The MMA thread

Wow what a fight. DC really let me down though, especially after the 4th. When he CLEARLY lost that round, he should have went in to the 5th with the intention of knock out or be knocked out, it was his only hope but all he tried was to take down Jones. He would have had to take Jones down like 5-6 times to even stand a chance. It's like he gave up.

I can't see who will beat Bones now. Gustafsson had the best chance but I also think that was partly due to Bones underestimating him. I can't see him winning the rematch. Machida also did ok until he got choked the feck out so Jones isn't as invincible as say Anderson Silva in his prime but looking through the contenders, I can't see Bones losing for a long long time.

Cerrone kicking the shit out of Jury at the end of the 3rd was just too :lol:
 
JP77 said:
Cormier is a top level fighter that basically hadn't even lost a round and was undefeated. The only argument to be had was that Gustafsson was made the wait. Cormier deserved a shot either way.

The fight was close for the first three rounds with barely anything in it. The final two rounds are where it completely shifted.
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I think Cormier is good but not great. The level of opponents he has faced isn't even close to JJ.

His biggest and most impressive win was probably Josh Barnett in a grinding fight. And Barnett is past his best.

His ufc run hasn't been spectacular either. He put away Dan Henderson post TRT and didn't look great against Mir or Nelson
 
JP77 said:
Cormier is a top level fighter that basically hadn't even lost a round and was undefeated. The only argument to be had was that Gustafsson was made the wait. Cormier deserved a shot either way.

The fight was close for the first three rounds with barely anything in it. The final two rounds are where it completely shifted.
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To be honest, i don't like Cormier he opens his mouth when he fled the heavyweight division without fighting the top dogs, then he barged into the Light-heavyweight division pretending to be the best ever, without fighting Texeira, Gustafsson or Johnson.

But to be honest, i'm biased if Mcgregor defeats Siver, I won't have any problem seeing him fight for the title.
 
Man of Leisure said:
I think both Jones and Cormier wouldn't have any issues smashing Rumble Johnson. Guy hasn't really fought anyone of note except dudes past their prime. Looking at his fight record, how the feck did he even fight Josh Koschek back in 2009, let alone lose to him?
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He used to fight at welterweight! He would cut 40 pounds which is just insane but since he's moved to light heavyweight he has looked amazing. He has the size and power to trouble anyone in that division.
 
Randall Flagg said:
I think Cormier is good but not great. The level of opponents he has faced isn't even close to JJ.

His biggest and most impressive win was probably Josh Barnett in a grinding fight. And Barnett is past his best.

His ufc run hasn't been spectacular either. He put away Dan Henderson post TRT and didn't look great against Mir or Nelson
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I think the fight against JJ showed DC to be one of the top fighters. Look at how many of the "best" Jones has dismantled. DC was right in the fight until the 4th round where he totally gassed.

DC would probably beat everyone else in the division and there very well could be a rematch down the line if JJ doesn't move up to HW.
 
Jagga7 said:
I think the fight against JJ showed DC to be one of the top fighters. Look at how many of the "best" Jones has dismantled. DC was right in the fight until the 4th round where he totally gassed.

DC would probably beat everyone else in the division and there very well could be a rematch down the line if JJ doesn't move up to HW.
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I think you are overrating Cormier, he is one of the best in the division, but the fight wasn't close for me, he only won 1 round and this round was disputed, he has been taken down easily, he struggled badly in wrestling.
In the UFC Cormier hasn't fought one serious fighter before Jones, and that's the problem his reputation is made on fight against, has-been.
 
JPRouve said:
I think you are overrating Cormier, he is one of the best in the division, but the fight wasn't close for me, he only won 1 round and this round was disputed, he has been taken down easily, he struggled badly in wrestling.
In the UFC Cormier hasn't fought one serious fighter before Jones, and that's the problem his reputation is made on fight against, has-been.
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Jones really didn't inflict much damage of any. Cormier was walking through a lot of his shots and the only reason he was taken down was because he was so tired. Jones has to be one of the goats in the sport already so I give a lot of credit to anyone who stands with him for the full 5 rounds.

His record was 15-0 and he ko'ed big foot and rag dolled Hendo, Barnett, Mir and Nelson. It was the manner in which he won those fights as well claiming legitimacy from training with Cain Velasquez that made/makes him a top contender.
 
Jones doesnt get enough credit imo from a lot of people. Not sure if its because he comes of as a heel and people would rather pick on that but the stuff hes done in the Octagon since his debut as been excellent. Its almost like he goes out of his way to beat people at their strengths. Of course his reach advantage is huge, but hes shown he can take some heavy shots.
He will beat Gus in a rematch. He just looks focused on being the best ever and he will take that crown when he retires.
 
Jagga7 said:
Jones really didn't inflict much damage of any. Cormier was walking through a lot of his shots and the only reason he was taken down was because he was so tired. Jones has to be one of the goats in the sport already so I give a lot of credit to anyone who stands with him for the full 5 rounds.

His record was 15-0 and he ko'ed big foot and rag dolled Hendo, Barnett, Mir and Nelson. It was the manner in which he won those fights as well claiming legitimacy from training with Cain Velasquez that made/makes him a top contender.
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I hear what you say but look at the fighters you mentioned, they aren't the best heavyweight or lightweight, and like I said the difference in the Gustafsson fight and the Cormier fight was very big for me, Gustafsson was on par with Jones and Cormier wasn't.

If Cormier had fought someone like Travis Browne or Glover Texeira then i will acknowledge his level, but for the moment he is inferior to Gustafsson.

Edit: Weirdly enough before Jones, Cormier mainly fought against one punch KO men, who aren't as comfortable in a complicated fight where all the tools need to be used. (I know that they are supposed to be great Jiu-Jitsu artists)
 
JPRouve said:
I hear what you say but look at the fighters you mentioned, they aren't the best heavyweight or lightweight, and like I said the difference in the Gustafsson fight and the Cormier fight was very big for me, Gustafsson was on par with Jones and Cormier wasn't.

If Cormier had fought someone like Travis Browne or Glover Texeira then i will acknowledge his level, but for the moment he is inferior to Gustafsson.

Edit: Weirdly enough before Jones, Cormier mainly fought against one punch KO men, who aren't as comfortable in a complicated fight where all the tools need to be used. (I know that they are supposed to be great Jiu-Jitsu artists)
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Yeh definitely after the performances against Jones, Gustafsson has to be ranked higher than DC.

But if you look at Gustafssons record it's not very impressive, no one expected him to give Jones such a hard fight. Styles makes fights as well I guess.
 
Jagga7 said:
Yeh definitely after the performances against Jones, Gustafsson has to be ranked higher than DC.

But if you look at Gustafssons record it's not very impressive, no one expected him to give Jones such a hard fight. Styles makes fights as well I guess.
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I agree with you, but here is the thing if no one expected that it's not because of Gustafsson's abilities but because of the UFC PR machine, they hype up some fighters and keep others in the dark.

For example Travis Browne, he destroy everyone who is put infront of him but we talk about him only when he is on the card, when the Cormier (or McGregor) Circus is in town even when he is not on the card.
 
Fortitude said:
Press conference was excellent; addressed a lot of the issues people (including myself) have with Jones' size in the LHW division.

Cormier said Jones appears and feels a lot bigger than he is whilst in the octagon and that that surprised him. Bit of a cryptic statement that needs Cormier to expand upon his thoughts, for me.

Jones said he has been so focused on Cormier that he's been walking around under weight for the majority of the build up to the fight and has even had to eat more to make 205. He also mentioned that he has skinny legs and is, in fact, a natural LHW as far as he is concerned.

But that's still misleading, imo. He has a frame that can easily pack on mass about the thigh and torso and I'd love to know what he goes in on fight night at - if what he was saying about pre-fight weight is true and he isn't cutting, then probably no more than 215. If he is cutting, then around what you said, I reckon. Still, he looks absolutely huge in the octagon and has dwarfed everyone he's faced except Gus and I don't think it's just coincidence that suddenly when faced with someone with the same size (probably not fight night mass), he struggled a lot more than usual.

I agree he uses his limbs superbly for all sorts of things and they give him tremendous leverage in clinches, but I can't help but think that combined with that mass, there's very little most legit LHW's can do against it.

Cormier is a natural HW fighting at LHW, so the cutting process must drain him a lot and even re-hydrating, he's not going to be the same animal he would be without the cut. Someone like Cain, who doesn't need to go through that kind of process is going to bring the raw and natural force needed to really make Jones think twice and pick and choose his shots and clinches wisely because eating shots like he does against LHW's in the HW's would have him sprawled out unconscious within a round... plus his lack of genuine single punch K.O power would, i presume, have him deal with problems that he will never face in the LHW's of someone going head-hunting and wanting a direct hit-and-be-hit exchange.
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I think anyone will appear bigger and stronger when you're hitting them as hard as you can, trying to take them down, and they're still just standing there ready to push the pace. DC has definitely fought stronger men, but maybe none who can push the pace like Jones. For me, his stamina and endurance is one of his biggest weapons. Just keeps coming at you, so impressive.

Stephan Bonner was bigger than Jones and had a reach around 80", and Jones destroyed him. Rampage, Glover, Rashad weighed more than Jones on fight night and so had more mass, but it didn't make any difference either. I don't get the reach argument, just because you have a long reach doesn't mean you're born also with the skills to use it. Stefan Strive has a longer reach and is terrible at using it effectively. Not only that but Jones fought DC a lot in the clinch and against the fence, he wasn't even fighting tall. He also dirty boxed with Glover and fought inside too, and beat both of them. In regards to Gus, he is an excellent boxer, and has really good movement, I think that threw off Jones more than the similar reaches.

I think he uses his physical assets extremely well, but he has so many tools to dig into that he is pretty much the complete fighter. And if he is destroying nearly all in his division, then he shouldn't move up. He is a natural LHW, just with an excellent reach, and if he doesn't struggle with the cut at all, which he doesn't, then LHW is were he should be.
 
JPRouve said:
I agree with you, but here is the thing if no one expected that it's not because of Gustafsson's abilities but because of the UFC PR machine, they hype up some fighters and keep others in the dark.

For example Travis Browne, he destroy everyone who is put infront of him but we talk about him only when he is on the card, when the Cormier (or McGregor) Circus is in town even when he is not on the card.
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I didn't expect Gus to do so well either but it had nothing to do with the UFC PR machine, which is terrible at promoting fighters anyway. Gus lost handily to Phil Davis in which he was outwrestled, then went on a win streak against a fairly poor run of fighters:

Maurício Rua
Thiago Silva
Vladimir Matyushenko
Matt Hamill
James Te Huna
Cyrille Diabaté

Not anyone there that is particularly impressive, even Shogun was another year older and Gus could only tae him to a decision.
 
PhilipB said:
I didn't expect Gus to do so well either but it had nothing to do with the UFC PR machine, which is terrible at promoting fighters anyway. Gus lost handily to Phil Davis in which he was outwrestled, then went on a win streak against a fairly poor run of fighters:

Maurício Rua
Thiago Silva
Vladimir Matyushenko
Matt Hamill
James Te Huna
Cyrille Diabaté

Not anyone there that is particularly impressive, even Shogun was another year older and Gus could only tae him to a decision.
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You see, i was thinking about Phil Davis, how comes Cormier didn't fight against this type of guy, before a title shot ?
 
JPRouve said:
You see, i was thinking about Phil Davis, how comes Cormier didn't fight against this type of guy, before a title shot ?
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But they had set Cormier up with Rashad, who is a tougher fight than Davis. Rashid just got injured so DC fought Cummins instead. Then Jones/Gus rematch was set up, but Gus got injured and so they put in DC instead, and from there, DC and Jones rivalry snowballed. If Gus didn't get injured, DC probably would have fought Glover or Rashid or Rumble etc but it's just how things worked out.
 
PhilipB said:
But they had set Cormier up with Rashad, who is a tougher fight than Davis. Rashid just got injured so DC fought Cummins instead. Then Jones/Gus rematch was set up, but Gus got injured and so they put in DC instead, and from there, DC and Jones rivalry snowballed. If Gus didn't get injured, DC probably would have fought Glover or Rashid or Rumble etc but it's just how things worked out.
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Thanks, i missed the last six months, i remember that the fight was supposed to happen in September but didn't search why things changed.

And like i said i don't like Cormier, so i will try to diminish his achievements, as long as possible. :D
 
Where can I watch the post fight conference?
 
Jones again exceeded my expectations. I had wondered if he was going to fight Cormier toe to toe i.e. close and he did. He even took Cormier down a few times. No one else has done that. Good fight for him. Cormier is no where in the same league as Jones. So now we will have the Jones vs Gus 2. I expect Jones to have a much better performance than the first fight.

Ok, I see Gus vs Johnson is on. Should be good, Johnson has been impressive lately.
 
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Gus beats Rumble, Jones destroys Gus, Jones moves up and beats a decent HW and then Velasquez, and he's officially GOAT.

There's actually a case he already is now.
 
Before this fight. I was pretty sure that it was going to be a demolition. One way or the other. Either Bones would do what he does, keep DC off balance and pick him apart in a lopsided domination, or DC would just bulldoze him.

Neither happened. In truth it was kind of an odd fight.

Rounds 1 and 3 were really close. You could make an argument for either guy winning them and not be crazy.

2 was the only dominant round in the fight, DC looked like he might bulldoze.

Round 4 was Jones wall'n'stall with some takedowns. Clear Jones round, but equal measures what Jones did and what DC didn't do.

Round 5 was more of the same but with even less actually happening.

I had Jones taking it 4-1, maybe 3-2 but at the same time I could completely see how someone could have given DC the first 3. Rounds 1 and 3 were pretty damn even. DC picked up in the later half of round 1 and did the only real work in the round. In round 3 up until the eye poke DC was doing more of the same and putting it to Jones. After the poke Jones took control and never looked back. Still, you can make an argument that DC takes 1 and 3.

Odd fight, not what I expected at all.
 
PhilipB said:
I think anyone will appear bigger and stronger when you're hitting them as hard as you can, trying to take them down, and they're still just standing there ready to push the pace. DC has definitely fought stronger men, but maybe none who can push the pace like Jones. For me, his stamina and endurance is one of his biggest weapons. Just keeps coming at you, so impressive.

Stephan Bonner was bigger than Jones and had a reach around 80", and Jones destroyed him. Rampage, Glover, Rashad weighed more than Jones on fight night and so had more mass, but it didn't make any difference either. I don't get the reach argument, just because you have a long reach doesn't mean you're born also with the skills to use it. Stefan Strive has a longer reach and is terrible at using it effectively. Not only that but Jones fought DC a lot in the clinch and against the fence, he wasn't even fighting tall. He also dirty boxed with Glover and fought inside too, and beat both of them. In regards to Gus, he is an excellent boxer, and has really good movement, I think that threw off Jones more than the similar reaches.

I think he uses his physical assets extremely well, but he has so many tools to dig into that he is pretty much the complete fighter. And if he is destroying nearly all in his division, then he shouldn't move up. He is a natural LHW, just with an excellent reach, and if he doesn't struggle with the cut at all, which he doesn't, then LHW is were he should be.
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Rogan is dead on with Jones. He is all leverage and he uses it well. If anyone should be called the Spider, its Jones. You take a guy like DC who is clearly a more powerful, explosive fighter and he tries to grapple with Jones, and Jones wraps him up like a Spider. It's hard to overpower a guy who can practically engulf you. It saps everything you do. Jones is such a bizarre dude. Despite what the UFC will tell you, he is not a crazy athlete. He is just this weird confluence of skill and physical traits that have created this insane fighter.

Jon Jones couldn't do anything else sporting wise. He couldn't play football, either kind. He couldn't play basketball(watch him try to dunk...). He couldn't play Hockey, he couldn't play Rugby. He is too awkward (and might I suggest uncoordinated) to play those sports. A truly natural athlete, the kind of athlete the UFC tries to sell him as, could instantly pick any of those sports up and play them at a decent level. Jones couldn't.

Then you have him fight, and he is fluid, graceful and all kinds of crazy.
 
PhilipB said:
I think anyone will appear bigger and stronger when you're hitting them as hard as you can, trying to take them down, and they're still just standing there ready to push the pace. DC has definitely fought stronger men, but maybe none who can push the pace like Jones. For me, his stamina and endurance is one of his biggest weapons. Just keeps coming at you, so impressive.

Stephan Bonner was bigger than Jones and had a reach around 80", and Jones destroyed him. Rampage, Glover, Rashad weighed more than Jones on fight night and so had more mass, but it didn't make any difference either. I don't get the reach argument, just because you have a long reach doesn't mean you're born also with the skills to use it. Stefan Strive has a longer reach and is terrible at using it effectively. Not only that but Jones fought DC a lot in the clinch and against the fence, he wasn't even fighting tall. He also dirty boxed with Glover and fought inside too, and beat both of them. In regards to Gus, he is an excellent boxer, and has really good movement, I think that threw off Jones more than the similar reaches.

I think he uses his physical assets extremely well, but he has so many tools to dig into that he is pretty much the complete fighter. And if he is destroying nearly all in his division, then he shouldn't move up. He is a natural LHW, just with an excellent reach, and if he doesn't struggle with the cut at all, which he doesn't, then LHW is were he should be.
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Bonnar is a joke, not worth mentioning.

He definitely has incredible stamina, that separated him from Gus and DC.

His balance was amazing in this fight, remarkable to out wrestle DC.
 
gooDevil said:
Bonnar is a joke, not worth mentioning.

He definitely has incredible stamina, that separated him from Gus and DC.

His balance was amazing in this fight, remarkable to out wrestle DC.
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He is worth mentioning, when my point is that being tall and having a reach advantage doesn't mean that's the be all and end all. He's the same height as Jones and has an 80" reach, and he wasn't anywhere near as effective as Jones.
 
Nucks said:
Rogan is dead on with Jones. He is all leverage and he uses it well. If anyone should be called the Spider, its Jones. You take a guy like DC who is clearly a more powerful, explosive fighter and he tries to grapple with Jones, and Jones wraps him up like a Spider. It's hard to overpower a guy who can practically engulf you. It saps everything you do. Jones is such a bizarre dude. Despite what the UFC will tell you, he is not a crazy athlete. He is just this weird confluence of skill and physical traits that have created this insane fighter.

Jon Jones couldn't do anything else sporting wise. He couldn't play football, either kind. He couldn't play basketball(watch him try to dunk...). He couldn't play Hockey, he couldn't play Rugby. He is too awkward (and might I suggest uncoordinated) to play those sports. A truly natural athlete, the kind of athlete the UFC tries to sell him as, could instantly pick any of those sports up and play them at a decent level. Jones couldn't.

Then you have him fight, and he is fluid, graceful and all kinds of crazy.
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Yep, I agree with all of that.
 
Alvarez is injured and Cerrone, on the back of just dominating Jury the other night, takes his place to fight Henderson in TWO weeks time.
 
Just reading. Eddie Alvarez pulled out because of the flu. Cmon its 2 weeks away, I realise it would be disruptive to preparation and weight cutting. But I bet plenty of guys would have still gone to fight.

Alvarez has a history of pulling out of fights if I am not mistaken
 
He knows a second successive defeat in as many bouts as a UFC fighter will drop him into the depths of nothingness so will probably turn up when he is scheduled to fight someone easier...
 
JP77 said:
Alvarez is injured and Cerrone, on the back of just dominating Jury the other night, takes his place to fight Henderson in TWO weeks time.
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Since he didn't get to do much fighting he should be in great shape.

These guys must hurt their own hands and feet just from punching and kicking, though, even without getting hit.
 
Jon jones has gone into a treatment facility for a cocaine problem. A drugs test on 4th December showed he was on the coke but apparently it's not an issue for the UFC so they let him fight Cormier.

Not sure what to make of this, I can't see how it can in any way be considered a PED but didn't one of the Diaz brothers get into some shit for having traces of weed in their system?
 
duffer said:
Jon jones has gone into a treatment facility for a cocaine problem. A drugs test on 4th December showed he was on the coke but apparently it's not an issue for the UFC so they let him fight Cormier.

Not sure what to make of this, I can't see how it can in any way be considered a PED but didn't one of the Diaz brothers get into some shit for having traces of weed in their system?
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"A drug test on Dec. 4 showed benzoylecgonine in Jones' system, sources said. The substance, a cocaine metabolite, is not banned out of competition by WADA, which the Nevada Athletic Commission follows. Jones passed an in-competition test, so he will face no fine or penalty. His unanimous decision victory over Daniel Cormier on Saturday in Las Vegas will be upheld."
 
He must have been on the Bolivian marching powder well into his fight camp!

Do we think he needs to go into a rehab facility for what can't have been more than a few bumps? or is it just a PR thing.
 
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