It's a PR thing, Jones doesn't have a good image, and now it's even worse.
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It's a PR thing, Jones doesn't have a good image, and now it's even worse.
I just saw this pop up on my Facebook news feed and assumed it was a spoof article until I saw it was on mmafighting.com
I'm completely shocked. Stunned. Personally I don't give a shit about it but the blow back from this is going to absolutely crazy. Obviously the UFC isn't going to sack him, but they have left themselves open for massive critism after firing fighters for smoking weed in the past.
I'm completely shocked. Stunned. Personally I don't give a shit about it but the blow back from this is going to absolutely crazy. Obviously the UFC isn't going to sack him, but they have left themselves open for massive critism after firing fighters for smoking weed in the past.
Yeah it's a weird one alright. Seems the UFC takes weed more seriously than coke, I seem to remember one of the Diaz brothers losing a percentage of their fight purse after testing positive for weed.
Odd that he's checking into rehab aswell, he really doesn't seem the type (far too cocky and sure of himself) so I'm guessing there was pressure from somewhere to do it.
As for Cerrone I'd say Dana is one happy man that he's saving the McGregor card for him, losing the fight would have been a big loss from the card. You really have to love Cerrone though he's a bit mental but great entertainment
Odd that he's checking into rehab aswell, he really doesn't seem the type (far too cocky and sure of himself) so I'm guessing there was pressure from somewhere to do it.
As for Cerrone I'd say Dana is one happy man that he's saving the McGregor card for him, losing the fight would have been a big loss from the card. You really have to love Cerrone though he's a bit mental but great entertainment
Heart skipped a beat when I saw the headline. Thank feck it wasn't steroids
I'm not a big watcher of UFC, I'll watch it when its on, but is Jones really not that great an athlete? His two brothers play American football and they are both pretty damn athletic. Especially Chandler, who is an incredible athlete. Seems weird that Jon Jones doesn't have similar athletic ability
Jesus Christ! Just saw the Jon Jones coke addiction thing there. First a DUI and now this. I don't like the lad but fecking hell, the sport NEEDS him. The GOAT needs to sort his shit out asap.
Wouldn't call him the GOAT. Anyway, I don't feel for this lad at all. He portrayed himself as a holier than thou man and pulls things like his DUI and this now comes up. A phony through and through.
What is curious though is he won't be punished because cocaine isn't in the illegal substance yet fighters regularly are suspended for months and sometimes even a year for the slightest trace of Marijuana. The Nevada Athletic Commission is a joke and this further proves it.
It's scandalous. As for his status, it is debatable but the competition he's had compared to Silva/GSP is a lot better. But that's for another time. I'm more sickened at the NAC. Joke organisation doesn't even describe those inept fools.
Im pretty sure that's when they get caught after a fight, not saying it's right, but it's a different thing to out of competition testing.
He's pretty close to GOAT in my opinion. If you look at who he's beaten, it's hard to find anyone who can match it, especially the way he's done it. It really is so subjective though.
I'd consider Fedor as the GOAT actually not Silva or GSP. As for the NAC, they have a history of being inept in judging, drug testing, and medical licenses. Sad thing is besides the NY commission and the Texas AC, a lot of the other states in the US follow the rules and guidelines and honor the NAC's decisions and suspensions which is very worrying. That system needs to be reformed or regulated better because obviously there are gaping holes which aren't even in the process of being fixed.
He failed 2 drug tests and both of them were tests done after the fight, so in competition. So slightly different.
As for the NAC they are following WADA rules, which is the same as they use for the Olympics no? It's hard to blame them.
I just posted before but from a historical point, Fedor between 2001-2008 there was not man equal to him despite being massively outweighed. As far as the UFC goes yes I can see JBJ in the conversation and had he kept his path he'd certainly overtake GSP and Silva though the GUstaffson fight is a bad mark on him since more agree he lost the fight. Depending on how his career folds out after this fiasco he can still turn it around and be the undisputed GOAT. He's still very young especially for MMA so he can turn it around. For the sake of the sport I do hope so.
Yeah completely agree about Fedor. Although I always feel a bit weird about Pride, as there's so many stories about fixing fights and stuff. I think Jones has already fought tougher competition than Silva if I'm honest. And I'm not sure it would even be a close fight between them if they were at the same weight.
At the time I thought the excuse about Jones not being 100% for the Gus fight was bullshit, but I really don't see Gus taking him down multiple times, and DC struggling. I hope he sorts his shit out so they can rematch, if Gus can stay away from Rumbles haymakers.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/57290336
Skip to 1:55:40 or around that. Joe Rogan finds out live on his Podcast about Jones.
Skip to 1:55:40 or around that. Joe Rogan finds out live on his Podcast about Jones.
My first thought was that it was blatantly a PR stunt, but as you say he must have been taking coke in camp, which does suggest some degree of a problem at least, unless he's just so cocky and so talented that he knows he can beat top opposition whils half-assing training.
This is the first time I could bring myself to post in this thred since the main event on Saturday. I really am a Jones hater
I'm pretty sure he was talking about Matt Riddle, who was fired from the UFC for testing positive for weed a few times, and not Jon Jones.
There's some great gifs and photoshop tomfoolery popping up already
Yeah I meant Matt Riddle. He also openly admits he won't stop smoking weed, whereas Jon went to a rehab centre.
I don't agree with it, but it will be easy for the UFC to spin it
This whole "out of competition" vs "in competition" thing is a new one to me. They're apparently following WADA protocols but how can a sample from the middle of a training camp, one month before a fight, be considered out of competition?
Stronger men whilst at 205? Not sure about that. Cormier is a HW fighting at LHW; there's got to be a fair amount strength lost for him in dropping/cutting and he could get away with that against the calibre of opposition he faced pre-Jones, but against an athlete in his probable fitness prime, it did expose DC a bit.
Do you have the numbers to hand? I'd like to know what the differences were.
I haven't once knocked Jones ability - he is an elite fighter who uses his tools to exceptional level, but that's part of the problem with him in the LHW's... it's like a HW fighting smaller guys with much shorter appendages. It's a gripe I've had with the Jones GOAT talk for a while. Guys like Silva, St. Pierre, Mighty Mouse etc are all the same size etc as their opponents with no enormous physical advantages in addition to their elite skillset. If Silva towered over the guys in his division in addition to the skills he had, he wouldn't have got the same level of acknowledgement, imo, same as people like me need to see Jones do something in a weight class where his stature is the norm'. He'd always be a lighter class of Heavyweight, for sure, which probably puts him at a disadvantage, but if he pulled of victories there, his legacy would become concrete and his skills regarded as the greatest if he could toy around with bigger guys in the same way he toys around with smaller ones.
Your point about Gus goes hand in hand with his size. It wasn't just that he was a good boxer that threw Jones, imo, it was also the fact Gus' equally long reach meant he could get through consistently in ways Jones wasn't used to. It would be interesting to see how Jones would cope with guys with similar range and a lot more power behind their shots.
Now that the news about the drugs has come out, it does throw a wrench into the works with regard to the ease with keeping the weight in line, no?
I don't think he is a natural LHW, I also don't believe he's a natural HW, however, he's an oddity in that regard, to me, a catchweight fighter - too big for LHW, but not big enough to go up against monsters like Browne in HW and have a chance. He'd have to gain a lot to be a true HW, but irrespective of that debate, I still think he's too big for LHW.
Cocaine allegations aside, when did you ever see someone who was bordering on too big for his weight class wear tracksuit bottoms when he's being weighed?
How can we move it to the side? How long he's been under the influence may or may not come out, but it leads to an endless stream of questions, for me, at least.
He's said himself that he can make weight easily, but now we have to ask if he's been going through clean camps and had the trials and tribulations others have had pre-weigh-in.
It's a damn shame this stuff has come out. I hope it doesn't taint him because no matter what I think of his status as a great, I wanted it defined in the octagon, not outside of it.
We can put it to one side because you started the debate about him somehow being unusually big for the division before the allegations came out. Either he's one of those fighters who belongs in a heavier division but cuts insane amounts of weight or he isn't. The fact he finds it so easy to make weight means he's in the right class for his frame. As he says himself, he's just fortunate to have really skinny legs!
Re the cocaine and his weight. He was clean in the second and subsequent tests leading up the weigh in, so we can rule it out as being somehow helpful in making weight. Of course, we do have to ask the question about other banned substances, such as diuretics and the like. But I'd be more suspicious if he had tests positive for a recognised PED, rather than something recreational. If anything, the fact he's sloppy enough to test positive for coke metabolites (which are cleared out of your system very quickly) implies he's not the type of athlete who is disciplined enough to take PEDs over a long period of time and never get caught.
From what i see, he has the same morphotype than me, long arms, long legs, large shoulders, slim bones, it is hard for us to take some weight, we don't take any fat. People tend to think that we are heavier than we really are, too.
Must admit recreational drug use isnt really diminishing anything for me on Jones. I dont think it has gained any advantage because of it
It is unfair that weed seems to be more frowned upon by the commisions though.
It is unfair that weed seems to be more frowned upon by the commisions though.
I heard that weed can help to hide other substances.
Usually my television remote control, for starters.
I thought the reason was that it helps with the pain barrier. But its totally ridiculous. The Diaz brothers for example just want a damn smoke
As I said to PhilipB, I need to know the weight numbers on and after fight night, personally. He said guys have come in heavier than Jones on fight night, that's what I'm interested in. There could now be all kinds of shenanigans to consider with those pre-fight weigh-ins, but I'm a lot less interested in that, was just putting out that this drug thing calls a lot into question regarding that even if in fact it has nothing to do with Jones easily making weight.
For what it's worth, I don't believe Jones needs any kind of PED and has been caught out for his recreational activities, similar to his idiotic DUI. The diuretic thing I hadn't even thought about and I'd honestly be surprised if he's used such an avenue to make weight.
Ecto?
I can see that and it's why I think he's an oddity who is right in limbo in catchweight between LHW and HW as he'll never gain the mass to be a true HW, but looks too big for LHW (for me and others)
He is between both categories like you said, he could gain some weight but he would have to work a lot more than a natural HW.
If we're honest, Jones doesn't need to go up to HW and stay there for any longer than it takes to prove a point that he has the skills and ability to match up against Cain, and with his profile and status, he would be given that fight as soon as he wanted it, probably after testing himself against a few goons first.
For me, he has absolutely no need to become a fully-fledged HW matching up against Browne's and the like, as that'd be silly. Currently, he gives up 3 stone (42lbs) to Browne. At the very, very heaviest, I can't see Jones getting past 16stone (224lbs) without his agility and stamina being severely compromised, and then considering someone like Browne is probably close to 18 stone (248lb) on fight night, he's still absurdly out-weighed, if not out-sized.
The only reason there is talk of Cain and Jones matching up is because Cain is a small guy for a HW. If he were a true monster in size, there wouldn't even be discussion to be had about Jones fighting the HW champion.
Coming back to the same issue again. How is someone "too big" for a weight class if he makes weight so easily. We can assume he's lying when he says he finds the cut easy but wearing a pair of trousers at the weigh in speaks volumes. Then you have his phenomenal cardio, which isn't consistent with someone who's had to cut a load of weight in a very short time. Plus he never has that ripped, dehydrated and veiny look of someone who has to drop every last gram of body fat and fluid to make weight.
He might "look too big" to you but so long as we work in weight (as opposed to height, surface area, whatever) classes all the evidence would indicate that he's perfectly suited to the class he fights in. Just very lucky with his genetics in terms of weight distribution throughout his frame.
I wanted to say that the other day, i can see Velasquez dropping some weight and fight in LHW but i can't see Jones do the same.
You'd have to watch the embedded videos to find some of the weight numbers, but even if you just look at some of his previous fights then you can kinda tell that some of his opponents have been bigger, as in heavier. Jones always looks taller of course, and his long arms and legs add to that illusion but it's only Jones' torso that is actually quite thick.
You think they look in a different weight class here?
And Jones doesn't cut as much weight as either of them, imo. Evidence of this is his fantastic cardio at LHW, the fact he wore tracksuit bottoms on the fecking scale, and just generally how well he looks at weigh ins.
Like Pogue said, he has been blessed with his body shape...
Like Pogue said, he has been blessed with his body shape...
We're talking relatively here. Obviously Jones is a good athlete, but the UFC sells him as a freak tier athlete. He isn't. I highly recommend you look up the Jon Jones dunking gif. A freak tier athlete with his height and wingspan (7 feet) would be able to easily dunk a basketball with a couple of tries. In the video where he is trying to dunk, he elevates like 18 inches off the ground and is completely uncoordinated in the process.
It's kind of crazy to think about, because Jones picks up MMA movements so fluidly and makes them look stupidly easy. Then conversely, something as simple as a 1 step approach to dunk a basketball, he looks like a girl tripping over a dress. In addition to this, I believe he has said as much himself, that he was rubbish at everything but wrestling as a kid/teenager.
We are going to end up going around in circles here though. As I said before, I don't really want to comment on making weight as the shenanigans of recreational drug use muddy the waters for me, plus, I'm only really interested in what he fights at as opposed to how he makes weight. I guess one thing that biases me here is that I myself am a very easy gainer and loser at 6'3", and whilst I'm not comparing myself to Jones, if he is an easy loser, then making weight comfortably isn't that big of a deal. I'm far more interested in his fight-night weight, personally.
I take yours and Phil's point on board that my subjective viewing of his frame might mean I'm off in calling his size, but I know there are many people who think the same thing and it has been a bone of contention with him for a while now, especially as his ambitions expand to be regarded as GOAT of MMA. I think it's also the reason so many talk about him and Cain matching up in the future where you rarely got that kind of talk entertained about other potential GOAT claimants (GSP vs. Silva; Silva vs. Jones) without it being readily dismissed either by the fighter or by the crowds en masse.
As an aside, I read that all traces of coke only stays in the system for 72hrs, is that true?
I think the most we could see in that regard is a catchweight being made that has Jones gain and Cain drop some so they meet in the middle. Cain has no reason to agree to any such thing, though, as he's the prize and scalp Jones needs and not the other way round.
You'd have to watch the embedded videos to find some of the weight numbers, but even if you just look at some of his previous fights then you can kinda tell that some of his opponents have been bigger, as in heavier. Jones always looks taller of course, and his long arms and legs add to that illusion but it's only Jones' torso that is actually quite thick.
You think they look in a different weight class here?
And Jones doesn't cut as much weight as either of them, imo. Evidence of this is his fantastic cardio at LHW, the fact he wore tracksuit bottoms on the fecking scale, and just generally how well he looks at weigh ins.
Like Pogue said, he has been blessed with his body shape...
But that's all pre-fight imagery.
They don't look like a mismatch in the picture you posted up. I'll watch the Rampage, Jones fight again later and see if I think that when they're in motion and up close etc.
http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/1...pion-jon-jones-enters-drug-treatment-facility
Holy shit!!!!
Jones tested positive for cocaine! I'm in shock!
Holy shit!!!!
Jones tested positive for cocaine! I'm in shock!