The MMA thread

Fortitude said:
You/They can't have it both ways. Woodley is a straight-down-the-middle-fighter and he will always fight cautiously now if the opportunity to do so is there.
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"You/they"... Fwiw, I'm the first to call out the UFC for not giving deserving fighters a shot at the title.

And the 'opportunity to fight cautiously' is there in every fight so I guess we'll just have to get used to him stinking out the WW title picture.
 
I think people are giving Woodley a bit too much stick here. If he's fighting a world class submission specialist, he is obviously going to do his best to keep the fight standing up. Conversely if Maia is fighting a great puncher, he's obviously going to spend most of the fight attempting to take Woodley down. If Dana doesn't like what happened he shouldn't have matched them up.
 
Dana should have kept his mouth shut about it

It was the right fight to make and was always likely to be an extremely hesitant affair.

And at least it wasn't the farce we saw a few years ago when Maia challenged Anderson Silva for the middleweight belt in Abu Dhabi
 
That division is now really going to feel the loss of Rory MacDonald.

Next time his contract is up they need to throw a big wad of cash his way
 
Randall Flagg said:
You didn't watch any of the undercard?

And just be You you don't like Jon jones doesn't make the card boring as feck
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Watched the whole main card.

Jones winning takes away from the fight. The feeling that the fight leaves you with trumps any excitement that might have been during the fight. A bit like being a Bayern fan in '99.

Another thing, I don't think that the fights went to the ground more than once overall. Night was shit was definitely shit. Cyborg+Woodley fight were more than half the night and those fights were terrible to watch, especially one after the other. So you've got a nice beginning with a 40sec KO followed by a decent fight only to be put to sleep for the next 2 hours. Manage to stay awake for the Jones fight where all hope and good in the world is crushed followed by way to gleeful and tactless Joe Rogan.

Plenty of eyepokes too on show so basically all the worst that the UFC has to offer was on show.
 
i don't know what you are talking about. Wasn't the best card ever, wasn't the worst. Some awesome fights, and some not so much.

Except for the Woodley/Maia fight, that was highly technical and not for the occasional fan obviously, there wasn't much wrong with the night.

anyway...



Gonna watch the contender series week 4 now...
 
The Bloody-Nine said:
I'm sorry, this is just nonsense. He had 15 stoppages in his first 20 fights. Go watch him fight Diego Corrales or Gatti and tell me he's boring.

His fights became 'boring' because of a combination of moving up in weight consistently and breaking his hands.
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Not what I meant. I watched Floyd on the come up. I was itching for the Prince Naseem fight to happen. He was phenomenal back then.

My attempted point was aimed at the period where he could no longer put people down, onwards.

The guy is a case study in marketing an unexciting product. He remains a phenomenal boxer. But as we all know, you watch a Mayweather fight and you're watching perfect defense with round winning punches thrown. That's where I was going with the Tyron comparison.

Woodley needs something external working for him. All power to the guy for planning well and executing perfectly. But he's got to play the other nonsensical angle a whole lot better. I don't think Tyron is ever going to just stand and bang with anyone just to sell the next fight. He will not risk the belt to go all guns blazing.

If he's not going to be exciting in the ring, he needs to step it up outside the ring.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Not what I meant. I watched Floyd on the come up. I was itching for the Prince Naseem fight to happen. He was phenomenal back then.

My attempted point was aimed at the period where he could no longer put people down, onwards.

The guy is a case study in marketing an unexciting product. He remains a phenomenal boxer. But as we all know, you watch a Mayweather fight and you're watching perfect defense with round winning punches thrown. That's where I was going with the Tyron comparison.

Woodley needs something external working for him. All power to the guy for planning well and executing perfectly. But he's got to play the other nonsensical angle a whole lot better. I don't think Tyron is ever going to just stand and bang with anyone just to sell the next fight. He will not risk the belt to go all guns blazing.

If he's not going to be exciting in the ring, he needs to step it up outside the ring.
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Can't argue with any of that. As you were, sir. :)
 
Lot of criticism of Woodley here but no real discussion on what an awful challenger Maia was - surely it's up to the challenger to go out and take the belt from the champ, no? Yet Maia couldn't get near him.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Not what I meant. I watched Floyd on the come up. I was itching for the Prince Naseem fight to happen. He was phenomenal back then.

My attempted point was aimed at the period where he could no longer put people down, onwards.

The guy is a case study in marketing an unexciting product. He remains a phenomenal boxer. But as we all know, you watch a Mayweather fight and you're watching perfect defense with round winning punches thrown. That's where I was going with the Tyron comparison.

Woodley needs something external working for him. All power to the guy for planning well and executing perfectly. But he's got to play the other nonsensical angle a whole lot better. I don't think Tyron is ever going to just stand and bang with anyone just to sell the next fight. He will not risk the belt to go all guns blazing.

If he's not going to be exciting in the ring, he needs to step it up outside the ring.
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I would argue that he doesn't have to do anything differently. He's the champ and he keeps beating all the contenders UFC are coughing up. Its actually refreshing to see a fighter behave in a professional and humble manner as opposed to the bottle throwing clown show the likes of McGregor have defecated into the MMA world over the past couple of years.
 
2cents said:
Lot of criticism of Woodley here but no real discussion on what an awful challenger Maia was - surely it's up to the challenger to go out and take the belt from the champ, no? Yet Maia couldn't get near him.
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Good point. Maia did feck all other than shoot about 50 times.
 
Raoul said:
I would argue that he doesn't have to do anything differently. He's the champ and he keeps beating all the contenders UFC are coughing up. Its actually refreshing to see a fighter behave in a professional and humble manner as opposed to the bottle throwing clown show the likes of McGregor have defecated into the MMA world over the past couple of years.
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While this runs contrary to what I suggested, I wish the UFC worked that way.

Dana is punishing a champ by feeding him fighters that the crowd won't get behind.

I'm pro Woodley & anti Dana in terms of how they're behaving. But they both seem to have drawn a line in terms how they will behave towards each other and they're retreating from it step by step, rather than coming closer together.

If Dana wants Woodley and the belt to fight excitingly then he needs to put him in against someone willing to go toe to toe with him.

If Woodley wants better fights all he can do is beat what's in front of him and hope that the 'Spectacle' that Dana wants comes up next.

All of the WWE dramas are so unnecessary now that the UFC is so big.
 
I'm on Woodley's side as well since Dana has a long history of getting a wild hair up his arse with certain individuals and then not letting it go for a long time. His beef with Yamasaki and Helwani immediately spring to mind. But also his issue with Holly Holm's manager and several other situations as well.

Ultimately, Woodley is being penalized for not being a showman which is ridiculous. If you want that sort of nonsense then WWE might be a better option.
 
You would be forgiven for giving the card a miss as there were a fair few unknowns. But it was a cracking card

No surprise the dullest fight of the night involved the 2 biggest names in Rashad and Alvey
 
Pretty much the wave of the future. superfights that go outside the division and occasionally outside the entire sport so that fighters can cash in.
 
UFC's main problem is creating stars. It's all well and good criticising fighters for taking money fights etc but in the same sentence most people will agree these fighters are paid pretty poorly for what they're doing (outside the very elite...you could even argue the top stars are underpaid as well.) I also think it's a bit premature to say they are occasionally fighting outside an entire sport when it's happened once.

I agree with the sentiment that the fight shouldn't be happening and GSP should of fought Woodley but equally it's a way of getting more exposure to potential big names of the future on a card with plenty of people watching. Unfortunately for Woodley his fight overwhelmingly stunk out the place on the 214 card which is rumoured to of done 850k buys, it will switch people off his next fight whoever he is lined up to fight. The 217 card is rumoured to have TJ vs. Cody on and if they put on a fight they're capable of doing it potentially makes them both big names of the future.

Again I agree the UFC has an issue with creating stars at the moment but this is potentially a way of doing it and we will have to see where it goes. I imagine it's an easier task than we make out to get people to part with their cash for PPV once a month. It's easier for us the UK with BT Sport being a good send we can watch every card as part of our subscription that's not the case elsewhere.
 
GSP without question deserves an immediate title shot. But for the Welterweight strap

Hate the way they have held up this division making this fight. But at least its official now and to be fair I will be looking forward to it. Im a big GSP fan
 
Superfights and fighters changing division though are hardly a new thing. Randy Couture went from Light heavy weight to heavy weight and back again. He also fought James Toney in what was a far bigger farce than Mac V May

Then of course they put GSP vs BJ Penn in a superfight years ago. Its really nothing new. There are plenty of examples.

The only real annoying thing for me as I said was the delay and holding the division
 
When this fight was first announced I was annoyed as it was holding up the division but now it actually makes sense.

Whittaker is out, Romero and Jacare are coming off losses, Weidman is 1-3 so needs another win or two and Rockhold is facing Branch.

The rightful challenger in this case should have been Mousasi but the UFC done fecked up in letting him leave.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
When this fight was first announced I was annoyed as it was holding up the division but now it actually makes sense.

Whittaker is out, Romero and Jacare are coming off losses, Weidman is 1-3 so needs another win or two and Rockhold is facing Branch.

The rightful challenger in this case should have been Mousasi but the UFC done fecked up in letting him leave.
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Agree with the rest of your post mate but re the bolded bit I think Whittaker did some out and say he could of made 217? He also said he's prepared to wait though. My guess is he's hoping GSP wins and then he gets the next big fight against him after it.

I think the UFC is pretty happy with the scenario about Whittaker, Romero and Jacare as well for what it's worth. He has big potential to be a star and is still young.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
When this fight was first announced I was annoyed as it was holding up the division but now it actually makes sense.

Whittaker is out, Romero and Jacare are coming off losses, Weidman is 1-3 so needs another win or two and Rockhold is facing Branch.

The rightful challenger in this case should have been Mousasi but the UFC done fecked up in letting him leave.
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Yeah that's the way I see it too. The problem is if GSP wins he's most likely retiring straight after so I wonder what the UFC will do then.

Silva vs Gastelum in November.

https://www.mmafighting.com/2017/8/...-kelvin-gastelum-agreed-upon-for-ufc-shanghai
 
Oggmonster said:
UFC's main problem is creating stars. It's all well and good criticising fighters for taking money fights etc but in the same sentence most people will agree these fighters are paid pretty poorly for what they're doing (outside the very elite...you could even argue the top stars are underpaid as well.) I also think it's a bit premature to say they are occasionally fighting outside an entire sport when it's happened once.

I agree with the sentiment that the fight shouldn't be happening and GSP should of fought Woodley but equally it's a way of getting more exposure to potential big names of the future on a card with plenty of people watching. Unfortunately for Woodley his fight overwhelmingly stunk out the place on the 214 card which is rumoured to of done 850k buys, it will switch people off his next fight whoever he is lined up to fight. The 217 card is rumoured to have TJ vs. Cody on and if they put on a fight they're capable of doing it potentially makes them both big names of the future.

Again I agree the UFC has an issue with creating stars at the moment but this is potentially a way of doing it and we will have to see where it goes. I imagine it's an easier task than we make out to get people to part with their cash for PPV once a month. It's easier for us the UK with BT Sport being a good send we can watch every card as part of our subscription that's not the case elsewhere.
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Its happened once only because its been allowed to happen once. Jimmy Manuwa also "called out" David Haye for a potential undercard bout on the Conor/Floyd card, and its obvious that the likes of Jones, GSP, Lesnar et al are keeping a keen eye on things so they may do the same.

As for creating stars, all of their stars were created without the intradivisional fights or fighting boxers, so all they have to do is find good fighters and develop them.
 
Raoul said:
Its happened once only because its been allowed to happen once. Jimmy Manuwa also "called out" David Haye for a potential undercard bout on the Conor/Floyd card, and its obvious that the likes of Jones, GSP, Lesnar et al are keeping a keen eye on things so they may do the same.

As for creating stars, all of their stars were created without the intradivisional fights or fighting boxers, so all they have to do is find good fighters and develop them.
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So by only allowing it to happen once then it doesn't really happen occasionally surely? Jimi Manuwa calling out David Haye is true but I've never heard anyone from the UFC even comment on it to be fair and it doesn't particularly look that close to happening.

I agree with your second point. I meant their way of creating stars was by having the likes of GSP fighting as he will clearly get eyes on the product and therefore if they stack the card it could help build new stars which seems a perfectly logical way of doing things.
 
MMA fighters and boxers have called eachother out previously too

Tyson Fury and Cain Valasquez had a tit for tat years ago

Roy Jones Jnr and Anderson Silva too

Its nothing to get worked up about and will not be a common theme
 
Oggmonster said:
So by only allowing it to happen once then it doesn't really happen occasionally surely? Jimi Manuwa calling out David Haye is true but I've never heard anyone from the UFC even comment on it to be fair and it doesn't particularly look that close to happening.

I agree with your second point. I meant their way of creating stars was by having the likes of GSP fighting as he will clearly get eyes on the product and therefore if they stack the card it could help build new stars which seems a perfectly logical way of doing things.
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The point is it shouldn't be happening at all. The McGregor/Mayweather fight is little more than a giant financial transaction masquerading as a sporting event. The fundamental problem with the UFC is its pay structure where fighters who are the loudest and brashest are incentivized to keep doing it because they get bigger paydays. Instead of doing it that way, they should make a standardized wage structure where each fighter with a belt makes a set amount and each challenger makes a set amount. That would take the WWE circus aspect out of it in a hurry.
 
Raoul said:
The point is it shouldn't be happening at all. The McGregor/Mayweather fight is little more than a giant financial transaction masquerading as a sporting event. The fundamental problem with the UFC is its pay structure where fighters who are the loudest and brashest are incentivized to keep doing it because they get bigger paydays. Instead of doing it that way, they should make a standardized wage structure where each fighter with a belt makes a set amount and each challenger makes a set amount. That would take the WWE circus aspect out of it in a hurry.
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Circus brings in bigger crowds. T that's what they want. Why would they put a stop to it?
 
Dirty Schwein said:
Circus brings in bigger crowds. T that's what they want. Why would they put a stop to it?
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Its not a sustainable business model. PPV based events will over time not make as much money since more and more people can view the events on free online streams. In addition to the bizarre WWE antics fighters are incentivized to employ to get bigger PPV numbers through points, the UFC should see the writing on the wall and create a better business model through advertising and also create a more equitable pay structure where all fighters are paid a solid wage, as opposed to the current lopsided model where people who throw water bottles at pressers get 100x more than people at the bottom of the card.
 
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