People don't want to see GSP fight a scrub like Bisping. They actually want him to fight someone in GSP's category, like Lawler. Bisping needs to fight people in his own division, and not ones of his own choosing. He obviously doesn't want to fight Rockhold again or Weidman because he knows it would end his improbable run. He probably doesn't want to fight Jacare or Romero since the outcome would be the same. This is why he has been paired with an ageing Dan Henderson.
The MMA thread
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
People don't want to see GSP fight a scrub like Bisping. They actually want him to fight someone in GSP's category, like Lawler. Bisping needs to fight people in his own division, and not ones of his own choosing. He obviously doesn't want to fight Rockhold again or Weidman because he knows it would end his improbable run. He probably doesn't want to fight Jacare or Romero since the outcome would be the same. This is why he has been paired with an ageing Dan Henderson.
I agree, this is a problem but major orgs should be working with fighters once they are signed to get them clean ahead of their first fight. It shouldn't be used as an excuse to put doped up fighters into a sport that needs cleaning up.
There is a strong culture of PED use in the sport that makes this line of thinking somewhat justified, and that in itself is fecked up. Usually the culture at the top sport filters down to the lower levels so in that sense the extensive testing can only be positive. A clean UFC can only mean a cleaner minors.
The way random PED testing is going, you are far more likely to develop a rep for having a PED problem and lose money that way through big fights and sponsorships (I would hope). You'll be tarnishing your career before its even begun.
I agree to an extent. More money for lesser known UFC fighters could help clean the higher levels of sport.
Is that really an excuse? If your not making enough money, maybe you should save your braincells, retire and work a 9-5. No one has a right to be a high level MMA fighter anymore than you or I have a right to play for United.
People don't care though. Everybody knows Brock was juiced yet still tune in to see him. Heck WWE are a billion dollar company and their stars are walking pharmacies.
If Jones somehow got out of his UFC contract and went to a rival organisation we would all watch his fights.
This is very dangerous for the UFC. Who thought Pride would fall when they ruled the roost?
If Brock was tested at the same time Jones was then his two main events for their biggest ever card would have been changed with 3 days notice. It's pure chance that it wasn't.
If Jones somehow got out of his UFC contract and went to a rival organisation we would all watch his fights.
This is very dangerous for the UFC. Who thought Pride would fall when they ruled the roost?
If Brock was tested at the same time Jones was then his two main events for their biggest ever card would have been changed with 3 days notice. It's pure chance that it wasn't.
You do realise both Griffin and Bonnar used PEDs right?
Accepting PED use would only de-legitimise the sport. USADA is doing a good job, it seems. Long may that continue.
I wonder if they could improve the timing though? A fighter getting caught isn't a problem but a fighter getting caught days before/after an event they fought in is. The likes of DC and Hunt have done nothing wrong in this scenario but still suffer negative consequences.
I wonder if they could improve the timing though? A fighter getting caught isn't a problem but a fighter getting caught days before/after an event they fought in is. The likes of DC and Hunt have done nothing wrong in this scenario but still suffer negative consequences.
Why would you want it legitimised? It's never going to be "legitimate" And so what, it's entertainment.
The reality is like Chael Sonnen said, "This is the most unsophisticated and un-well-thought-out thing you need to do in life. Two half-naked men are going to get into a steel cage and fight for the applause of a drunken rowdy crowd in Houston, Texas, on Saturday night. We don't need a plan for this."
Let's cut the crap here, it's a totally barbaric sport, where 2 guys try and beat the living shit out of each other. The more violent and bloody the better. You can try and argue otherwise, but only last week we saw the crowd booing when Cormier wanted wrestle Anderson. They wanted to see a fight! They didn't want to see one guy use his skills to get a "win". If you want competitive architecture and structure, than prize fighting just isn't for you. If you take away the fans who just want to see a bad ass fight, then the sport collapses as pay per view sales will tank, venues will only have a few hundred fans in them and fighters will earn nothing. At the end the day this isn't tennis. The truth is the vast majority of fans want to see two guys, preferably who hate each other, have a scrap. I watch football for legitimate sport. MMA is to sport what porn is to the movie industry. I like porn!
They should just test like the NBA and NFL does.
Funnily enough, I didn't thought about it beforehand. It's when the fight started that I asked myself how Brock passed the drugs test.
Why do I want it legitimised? Because I prefer actual sports over mindless, no standards brawling. You say it's never going to be legit, yet that's exactly the direction the sport has been moving in over the last few years, gradually becoming more and more mainstream. That's how it hit the 4 billion valuation mark.
Sounds like you're being left behind by what MMA is becoming and it's only going to move further from your ideal as time goes on.
No I didn't.
Sorry but that's total rubbish. Buy rates for UFC events aren't any higher now than they were 5 years ago. The biggest selling events in recent years have involved Conor Mcgregor, a complete smack talker, who is an exciting fighter to watch. The biggest pay per view this year was Mcgregor fighting Diaz, in a non title fight, in a division 2 weights up from his normal. They paid their money to see a fist fight and when the loud mouth got beaten the crowd went wild when the pot head victor declared "I'm not surprised motherfeckers!" Not exactly "The Open" is it?
The UFC is about entertainment, hence it's sales and value depend on stars and story lines etc, not the competitive architecture of a "legtitmiate sport." Bisping v Henderson 2 has just been announced for a reason and it's not because Dana White doesn't know what he's doing.
So MVP knocked out Cyborg then decided to throw a pokeball at him 
The UFC has got to be calling soon.
The UFC has got to be calling soon.
So MVP knocked out Cyborg then decided to throw a pokeball at him
The UFC has got to be calling soon.
Fecking brilliant.Pride's demise was for more fatal reasons (TV deal, Japanese interest, Yakuza) and it didn't have the same popularity as the UFC has today. As of right now, MMA is still a fecking freak show that the mainstream can't take seriously, with its stars regularly being busted for PEDs, drugs and hit and runs, and where a roided up WWE wrestler can come in and reach the pinnacle of the sport in three fights.
More people would be drawn to the UFC if it was legitimised, cleaned up and ran as a sport with more regard for fighter health. Think of it as another stage of the evolution of the sport in the same way it had to evolve following its early days. It might loose some of the 'just bleed' and the WWE crowd like @redmeister but it would draw in a hell of a lot more.
Well thats one way of spinning fan sentiment. I'm pretty sure fans were mostly pissed when Diaz/McGregor 2 was announced same to for Bisping/Hendo 2 when Jacre was available.
And the UFC operates a different model to 5 years ago. Talent has to be split between PPV, Fox and Fight pass. The total viewership will far exceed that of 5 years ago as will the UFC valuation.
As far as McGregor/Diaz 1 goes, it was was welcomed for a number of reasons (rescued 196, travelling Irish, casual's interest in a fight at 155). The fight pulled in the numbers because McGregor has a massive following and was on a high (Aldo), and the Diaz brothers have their own following after years of being featured on free TV. Two big smack talkers with fans from different demographics played a big part in boosting the numbers, not the freak show element. And despite Diaz/McGregor being such an entertaining fight, fans were still pissed when Diaz/McGregor 2 was announced, what with Edgar being a legitimate challenger at 145.
Bisping-Hendo is fight no one wants to see. But it will draw viewers because Bisping and Hendo are big names in their own right, and a vastly bigger draw when you put their names together. Yet the immediate complaints were that the Jacre fight isn't happening. Sure, Dana knows what he's doing, buts it's purely a money making title fight before Hendo retires.
PPV sales only tell part of the story. The reaction to the Diaz/McGregor and Bisping/Hendo announcements are prime examples of fans showing their displeasure at the way the sport is run and the illegitimacy of the matchmaking, but in both instances fans of the fighters will still tune in as will the hard cores.
So MVP knocked out Cyborg then decided to throw a pokeball at him
The UFC has got to be calling soon.
Quality.Cyborg has a fractured skull from that flying knee
Holy shit
Holy shit
Saw this last night and thought it looked really bad when he had hands in his head. John McCarthy said its the hardest knee he's ever seen.
Walked straight into it as well. One of the cut men said it's an injury you would normally see from a bad car crash.
The sound was horrible.
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Fecking scary.
#Repost @criscyborg ・・・ Fight fans Please say a prayer for me Ex husband Cyborg Santos. Many of you watched him fight on Spike TV this weekend when he suffered this injury while fighting in London. Cyborg is still in the hospital in the UK, and they are not sure when he will be able to fly again. He has not had surgery yet and their is worry the brain can continue to swell causing more damage. @bellatormma is suppose to be responsible for all medical procedures needed to fix this injury from the fight, however Cyborg is going to be unable to work for sometime and we will be putting together a #gofundme for Fight fans wishing To sponsor him And his Family at this dificulta time. Thank you God for your protecion, The dr said this very Easily could have been life threatening. Please show your support for the fighters and share! Fãs de luta façam uma prece para o meu ex marido Cyborg Santos ,muitos de vocês assistiram ontem a luta dele na Spike TV,onde ele sofreu este ferimento enquanto lutava em Londres ,ele ainda está no hospital e não tem certeza quando ele vai poder voar de volta pra casa, @bellatormma é responsável por todo procedimentos médicos que ele precisar para resolver este problema porém ele não vai poder trabalhar por um tempo e nós vamos arrecadar ajuda pra ele através do #gofundme para os fãs patrocinarem ele e sua família nesta hora difícil, Obrigada Deus por sua proteção!! O medico disse que ele corre risco de vida,mostrem seu apoio aos lutadores e compartilhem isto!!! #GodToGlory #figtherlife #teamcyborg #evangelistacyborgsantos
#Repost @criscyborg ・・・ Fight fans Please say a prayer for me Ex husband Cyborg Santos. Many of you watched him fight on Spike TV this weekend when he suffered this injury while fighting in London. Cyborg is still in the hospital in the UK, and they are not sure when he will be able to fly again. He has not had surgery yet and their is worry the brain can continue to swell causing more damage. @bellatormma is suppose to be responsible for all medical procedures needed to fix this injury from the fight, however Cyborg is going to be unable to work for sometime and we will be putting together a #gofundme for Fight fans wishing To sponsor him And his Family at this dificulta time. Thank you God for your protecion, The dr said this very Easily could have been life threatening. Please show your support for the fighters and share! Fãs de luta façam uma prece para o meu ex marido Cyborg Santos ,muitos de vocês assistiram ontem a luta dele na Spike TV,onde ele sofreu este ferimento enquanto lutava em Londres ,ele ainda está no hospital e não tem certeza quando ele vai poder voar de volta pra casa, @bellatormma é responsável por todo procedimentos médicos que ele precisar para resolver este problema porém ele não vai poder trabalhar por um tempo e nós vamos arrecadar ajuda pra ele através do #gofundme para os fãs patrocinarem ele e sua família nesta hora difícil, Obrigada Deus por sua proteção!! O medico disse que ele corre risco de vida,mostrem seu apoio aos lutadores e compartilhem isto!!! #GodToGlory #figtherlife #teamcyborg #evangelistacyborgsantos
The Bellator show was quite good last night
MVP needs to be in UFC
Young Irish guy at only 19 won his fight too
Paul Daley got found out yet again when up against someone with a ground game
MVP needs to be in UFC
Young Irish guy at only 19 won his fight too
Paul Daley got found out yet again when up against someone with a ground game
Dreadful injury. After seeing him go down and hearing it was a cracked skull, I feared the worst. The pain itself must have been excruciating and now there are fears over further swelling.
His career is over and I'm not sure he would have made enough money to retire. Who the feck would want to be a fighter?!
His career is over and I'm not sure he would have made enough money to retire. Who the feck would want to be a fighter?!
Has Page said anything about this?
He comes across extremely distastefully to me. He should fight in the UFC and then we'd see what he's actually made of.
He comes across extremely distastefully to me. He should fight in the UFC and then we'd see what he's actually made of.
A few tweets asking for donations for him and sending best wishes, I think. Not much else to be said really.
That's fair enough - I just wondered whether his 'fight persona' was a match with what he is outside of the octagon, because personally, I find a lot to dislike in what he does at Bellator.
Holy shit! That's nuts.
Bellator have said they'll pay all of Cyborgs medical bill and that they'll also give him a win bonus.
Weren't they always going to pay them? The Go Fund Me thing was for his future cos he can't fight (probably ever really.)
The worst thing about this for Bellator is he shouldn't of been fighting anyway really, he got stopped by TKO in April and there's no way he should be fighting again that soon especially against someone like MVP who while untested against top opposition is a level above what Cyborg is now really. Really is poor by them and as proven hugely dangerous to someones life really.
What a hilarious card 200 turned out to be, proper freak show it was.
How stupid is Brock?
Cheated his way to a lot of money with zero real consequences. Is he stupid if he doesn't care that he got caught?
What I don't understand is why these guys are doing PCT?
Everyone is going on about Jones and Brock being caught with Clomid in their system, but why would any pro athlete be doing PCT in the weeks before a contest? It makes no sense. I'd rather stay on a short ester Test than run a PCT. It's really bizarre. I'm not saying they are innocent in anyway, but it definitely makes no sense. I keep reading posts from guys with steroid experience explaining to others why people take Clomid and it's true. But not once have I seen anyone say that it's what they'd do. The only other time I remember anyone getting caught with Clomid was Chael. Because it was Chael no one trusted his excuse, but it was 100% legit. The second test when he got caught with HGH and EPO was the problem. The first test should not have been held against him as if you come off TRT, you need to do a PCT that will include Clomid. However, it doesn't make sense for someone trying to cheat by using Testosterone to do a PCT. If you were trying to cheat it's just as easy to pass the PED test, when on Test as it is Clomid. So it makes no sense for either Jones or Brock to have been on it.
The tainted supplement excuse doesn't wash either. It would be an odd thing to put in a supplement when it's not cheaper than more effective stuff. If you are going to make dodgy supplements then Surperdrol would be cheaper and way more effective. It makes no sense to use Clomid. Also both Means and Romero are guilty. If you take a supplement and it's doing something you are cheating. Anyone who knows anything about supplements knows they are BS and don't work. If your supplement is so good that it makes you perform better, then you can't play dumb when it's "contaminated." If a supplement (not including stuff to supplement your diet or Creatine) is worth taking, then you know something is a miss.
Everyone is going on about Jones and Brock being caught with Clomid in their system, but why would any pro athlete be doing PCT in the weeks before a contest? It makes no sense. I'd rather stay on a short ester Test than run a PCT. It's really bizarre. I'm not saying they are innocent in anyway, but it definitely makes no sense. I keep reading posts from guys with steroid experience explaining to others why people take Clomid and it's true. But not once have I seen anyone say that it's what they'd do. The only other time I remember anyone getting caught with Clomid was Chael. Because it was Chael no one trusted his excuse, but it was 100% legit. The second test when he got caught with HGH and EPO was the problem. The first test should not have been held against him as if you come off TRT, you need to do a PCT that will include Clomid. However, it doesn't make sense for someone trying to cheat by using Testosterone to do a PCT. If you were trying to cheat it's just as easy to pass the PED test, when on Test as it is Clomid. So it makes no sense for either Jones or Brock to have been on it.
The tainted supplement excuse doesn't wash either. It would be an odd thing to put in a supplement when it's not cheaper than more effective stuff. If you are going to make dodgy supplements then Surperdrol would be cheaper and way more effective. It makes no sense to use Clomid. Also both Means and Romero are guilty. If you take a supplement and it's doing something you are cheating. Anyone who knows anything about supplements knows they are BS and don't work. If your supplement is so good that it makes you perform better, then you can't play dumb when it's "contaminated." If a supplement (not including stuff to supplement your diet or Creatine) is worth taking, then you know something is a miss.
They were probably on a PCT because their test levels would plummet once they stopped their cycles, which would cause all sorts of problems in the lead up to their fights. Jones was caught with an AI, which completely makes sense. He took a big chance and got caught.
That doesn't make sense. That's basically the point I'm making. In countless threads on various forums propel are saying they were taking Clomid as part of a PCT. But not one person has addressed, as far as I've seen, why a pro athlete would be on a PCT in the weeks before a fight, given that SERMS and AI's are as easy to catch as Testosterone. I've not seen anyone address this issue.
Simple question, would you PCT with Clomid in the weeks leading up to UFC 200? It's got a half life of around a week. You see why it doesn't make any sense?
Again I stress this doesn't mean either Brock or Jones are innocent. They are both guilty as can be, but it is odd and no one is addressing this oddity.
Jones probably thought he could mask it. Also, some people don't take Clomid as a PCT, they take it while their on cycle, which also may have been a possibility here.
I dint know of anyone who takes Clomid on cycle. Clomid is used instead of Test as a montherapy for TRT. But I've never come across anyone using a Clomid while doing a Test cycle.
Check this out. Look at the half lives of all the different steroids and compare them to Clomid.
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/articles/article-steroid-half-life.aspx
See what I mean when I say it makes no sense? There are steroids than are easier to avoid getting caught taking than Clomid.
Remember when Aldo dropped his piss cup and went missing for a couple of days? That was because he was using a steroid that would be out of the system quickly. You can't do that with Clomid.