I actually enjoyed it
The Overlap | Fan Debate Christmas Special
- Thread starter Buchan
- Start date
Keanos advice to Garnacho is shocking. Really out of touch with modern players which I find weird.
Well to be fair mate though I worded it differently, you saying Gill would have lined up alternatives and me saying Gill would have started identifying his own targets are essentially the same thing.
At United for years under SAF and for a number of years after the manager identified the targets. Even under Fergie we often spent entire summers chasing the same target that ultimately never ended up coming. So I don't see Gill hitting the panic button and taking over transfer business that summer.
If you disagree fair enough.
Arguably yes but at the end of the day he was still just an accountant like Ed he's not a 'Footbal Man'. I'm surprised that you are suggesitng we'd have been better off with the Business people at the club taking over transfer business from the manager before he'd even got his feet in the door.
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There are fans who want Keane in and around the club
Gill was still Chief Executive when Ferguson picked the manager. He’s also culpable. I’m not trying to be provocative, but Ferguson was over 70 years old, so where was the forward planning on behalf of our executives?
The club was completely ill prepared on so many fronts. It’s just an easier narrative to pretend that it wasn’t and lay all of the blame at Ed Woodward’s door.
Maybe not if his only advice is “get another job” !There are fans who want Keane in and around the club
I'm not doing that to be fair. Yes he was still CEO but I'm pretty sure the Glazers had already decided by that stage that Ferguson was going to be the one to chose his own successor.
I’m not convinced the Glazers decided anything. If I remember rightly, it was decided by Ferguson that he would choose himself. He had full power, top to bottom: a uniquely mad arrangement which contributed to our success, but probably contributed in some part to the failures that followed.
I don’t think anybody comes out of the last ten years looking particularly rosy, all in all.
Most of the blame does lie with Woodward because he was woefully inexperienced in football, and more so because he refused to modernise the club structure and delegate to competent football people.
In that scenario Moyes was thrown in at the deep end, which wouldn’t have happened if Gill stuck around until DM was settled. That said will sir Alex gone, and Gill gone Moyes then put the final nail in his own coffin by removing all of the coaches and bringing in people who simply weren’t good enough. That’s everything that made the club a success gone in one move, with the obviously disastrous results that followed.
Don't know mate, I doubt the Glazers would have been ok with SAF making those sort of decisions unilaterally. SAF had control of the football side of things he didn't control the whole club, Gill was his boss and ultimately the Glazers above him.
He did though, didn’t he?! SAF called the shots, Gill made it happen and the Glazers (Malcolm at that time) was uninterested in football and happy to take in the cash while SAF and Gill did all the donkey work. Glazer was many things, but he wasn’t stupid enough to come in and change a winning setup.
The club’s structure modernised more in the space of five years under Woodward than it did under Gill’s in the previous ten. It had to.
It didn’t go to plan, and mistakes were clearly made, but it is completely disingenuous to lambast the structure at United without scrutinising the neglect that took place between 2005 and 2013 under the nose of the Glazers, Gill, and (yes, sadly) Ferguson.
So who decided then? The whole thing was bizarre.
My intention isn’t to absolve Ed Woodward of all people. I just think many folk like to pin all of the blame for our woes on him instead of facing the uncomfortable truth that the club wasn’t prepared (at all) for the retirement of Ferguson.
No he didn't as I said he had a virtually free reign on the football side of things but he had virtually no say on the business side of things. I don't imagine Alex Ferguson strode into the boardroom in 2013 and told Gill, the board and the Glazers that he's decided he'll choose his own successor.
The owners of the club I'd imagine, the same people who've made all the major decisions for the club between 2005 and 2024.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...erguson-glazers-ed-woodward-manchester-united
He didn’t need to stride in anywhere or tell anyone anything. Malcolm was happy to defer to SAF greater knowledge. If SAF suggested Moyes, he would have accepted it as a good decision.
Of course it was Glazers decision to appoint Woodward as a trusted lieutenant but otherwise he was as uninterested as it gets.
No it's not the same thing at all and I never said anything about 'taking over' either - again those are your words, not mine.
Bizarre to me that anyone would even argue with the point that we'd have been vastly better off if Gill stayed around rather than going with the completely inexperienced and inept Woodward
Why do you think Gill was called back in January to complete the Mata transfer?
Quite obviously it was to avoid the absolute mess they made of the summer window
Brilliant episode!
I actually think the whole 'Fergie handpicked Moyes' thing is unlikely to be true either
There was a whole board of directors who will have had a say (including Fergie, Gill and even Bobby Charlton) - I'm sure Fergie did have a big say though
Plus it was unfortunate timing that it seemed several high profile managers (Pep, Ancellotti etc) had accepted other jobs just before Fergie announced he was leaving
There was a whole board of directors who will have had a say (including Fergie, Gill and even Bobby Charlton) - I'm sure Fergie did have a big say though
Plus it was unfortunate timing that it seemed several high profile managers (Pep, Ancellotti etc) had accepted other jobs just before Fergie announced he was leaving
Well, he did mention that Ferguson always said Ronaldo might be interested in a return from Madrid.
Not sure if that’s what you had in mind.
If he had a longer list, it’s been a well kept secret for close to 10,5 years.
Atrocious planning, not unfortunate timing.
Thought everyone had long accepted that the "chosen one" nonsense was more PR.
And that the reality was that he was about 7th down a huge long line of much better options.
The club had previously briefed that the successor needed to have European and cup winning pedigree! Then we went for a guy with about 4 european games in his whole history,. never won anything and played agricultural battling football.
What did he say?
If he can’t celebrate a goal, get another job. It’s pathetic really. Displaying zero understanding of the player, his age and his mentality. Poor from Roy on this one.
But that’s his argument ain’t it? He calls modern players soft and that they don’t have a strong mentality.
I'd be sympathetic to Garnacho and have no issue with his celebration but I still think Keane has a point. If fans being a fecking nuisance is dragging you down to the point you cant enjoy a goal then there's probably easier places to make a living.
Shocking?
What a monumental exaggeration.But I guess it’s to be expected in the modern day.
Hopefully Garnacho can recover from Keanes shocking comments.
Moyes did not have any experience shopping in a market relevant to Manchester United in terms of profile, quality and price of players. So yeah, it makes sense that he wouldn't have had this long list of options, and that he would focus on well-known targets like Bale and Fabregas (Oh, and his Everton lads).
He won’t celebrate his next goal because of Keane now.Shocking?
But I guess it’s to be expected in the modern day.
Hopefully Garnacho can recover from Keanes shocking comments.
Shocking as in shockingly bad/poor, not as in I was shocked by them. No need to be a dick about itShocking?
But I guess it’s to be expected in the modern day.
Hopefully Garnacho can recover from Keanes shocking comments.
Keane’s comments are fair.
Garnacho needs a bit of guidance, to be fair. He needs telling that you should try to enjoy and celebrate every goal and ignore the odd random YT bloke dressing up as a fan. He'll learn.
I think the fact he let it get to him that much is a bit worrying.
Nah, we're all different. That said if the team had a strong mentality any young player would naturally follow the suit.
Disagree. Confidence plays a huge part in the professional game, and your fans are supposed to boost that confidence (hence the term ‘supporters). When a player scores they generally run to their crowd to celebrate. If Garnacho is hurt by the comments he isn’t going to want to celebrate with those responsible. Stuff like this affects the connection between the team and the fans. Seems reasonable to me. It’s not that he wasn’t pleased to score, just he didn’t want to share that with the fans. Keano should get that.
I agree here however.
What was it?
One fan annoying him means he can't celebrate with the tens of thousands in the stadium supporting him and the team?
That's nonsense. Particularly as the "fan" in the video obviously did it to get any kind of reaction from him.
Keane can't relate because he had an elite mentality. Garnacho seemingly doesn't.
I thought that too but just read some of the comments and here and you will realise that some fans actually believe that Moyes was Fergie's first choice !