodward. Nothing illustrates this better than our comical chase of Herrera.
it’s kind of hard when the manager wants a player who has a release clause and the selling club tells you they won’t negotiate and moyes keeps saying don’t pay a penny more than the release clause. In fairness Ed tried to get creative and sent the 3 lawyers to see if we can get the release clause revoked. It really was dumb and dumber.
it’s kind of hard when the manager wants a player who has a release clause and the selling club tells you they won’t negotiate and moyes keeps saying don’t pay a penny more than the release clause. In fairness Ed tried to get creative and sent the 3 lawyers to see if we can get the release clause revoked. It really was dumb and dumber.
Fellaini is a brilliant plan B for any team. There's a reason why so many top managers rate him. Very useful player.
Clubs target?
Would’ve been funny to see him try.
There’s quite a few interviews about Moyes identifying Fabregas and Bale as the ones to get, those were the players that felt like Manchester United players, and he repeatedly highlighted the importance of doing our outmost to bring them in, to the point of waiting until the very end of the window.
It wasn’t really Woodwards job to come up with transfer alternatives for the manager, the point was to attempt to sign whoever the manager wanted. It’s also the way Moyes works, to the point that he also likes to personally scout potential signings. He even did it towards the end of his stint at West Ham, he likes to see the players live before giving the ok to sign them. Nicely illustrated by him not jumping on the chance to sign Thiago as he didn’t know much about him, even though Fergie tried bringing in Thiago before he signed his professional contract at Barcelona, and he wanted to bring him to the club the summer Fergie retired and Thiago ended up going to Bayern.
Being realistic, what was Woodward actually supposed to do then. He had just walked into his new role, how was he supposed to know better than the manager and why would he attempt to bring in someone the manager didn’t really fancy?
Moyes wasn’t let down by Woodward, it was the other way around.
He's now flogging US Insurance ffs. 
Absolute chancerHe's now flogging US Insurance ffs.
So you are saying he would have just ignored Moyes and started playing football manager himself and identifying targets.
United to my knowledge just didn't operate like that back then. The club was built around SAF identifying and deciding on targets. I just don't see Gill undermining Moyes like that before he'd even got his feet under the desk. Even Woodward as I've said was patient with Moyes plan until the last week of the window.
Indeed. Woodward gets a lot of criticism on here, most of it justified. But there wasn't much more he could have done that summer as he was following Moyes plans.
It's strange that over the last decade we've complained about business men ignoring football men. And yet in some instances we have people advocating for the likes of Woodward and Gill to ignore football people
Kroos to my knowledge was never seriously targeted by SAF. And Moyes only went after him in 2014 after Fellaini was already at the club.
Fellaini as Moyes has confirmed was always a target and a player he wanted at United. We were trying to sign him and Baines fairly early in the window that year.
He just didn't want Fellaini to be his first/only big money signing as he didn't think he'd do well with that added pressure.
So they are now doing a watch-a-long in December, they might as well just copy all the fan channel's content by this point. Not a fan of these corporations/companies/TV pundits trying to take over the space of the fan channels. Rio did something similar on his channel by utilising youtube fan channel hosts to try and grow his reach on youtube and then swapped them out this season for ex-players.
Whilst the fan channels have their own issues, the reality is the likes of Rio, Neville, Keane etc don't follow the United team as closely as fan channels or for example this forum. They don't follow the youth teams, they don't travel with the fans etc. For example the likes of United Stand and Stratford Paddock provide so much more better analysis, content etc just because they are completely dedicated to the club and every bit of information that comes out of it. As are other rival channels. Rio, Neville etc provide nothing that you don't get from them on Sky or BT. Which is probably indicative of how shallow their analysis is when the youtube fan channels (not all) provide better insights.
Whilst the fan channels have their own issues, the reality is the likes of Rio, Neville, Keane etc don't follow the United team as closely as fan channels or for example this forum. They don't follow the youth teams, they don't travel with the fans etc. For example the likes of United Stand and Stratford Paddock provide so much more better analysis, content etc just because they are completely dedicated to the club and every bit of information that comes out of it. As are other rival channels. Rio, Neville etc provide nothing that you don't get from them on Sky or BT. Which is probably indicative of how shallow their analysis is when the youtube fan channels (not all) provide better insights.
Ultimately it was Woodward's job to get players signed and he failed miserably in his first transfer window - I am absolutely certain it would not have gone like that if Gill was still around.
Really we dont know who exactly was making decisions and I assume it was a joint effort so Im sure Moyes takes some blame too. There is even evidence that Joel Glazer started taking a more active role in things like transfer business once Gill left so we can also throw his name into the shit pile.
With both Fergie and Gill gone - it was effectively the blind, leading the blind.
No I didnt say that and I dont see it as undermining, I see it as using his knowledge to help and advise someone in a completely new role
Gill had a lot more football knowledge than Woodward too
I'd rather watch them, than parasitic fan channels. If they rip off the fan channels - so what? Isn't that what the fan channels are doing themselves? Ripping off footballer's talent to feed their "content creation"?
Did Sky not basically invent this (in football at least) with the fan watch alongs they did years ago?
I think you're mistaken. If I remember correctly, I think it was Unitedfan4eva69 in his mother's spare room.
#GGMU.
Fanzone was amazing back in the day.
Ultimately it was Woodward’s job to get the players the manager wanted signed. What we do know is that Moyes has frequently, both during that transfer window and during the years, spoken out about who he wanted to bring in, how important they would be as players for this club and why waiting as long as possible in the hope of signing them was the path to go down. In terms of making the decisions, it’s odd that his only complaint was about not being given enough time considering the length of his contract, rather than complain about being derailed at any stage during that fiasco of a transfer window. We also know, by direct quotes from Moyes, that he likes to personally scout players before signing them and we also know that he didn’t fancy going for Thiago because he hadn’t really watched him. Yet you think he’d be open to Gill, Woodward, or any other executive, suggesting other transfers that he hadn’t thought of himself? Good one. You even have quotes from Moyes stating that he specifically didn’t want Fellaini to be the first signing that summer, because it wouldn’t send the right signals…the right signals...It doesn’t really paint a picture of a manager that was let down due to Woodward failing to idenfity transfers, now matter how much you’d like that to be the case.
Maybe Gill would’ve been more direct with Moyes about the slim to none chances of signing either Fabregas or Bale, and insisted on the need to come up with someone else if he actually wanted someone signedi, but we don’t even know if Woodward did that.
Yes
Im sure there was a list longer than Bale & Fabgregas that even Moyes was considering
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Bit of a boring one to be honest.
I skipped around the video a bit, watched the Coote segment, then skipped back and watched a few mins of the title chat. This show is in it's element when they're discussing historical stuff from their playing days and just general off the camera stuff that we don't get to see. I honestly have no interest in hearing who they think is more or less likely to win the title.
Think when they start talking about this stuff it gets too hysterical and the discourse gets crap. I think they should do the fan debate more often (maybe every two weeks) and have all that type of chat there and then like you say, keep the historical stuff and guests for this show.
There very fact that agents would be dealing with Ed is retrospectively laughable.
I’m sure if Gill was instead involved in those conversations, perhaps agents would have reported back to the player that we were less of a circus. Ed smacked of desperation and inexperience.
Used to love this show but it's really gone downhill since they started shoving in all the promo bits. Correlation rather than causation but it seems to be getting a bit tired as a format.
I've really enjoyed the United chat but even I'm nearly sick of it can't imagine what non-Reds must feel like. Surprised Gary hasn't read the room on this one and significantly dialled it down.
I've really enjoyed the United chat but even I'm nearly sick of it can't imagine what non-Reds must feel like. Surprised Gary hasn't read the room on this one and significantly dialled it down.
I think they need a wider variety of guests. People from different backgrounds, older/retired managers, players from different clubs, different countries etc. Even a few more different sports.
These ones without guests are a bit tedious.
Exactly - in fact it was well reported that Joel Glazer asked Gill to get back involved in the January window to make sure the Mata deal got done
I'm surprised that anyone would even argue against the point that Moyes would have had more of a chance with Gill than Woodward
The JJ Watt episode was about as good an episode as they have done, they really need to look outside of football for a few guests.
I found this one quite funny. Good to have Carragher back. Neville just hasn't got it in him to give the scousers any credit. True red!
Found it hilarious when they all having a go at Neville, and he replies that they are only his predictions and not fact! Haha
Found it hilarious when they all having a go at Neville, and he replies that they are only his predictions and not fact! Haha
The players were mostly multiple time champions who had proven they could win with competent leadership. Moyes was the one who had something to prove.
Those players also haven't spent the following 10 years getting in front of a mic at every opportunity to absolve themselves of any blame.