The MMA thread

RedFish said:
He's being smart, why do anything different. He dominated Maia, and respected Maia's strengths and kept it standing. No shame in that.
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He was clearly a bad match up for Maia. It took less than a round to figure that out. And when that happens its on Woodley to finish him.
Vato said:
What do you expect him to do? Try to knock Maia out then get taken down and get choked out?

feck that, if the matchmakers want action then just match him up against a brawler. Him vs Lawler was the perfect matchup, problem is such a fight will hardly ever last more than a round or two.
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Eh? You can stand and box someone like Maia without getting taken down. Just because Woodley refused to engage doesn't mean it can't be done.

Better and more rounded BJJ practitioners than Maia have been knocked out.
 
Vato said:
I actually love it when one dimensional fighters like Maia get shown up like that. How people can blame Woodley I'll never know.
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Agreed. Some just don't like him, and use any excuse to play down his achievements. Him actually admitting his opponents strengths and tailoring his tactics accordingly is what all fighters try to do to a certain extent, just not many have his sheer explosiveness. His takedown defence is incredible too.
 
RedFish said:
Cruz was purring over Woodley during the fight and said it was amazing to watch, or words to that effect. Who gives a toss what Rogan says or doesn't - counts for zero, although he's really annoying lol.

Cyborg was awesome. Cowboy was decent, but everytime I see him fight he loses!

Jones as brilliant as he ever was...thought the tribute to Cormier was a nice touch, came across as genuine and more so because it's true, Daniel is a classy guy.
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I agree. Jon really meant what he said you could hear in his voice that he was emotional. It took a DC to get Jon's life back on track and to get him back in the cage and I'm sure Jon Jones is thankful to DC for that.

DC is a nice guy and he's up there with the best there's ever been. His only two losses to date are against the greatest of all time. No shame in that.
 
Randall Flagg said:
As in lawlor and Woodley fought almost a year to the day ago. Lawlor was knocked out very quickly and hasn't fought since. A rematch was not on the cards, although after his win over cowboy he is back in contention
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Ah ok, I see what you're saying, I was well aware they had fought and Woodley knocked him out quickly. I was just saying that they should match him up against that type of fighter if they want action, not Lawler per se.
 
MannyB said:
He was clearly a bad match up for Maia. It took less than a round to figure that out. And when that happens its on Woodley to finish him.

Eh? You can stand and box someone like Maia without getting taken down. Just because Woodley refused to engage doesn't mean it can't be done.

Better and more rounded BJJ practitioners than Maia have been knocked out.
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Or maybe get Maia a striking coach to at least give Woodley something else to think about? How the hell is this just Woodley's fault?
 
RedFish said:
Agreed. Some just don't like him, and use any excuse to play down his achievements. Him actually admitting his opponents strengths and tailoring his tactics accordingly is what all fighters try to do to a certain extent, just not many have his sheer explosiveness. His takedown defence is incredible too.
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Yeah, maybe he should have tried rolling with Maia and submitted him, the boring bastard.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
I agree. Jon really meant what he said you could hear in his voice that he was emotional. It took a DC to get Jon's life back on track and to get him back in the cage and I'm sure Jon Jones is thankful to DC for that.

DC is a nice guy and he's up there with the best there's ever been. His only two losses to date are against the greatest of all time. No shame in that.
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Absolutely. The truth hurts and Jones needed to hear it. DC did Jones a favour, and Jones knows it. I'd even go as far as saying he may even not fight DC again because of the respect he has for him. ( I could be taking bullshit therw lol, but the stuff about being a model father, person etc and hopefully being more like him, sounded deeply felt. Takes some real courage and self reflection to say that to millions watching.
 
RedFish said:
Agreed. Some just don't like him, and use any excuse to play down his achievements. Him actually admitting his opponents strengths and tailoring his tactics accordingly is what all fighters try to do to a certain extent, just not many have his sheer explosiveness. His takedown defence is incredible too.
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You are overrating him. His strategy seems to be to nullify not only the opponents, but the fight too. He won by simply being able to keep the fight standing, not because he offered more offensively than Maia.

He took on a fighter with terrible striking and came away with the fewest strikes ever thrown in WW title fights. Thats pathetic.
 
MannyB said:
You are overrating him. His strategy seems to be to nullify not only the opponents, but the fight too. He won by simply being able to keep the fight standing, not because he offered more offensively than Maia.

He took on a fighter with terrible striking and came away with the fewest strikes ever thrown in WW title fights. Thats pathetic.
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You could say he gives too much respect to his opponents, or you could say he's a fecking smart fighter. Being reckless is one stupid way to lose fights , and you certainly can't accuse him if that. He doesn't give a shit if others find it entertaining, it was a masterclass in a lot of ways, but agreed it's not entertaining in a Diaz kind of way, but cerebrally it was excellent.
 
Vato said:
Or maybe get Maia a striking coach to at least give Woodley something else to think about? How the hell is this just Woodley's fault?
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Or maybe Woodley should up his BJJ game and 'beat the fighter at his own game", like he's been saying he done. I thought he said he's a better version of GSP?
Vato said:
Yeah, maybe he should have tried rolling with Maia and submitted him, the boring bastard.
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Or strike with him... You know, play to his strengths.
 
RedFish said:
You could say he gives too much respect to his opponents, or you could say he's a fecking smart fighter. Being reckless is one stupid way to lose fights , and you certainly can't accuse him if that. He doesn't give a shit if others find it entertaining, it was a masterclass in a lot of ways, but agreed it's not entertaining in a Diaz kind of way, but cerebrally it was excellent.
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I'm just going to assume you are new to MMA. It's not all about the win. Being reckless is stupid, but not engaging is a sure way to get kicked out of the organisation.
 
MannyB said:
Or strike with him... You know, play to his strengths.
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Erm... or Maia should have thought to do the same when he saw that his17th takedown went like shit like all of them before it. Oh that's right, he has no standup whatsoever...

Let's just blame the guy that achieved to successfully do what the other couldn't. :wenger:
 
Vato said:
MannyB where your thoughts on GSP and his approach to fights?
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No problem with it. Incredibly well rounded fighter. Strike, wrestle and BJJ. All at a high level. Could have even more finishes though.
 
Vato said:
Erm... or Maia should have thought to do the same when he saw that his17th takedown went like shit like all of them before it. Oh that's right, he has no standup whatsoever...

Let's just blame the guy that achieved to successfully do what the other couldn't. :wenger:
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We established Maia's striking is shite earlier. Why did the Champ not take advantage of it? Add an easy KO to resume.
 
RedFish said:
I know it's not, the fact Maia' s so good but unable to take it to ground shows how good Woodley is at keeping it standing. That deserves credit....
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I agree

Woodley did what he felt he had to do. It worked

Doesn't take away from Maia being one of the best BJJ lads in the UFC
 
MannyB said:
I'm just going to assume you are new to MMA. It's not all about the win. Being reckless is stupid, but not engaging is a sure way to get kicked out of the organisation.
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Dana's critical of many fighters that don't deserve it imo. Mighty mouse being just one other example. Doesn't mean he's right....I'm not a hardcore MMA fan, that's fair enough. I stand to be corrected and educated :)
 
MannyB said:
We established Maia's striking is shite earlier. Why did the Champ not take advantage of it? Add an easy KO to resume.
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Because he had to avoid grappling as much as possible.... to have his best chance of winning, which he did flawlessly.

Try to look at it like this; One fighter executed his gameplan to a tee and the
other failed at it miserably. It's baffling that some people can blame the guy who hasn't put a foot wrong, truly baffling.
 
Boring as shit to watch, but hard to blame the guy for executing a flawless, easy win. Especially without taking any proper damage, their careers are short and risky enough.
 
Vato said:
Because he had to avoid grappling as much as possible.... to have his best chance of winning, which he did flawlessly.

Try to look at it like this; One fightere executed his gameplan to a tee and the
other failed at it miserably. It's baffling that some people can blame the guy who hasn't put a foot wrong, truly baffling.
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I find it weird that people would blame either fighter tbh. I mean even when we say Maia failed, it's not like if I was his coach I'd have said "cut this BJJ bullshit, start flaking in head kicks".

Both fighters knew what their best chance of winning was, both tried to do that, one succeeded. At no point was either of them wrong to play to their strengths. I get that it didn't result in an amazing fight (though those tactical, technical fights can be very interesting sometimes) but that's just the way fighting works.
 
MannyB said:
No problem with it. Incredibly well rounded fighter. Strike, wrestle and BJJ. All at a high level. Could have even more finishes though.
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Also this, I don't even know where to begin.

You clearly have some bias against woodly as the main criticism of gsp was that he didn't try to finish fights against guys he easily could.

Some double standards there from you.
 
Earthquake said:
Boring as shit to watch, but hard to blame the guy for executing a flawless, easy win. Especially without taking any proper damage, their careers are short and risky enough.
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Spot on. Well.. actually not completely on as I enjoyed the takedown defense fest.
 
justboy68 said:
What was so dull apart from the co-main event? It was a good card overall and Jones finished Cormier in spectacular fashion.
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Cyborg fight was an awful watch. Watching Jones win is far from fun.

Woodley fight was like half of the fight time so the majority was a dull watch.

So 20 seconds to begin with and then the 2nd fight was ok. Rest was shit.
 
Raoul said:
Not sure what this even means. My statement on Manuwa was pretty straight forward. He was being irrationally hyped up as a title contender and was humiliated in 42 seconds by a newb.
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I take you you're familiar with the 'newb' and his credentials? Not to mention the team he fights with?
 
RedFish said:
You could say he gives too much respect to his opponents, or you could say he's a fecking smart fighter. Being reckless is one stupid way to lose fights , and you certainly can't accuse him if that. He doesn't give a shit if others find it entertaining, it was a masterclass in a lot of ways, but agreed it's not entertaining in a Diaz kind of way, but cerebrally it was excellent.
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Earthquake said:
Boring as shit to watch, but hard to blame the guy for executing a flawless, easy win. Especially without taking any proper damage, their careers are short and risky enough.
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The reason Woodley fights the way he does now is this:



It fundamentally changed him as a fighter and made him the tactician we see now. It amazes me that people slate him for the way he fights when he's already learned the hard way to approach fights in the most economical and pragmatic way possible.

That, and knowing this is his one and only chance to make bigger money (knowing White will not put him in good fights if he loses the strap) should be enough for people to understand things from his perspective.

The onus is on the UFC to matchmake - styles make fights, so give him an opponent who he has to mix it with if that's what you want to see.
 
Snow said:
Cyborg fight was an awful watch. Watching Jones win is far from fun.

Woodley fight was like half of the fight time so the majority was a dull watch.

So 20 seconds to begin with and then the 2nd fight was ok. Rest was shit.
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You didn't watch any of the undercard?

And just be You you don't like Jon jones doesn't make the card boring as feck
 
I found the Woodley fight boring but cut the guy some slack for feck sake.

The guy has fought 4 championship fights in one year, with one first round KO and another that was fight of the night in a stacked card.
 
Vato said:
Also this, I don't even know where to begin.

You clearly have some bias against woodly as the main criticism of gsp was that he didn't try to finish fights against guys he easily could.

Some double standards there from you.
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How can I have double standards/bias when I've criticised GSP for not finishing more of his fights in the very post you quoted?

GSP could execute any game plan he wanted, yet in title fights he's stood with Condit, out wrestled Koscheck, out wrestled then submitted Hughes when that was unheard of, out grappled and out boxed BJ Penn and so on. And when he felt he needed to nullify his opponent strengths, you still had a champ willing to make a fight of it even if it did end up going the full 25 minutes.

GSP never coasted a fight like Woodley has done and he was never so afraid of his opponents strengths to not engage. He was criticised for boring fights so I don't see why Woodley shouldn't be criticised.
Vato said:
Because he had to avoid grappling as much as possible.... to have his best chance of winning, which he did flawlessly.

Try to look at it like this; One fighter executed his gameplan to a tee and the
other failed at it miserably. It's baffling that some people can blame the guy who hasn't put a foot wrong, truly baffling.
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Well that is part of the problem. His game plan was to stuff any attempt from Maia to win the fight, rather than look to grab a decisive win of his own even after it became clear that Maia had nothing for him in the boxing department. His attitude was so risk averse that he couldn't adapt his game plan to take advantage of his boxing.

No one asked him to use his wrestling to take Maia to the mat. But as a champ, he has to put in a performance against a clearly mismatched opponent.
 
RedFish said:
Agreed. Some just don't like him, and use any excuse to play down his achievements. Him actually admitting his opponents strengths and tailoring his tactics accordingly is what all fighters try to do to a certain extent, just not many have his sheer explosiveness. His takedown defence is incredible too.
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Tyron has an issue with perception. Nothing else.

Mayweather was the most boring fighter on the planet. Nobody wanted to see Pretty Boy Floyd fight.

Then he repackaged as the villain 'Money Mayweather' and people pay to watch to see him lose. He is just as boring as he ever was. No knockout power. No risk taking. He's the greatest. But not the greatest all round.

Tyron needs to take a leaf out of that book.

Dana runs the UFC like WWE. Everyone knows it. No logical fight making. It's just money.

Had Tyron grabbed the mic and said some stupid shit like "I barely had to sweat or throw a punch to beat Maia... I have a plan for everyone. I'm better than Conor when it comes to planning. When he's done getting beat up by Floyd I'll have a plan for him too" he'd have got some traction. There's truth there. It demonstrates a sound head and explains away a boring fight.

Trying to rise above it just makes him dislikable as well as boring. He's gotta give the bald Vince MacMahon something to market. The guy has no interest in creating a better product so you have to play his game. Sadly.
 
Fortitude said:
The onus is on the UFC to matchmake - styles make fights, so give him an opponent who he has to mix it with if that's what you want to see.
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The problem with that is that Dana and UFC will get accused of only giving star names title fights.

Damian Maia was worth a shot at the title after going 7 fights undefeated, 10-2 since moving to WW five years ago.
 
MannyB said:
The problem with that is that Dana and UFC will get accused of only giving star names title fights.

Damian Maia was worth a shot at the title after going 7 fights undefeated, 10-2 since moving to WW five years ago.
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You/They can't have it both ways. Woodley is a straight-down-the-middle-fighter and he will always fight cautiously now if the opportunity to do so is there.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Tyron has an issue with perception. Nothing else.

Mayweather was the most boring fighter on the planet. Nobody wanted to see Pretty Boy Floyd fight.

Then he repackaged as the villain 'Money Mayweather' and people pay to watch to see him lose. He is just as boring as he ever was. No knockout power. No risk taking. He's the greatest. But not the greatest all round.

Tyron needs to take a leaf out of that book.

Dana runs the UFC like WWE. Everyone knows it. No logical fight making. It's just money.

Had Tyron grabbed the mic and said some stupid shit like "I barely had to sweat or throw a punch to beat Maia... I have a plan for everyone. I'm better than Conor when it comes to planning. When he's done getting beat up by Floyd I'll have a plan for him too" he'd have got some traction. There's truth there. It demonstrates a sound head and explains away a boring fight.

Trying to rise above it just makes him dislikable as well as boring. He's gotta give the bald Vince MacMahon something to market. The guy has no interest in creating a better product so you have to play his game. Sadly.
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This is my thought exactly. He should do a heel promo and after he finished, put on the shades, give the crowd the middle finger and even slap Dana's baldy head on the way out.

Maybe even grab an octagon girl and toss her over his shoulder and walk into the sunset :lol:
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Tyron has an issue with perception. Nothing else.

Mayweather was the most boring fighter on the planet. Nobody wanted to see Pretty Boy Floyd fight.
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I'm sorry, this is just nonsense. He had 15 stoppages in his first 20 fights. Go watch him fight Diego Corrales or Gatti and tell me he's boring.

His fights became 'boring' because of a combination of moving up in weight consistently and breaking his hands.
 
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