The MMA thread

Raoul said:
The point is it shouldn't be happening at all. The McGregor/Mayweather fight is little more than a giant financial transaction masquerading as a sporting event. The fundamental problem with the UFC is its pay structure where fighters who are the loudest and brashest are incentivized to keep doing it because they get bigger paydays. Instead of doing it that way, they should make a standardized wage structure where each fighter with a belt makes a set amount and each challenger makes a set amount. That would take the WWE circus aspect out of it in a hurry.
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I don't disagree t shouldn't be happening in fairness (it doesn't bother me it is though I'm quite looking forward to it) I just disagree with it being a regular occurrence we don't know that for certain when it's happened once.


Whilst I agree with the sentiment of pay and have echoed the same myself how would you propose your way works? Someone like DJ does terrible PPV numbers. Less than every champion so surely it's not logical if they have a set structure for him and he's equal to others? Even take away the brash ones people like Woodley, Stipe etc all do better numbers so surely they should get more money? They're rewarded for income they generate to the business that seems fair enough. The personalities equally get opportunities away from ufc cos of how they are so if prob wouldn't work cos they'd still get money from doing it.
 
They're projecting just over 800k for that ppv which seems a bit low for such a stacked card?
 
I think DC needs to move up to heavyweight, he looked horrible at the weighings last time. At 38 it can't be easy for him to cut that much weight.
 
Ballache said:
I think DC needs to move up to heavyweight, he looked horrible at the weighings last time. At 38 it can't be easy for him to cut that much weight.
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Realistically, I think its going to be hard for him to continue to motivate himself for these big fights. The body at 40 is just not the same as at 30-35. He may want to do one more fight against a top LHW contender and if he wins, try one final go against Jones and after that call it quits and just do full time commentating.
 
From a fans point of view I've got no desire seeing DC vs. Jones III. He's been soundly beaten twice now and clearly isn't on that level. As @Raoul rightly points out the body is a factor. He usually looks like death during a weight cut but looked awful vs. Jones and missed weight vs. Rumble. A stint at heavyweight may be interesting for a few fights but with his age I just don't see much left for him to give.
 
Oggmonster said:
From a fans point of view I've got no desire seeing DC vs. Jones III. He's been soundly beaten twice now and clearly isn't on that level. As @Raoul rightly points out the body is a factor. He usually looks like death during a weight cut but looked awful vs. Jones and missed weight vs. Rumble. A stint at heavyweight may be interesting for a few fights but with his age I just don't see much left for him to give.
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Yeah good point. I don't think most fans would be interested in Jones-DC 3 after 2 ended the way it did. Same with Woodley-Wonderboy.

I do think a lot of fans would like to see Conor-Nate 3 though.
 
he was heavyweight and dropped down because Cain was champ

Cain is nowhere to be seen, DC should really move back up
 
Raoul said:
Yeah good point. I don't think most fans would be interested in Jones-DC 3 after 2 ended the way it did. Same with Woodley-Wonderboy.

I do think a lot of fans would like to see Conor-Nate 3 though.
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Jesus imagine Woodley vs Wonderboy 3! I actually remember thinking the first one was quite good but when watching back it just had a couple of good moments. The second was terrible though.

There's a couple divisions in similar conundrums really.

Light Heavyweight has Jones as clear Number 1 and has beaten DC (Nr 2) twice so I can't really see there being much of a desire for a rematch after it being so recent.

Women's straw weight has Joanna number 1 and Gadelha Nr 2 and again she's beaten her twice (albeit nr 1 is controversial)

Flyweight has DJ number 1 and Benavidez nr 2 and again he's beaten him twice...the second time in a Round 1 knockout.

Out of the 3 I'd probably like to see DJ vs. Benavidez again but the others personally don't really interest me massively for a while yet. There's some divisions we've all spoken about as well at a crossroads to, welterweight has had Woodley have 2 fairly dull fights vs. Thompson and 1 horror show vs. Maia which leaves Lawler who he KOed or Masvidal coming off a loss to Maia. Heavyweight has seemingly had everyone fight each other a load of times as well.

If DC were to go up to heavyweight could there be a case for an immediate title shot?

Agree re Conor and Nate as well. I suppose being 1-1 makes it far more appealing as the 3rd fight is the decider and both fighters were hugely entertaining especially the second.
 
Fights i'd like to see:

Ferguson v Khabib
Conor v Nate 3
Garbrandt v Cruz 2
Holloway v Aldo 2
Oezdemir v Gustaffson
Miocic v Ngannou

Shevchenko v Holm 2
 
I'd be happy to see Jones/Cormier III happen at some stage down the line. Both fights (the second more so) were very good and it's a great heated rivalry. I always like to look at "what if's" in sports and I think there's a case for that in that second fight. Cormier was arguably up two rounds (debatable, maybe 1-1) before he got finished in the third. It's not as if it's not even close and DC was utterly dominated in the second fight. I think if he can win one/two fights then I'd be happy to see him fight Jones one final time. I wasn't sure how he'd feel after the loss but he seems very set on continuing to fight.

The most important thing for me though is that Gus now get's his rematch against Jones. Forget the Lesnar shit, it's ridiculous that it's been over three years since that first fight.

A few I'd like to see:

Gus/Jones 2
Garbrandt/Dillashaw or Garbrandt/Cruz 2
Ferguson/McGregor
Namajunas/Joanna
 
paulscholes18 said:
Jones V Lesnar
Conor V Nate III
Cyborg V Rousey
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Jones Lesnar doesn't appeal to me at all. Lesnar should never be allowed to fight in the UFC again.

Rousey Cyborg obviously wont happen since Rousey is mentally destroyed and Cyborg wont be in the bantamweight division anytime soon.
 
Khabib vs Tony
TJ vs Cody
Edgar vs Holloway

2 fights that interest me the most at the moment, agree with few others like Conor vs Nate 3, Gus vs Jones 2 bit the fact we've never seen them 3 fights (and got close to 2 of them) is something that intrigues me. Think Cody vs TJ in particular has potential to be a really interesting match up.
 
Oggmonster said:
Khabib vs Tony
TJ vs Cody
Edgar vs Holloway

2 fights that interest me the most at the moment, agree with few others like Conor vs Nate 3, Gus vs Jones 2 bit the fact we've never seen them 3 fights (and got close to 2 of them) is something that intrigues me. Think Cody vs TJ in particular has potential to be a really interesting match up.
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I'd like to see Gus fight Oezdemir and the winner fight Jones.

I actually think Rumble, if he comes back, could knock Jones out.
 
Raoul said:
I'd like to see Gus fight Oezdemir and the winner fight Jones.

I actually think Rumble, if he comes back, could knock Jones out.
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Yeah that's another good fight as well...also makes LHW scene a bit more interesting even if just 1 extra fight.

Agree re rumble as well was looking forward to that match up before Jones prevented it happening.
 
El Cucuy vs Kevin Lee for the interim belt at UFC #216

what a fight! Kevin Lee is one of the physically strongest of the division. When he puts his hands on you you are in for a ride.

But el Cucuy is a much complete fighter and i expect him to get the W.
 
Can't see Kevin Lee doing much against Ferguson. Shame the Khabib fight seemingly won't happen for Ferguson as it was an interesting match up. Despite the interim stuff it still wouldn't surprise me if Khabib got McGregor next.
 
Conor apparently wants to fight Khabib in Russia. Not sure if that would work in terms of U.S. PPV times but it would be a great fight.
 
Raoul said:
Conor apparently wants to fight Khabib in Russia. Not sure if that would work in terms of U.S. PPV times but it would be a great fight.
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Who would you have it that one? I reckon both Ferguson and Conor beat Khabib personally.

I suppose timing wise they'd potentially do another Bisping vs. Henderson and have it on dead late Russian time although I wouldn't be surprised if they brought it forward slightly to accomodate a potentially big Russian market.
 
Oggmonster said:
Who would you have it that one? I reckon both Ferguson and Conor beat Khabib personally.

I suppose timing wise they'd potentially do another Bisping vs. Henderson and have it on dead late Russian time although I wouldn't be surprised if they brought it forward slightly to accomodate a potentially big Russian market.
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Its always a matter of where the fight takes place. Ferguson imo, has both great standup and ground games so he would be favored. Conor's ground game is decent but not great which is why he kept telling Nate to get up when he knocked him down. If Khabib takes either one down, he would probably win. If its all standup then I'd go with Conor or Ferguson.
 
I don't think Tony has great stand up at all and I'm a fan of his. He gets hit far too often against mediocre fighters.
 
Raoul said:
I'd like to see Gus fight Oezdemir and the winner fight Jones.

I actually think Rumble, if he comes back, could knock Jones out.
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Rumble could knock anybody out if he catches them right, but look how easy Cormier manhandled him once he got him down. Jones will kick him to death and then grabble him to the floor and submit him in no time. That reach just won't let rumble get close, especially if he's not got the heart for it anymore.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Rumble could knock anybody out if he catches them right, but look how easy Cormier manhandled him once he got him down. Jones will kick him to death and then grabble him to the floor and submit him in no time. That reach just won't let rumble get close, especially if he's not got the heart for it anymore.
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Cormier was a one off with Rumble. Jones would have a lot more trouble with him because he's a bit attack minded and would leave himself exposed. Look at Jones v OSP - Jones was languid throughout because he later admitted he was concerned about getting clipped by OSP. Rumble is a much harder and more advanced puncher than OSP, so the problem would be much worse for Jones. Reach won't help him much since Gustaffson's reach didn't do much good against Rumble.
 
cyberman said:
I don't think Tony has great stand up at all and I'm a fan of his. He gets hit far too often against mediocre fighters.
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This is why I think Lee is going to be a tough fight for him. Lee's athleticism and explosiveness could give Tony a lot of problems. If Lee wins, he should fight either Conor or Khabib.
 
Raoul said:
Its always a matter of where the fight takes place. Ferguson imo, has both great standup and ground games so he would be favored. Conor's ground game is decent but not great which is why he kept telling Nate to get up when he knocked him down. If Khabib takes either one down, he would probably win. If its all standup then I'd go with Conor or Ferguson.
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Yeah fair comments, I would back Khabib on the ground definitely against Conor but it's just whether he got him there.

I like Lee, think he's got a bright future just think this fight is to soon for him, he's beaten 1 ranked fighter (Nr 9) and that's it really. If he was to win it would be a huge upset and rise to a potential massive pay day.
 
Raoul said:
This is why I think Lee is going to be a tough fight for him. Lee's athleticism and explosiveness could give Tony a lot of problems. If Lee wins, he should fight either Conor or Khabib.
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The problem for strikers is Conor training 24/7 for a fight with Mayweather. His already elite class MMA boxing will be other worldly when he returns, especially if he can add a boxercise like gas tank after all of this.
If Tony were to stand with someone like that then he is in trouble but Tony just loves to fight, he'll want to stand and trade punches even before Conor goads him into doing so.
 
cyberman said:
The problem for strikers is Conor training 24/7 for a fight with Mayweather. His already elite class MMA boxing will be other worldly when he returns, especially if he can add a boxercise like gas tank after all of this.
If Tony were to stand with someone like that then he is in trouble but Tony just loves to fight, he'll want to stand and trade punches even before Conor goads him into doing so.
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The boxing won't help him much in MMA imo, as he's already one of the better boxers around. You can't employ overly sophisticated boxing methods in MMA anyway, as you will then open yourself up to getting taken down. Look at Mayweather's style for example. If anyone in MMA tried that, a good jiu-jitsu practitioner would have them on the ground in no time. Conor needs to work on his ground game if he wants to improve in MMA (as in, not have a repeat of what happend against Nate).
 
Raoul said:
The boxing won't help him much in MMA imo, as he's already one of the better boxers around. You can't employ overly sophisticated boxing methods in MMA anyway, as you will then open yourself up to getting taken down. Look at Mayweather's style for example. If anyone in MMA tried that, a good jiu-jitsu practitioner would have them on the ground in no time. Conor needs to work on his ground game if he wants to improve in MMA (as in, not have a repeat of what happend against Nate).
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I don't think he needs to, as he'll just avoid fights with Nurmagomedov and the like. I really want to see Conor against Ferguson.
 
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RedFish said:
I don't think he needs to, as he'll just avoid fights with Nurmagomedov and the like. I really want to see Conor against Ferguson.
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He doesn't need to avoid Khabib since he doesn't deserve to be in the title picture
 
Raoul said:
Khabib doesn't deserve to be in the title picture ?
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Fighting cans, pulled out of Tony fight and now Tony has revealed he has turned down two offers of a fight, all the while talking shut about everyone and anyone.
Khabib is a fraud and a myth at this stage. His plan of simply waiting for Conor will not work but the myth will continue to grow.
 
cyberman said:
Fighting cans, pulled out of Tony fight and now Tony has revealed he has turned down two offers of a fight, all the while talking shut about everyone and anyone.
Khabib is a fraud and a myth at this stage. His plan of simply waiting for Conor will not work but the myth will continue to grow.
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He's undefeated, is officially the #1 contender in the division, and is widely regarded as one of the best fighters in the UFC. Of course he deserves to be in the title picture.

Its a bit like saying Jones didn't deserve to be in the title picture because he get into legal and USADA trouble. He's still undefeated and considered the best fighter in the sport. Khabib is no different in that regard, which is why Conor apparently wants to fight him in Russia.
 
Raoul said:
He's undefeated, is officially the #1 contender in the division, and is widely regarded as one of the best fighters in the UFC. Of course he deserves to be in the title picture.

Its a bit like saying Jones didn't deserve to be in the title picture because he get into legal and USADA trouble. He's still undefeated and considered the best fighter in the sport. Khabib is no different in that regard, which is why Conor apparently wants to fight him in Russia.
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He's fought 3 times in 3 years, wasn't professional enough to make weight (twice now?) and is turning down dates for a re schduled date because he wants to wait for a title shot. Reporter rankings means nothing and Dana has admitted as much.
Khabib and his team have fecked themselves. The self entitlement is ridiculious.I'd dodge Tony as well but I wouldn't be expected to be rewarded for it
 
cyberman said:
He's fought 3 times in 3 years, wasn't professional enough to make weight (twice now?) and is turning down dates for a re schduled date because he wants to wait for a title shot. Reporter rankings means nothing and Dana has admitted as much.
Khabib and his team have fecked themselves. The self entitlement is ridiculious.I'd dodge Tony as well but I wouldn't be expected to be rewarded for it
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You think he deliberately got sick so he wouldn't have to fight Ferguson ? Interesting.

These are the official UFC rankings. White uses them when it suits his agenda to promote or overlook a fighter and ignores them when he wants to do the same, so that means little.

Love or hate him, he's still an undefeated fighter who is widely acknowledged as one of the best sambo/wrestlers in the game. Until someone beats him, he will always be in the title picture. Its obvious Dana is giving Lee the interim fight because he's pissed at Khabib for the last fight. Its not exactly a bad thing to have the likes of Khabib/Ferguson/Lee in the mix for who fights Conor next.
 
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