The MMA thread

Another bullshit decision. Come on man, Hendricks had this. 1, 2 clearly won by Hendricks no excuses. 4 was his too. GSP had to something exceptional in the 5th and didnt manage anything notable. Simple to score fight with human error proving decisive.
 
I had GSP winning 1, 3 and 5. One was razor thin, and there are legit arguments IMO for either guy.

That said while I had GSP winning the match, Hendricks won the "fight".

I believe GSP won the first round based specifically on his take down and attempted guillotine. There was nothing between them on striking imo. I'm also a big proponent of take downs not counting for anything unless they are in some way shape or form dynamic. As in a slam or some significant amount of kinetic energy is imparted into the guy on the receiving end. I've sort of championed that on the UG for years.

That said, they do score for TD's and GSP did get one in the first in an otherwise even round.

Two was clearly Hendricks, but not 10-8.

Three it looked like GSP was taking control of the fight and Hendricks looked to be fading.

Four, Hendricks stormed back and really put it to GSP busting him up pretty good.

Five, trademark GSP, took him down over and over and controlled the round.

At the end of the day, the scoring criteria is very clear. Damage is not scored, take downs for better or worse are. Round 1 GSP I believe according to the compustat numbers outlanded Hendricks by 1 punch and then he had the take down.

The problem with MMA scoring is that the internal consistency is not good. What MMA scoring measures isn't who wins a "fight" but rather who out performs on a set of relatively arbitrarily weighted conditions.

This is why I think we keep seeing outrage over who is winning/losing fights.

Look at Machida/Shogun 1.

It is a similar case. Based on the criteria for scoring I firmly believe Machida won the "match" but he lost the "fight" as in, by the 4th and 5th rounds which he lost, he was getting smashed, yet according to scoring systems in place he won the first 3 IMO.

Same deal here.

The scoring systems need to change to be relevant to MMA and takedowns NOT scored unless you bash a dude into the floor with it.


This is a well thought out post. Enjoyed reading that, nice work. Confusion is still around the first round - the judges got everything right apart from round one. I thought Hendricks won that, but I'll have another look.
 
I had GSP winning 1, 3 and 5. One was razor thin, and there are legit arguments IMO for either guy.

That said while I had GSP winning the match, Hendricks won the "fight".

I believe GSP won the first round based specifically on his take down and attempted guillotine. There was nothing between them on striking imo. I'm also a big proponent of take downs not counting for anything unless they are in some way shape or form dynamic. As in a slam or some significant amount of kinetic energy is imparted into the guy on the receiving end. I've sort of championed that on the UG for years.

That said, they do score for TD's and GSP did get one in the first in an otherwise even round.

Two was clearly Hendricks, but not 10-8.

Three it looked like GSP was taking control of the fight and Hendricks looked to be fading.

Four, Hendricks stormed back and really put it to GSP busting him up pretty good.

Five, trademark GSP, took him down over and over and controlled the round.

At the end of the day, the scoring criteria is very clear. Damage is not scored, take downs for better or worse are. Round 1 GSP I believe according to the compustat numbers outlanded Hendricks by 1 punch and then he had the take down.

The problem with MMA scoring is that the internal consistency is not good. What MMA scoring measures isn't who wins a "fight" but rather who out performs on a set of relatively arbitrarily weighted conditions.

This is why I think we keep seeing outrage over who is winning/losing fights.

Look at Machida/Shogun 1.

It is a similar case. Based on the criteria for scoring I firmly believe Machida won the "match" but he lost the "fight" as in, by the 4th and 5th rounds which he lost, he was getting smashed, yet according to scoring systems in place he won the first 3 IMO.

Same deal here.

The scoring systems need to change to be relevant to MMA and takedowns NOT scored unless you bash a dude into the floor with it.


Yeah this is a good post, I think a lot of people got caught up in the fight in the sense that we're so used to seeing GSP being so dominant that it was a shock to see Hendricks take it to the champ. I still thought Hendricks won but its not as much of an outrage as people are making it out to be. Out of interest do people reckon GSP would be favourite to win a rematch if we get one?
 
I think GSP might be done. He has not been the same since his knee reconstruction. He's looked plodding and lacking his usual explosiveness. Look at the Hendricks/Koschek fight. In my opinion Koschek actually won that fight but that is neither here nor there. GSP man handled Koschek's wrestling, and Koschek and Hendrick were pretty even with Hendricks maybe getting a slight advantage in terms of wrestling.

In the early rounds, Hendricks manhandled GSP in the clinch. It's a bit of MMA math I guess, but GSP just has not looked the same since the injury. We can't forget he is also starting to get up there in years, has been through a couple of wars, and has been performing at the top for a very long time for a professional athlete. The body only has so much mileage in top gear before it starts breaking down and I think we're seeing it.

I'm not sure he'd beat Hendricks in a rematch. Time beats everyone down and maybe time has finally caught up to GSP. If GSP leaves, the road is open for Condit who I also believe beat Hendricks ;p I'd love to see Condit hold the strap, even if I doubt he'd hold it long.
 
I get the impression that GSP would rather go out on top rather than fight his way down the ranks and out of the league like Tito Ortiz.

I'd put money on him never facing Hendricks again.
 
I get the impression that GSP would rather go out on top rather than fight his way down the ranks and out of the league like Tito Ortiz.

I'd put money on him never facing Hendricks again.

I've always thought GSP was really into the whole "honour" aspect of martial arts. I can't imagine he'll want this win over Hendricks to be the full stop on his career.
 
I watched the post fight event press conference yesterday on youtube. Dana White was fecking pissed! :lol:
 
I've always thought GSP was really into the whole "honour" aspect of martial arts. I can't imagine he'll want this win over Hendricks to be the full stop on his career.

GSP didn't score the match, he just took it. I'm not sure he owes anyone anything, personally. Having recently started following the ufc I have little knowledge of GSPs character. But many top athletes in history, when they saw their time was up as far as being the best, decided to bow out on top rather than lose to the new generation.

That interview at the end sounded like the words of a man who doesn't want a rematch.
 
GSP didn't score the match, he just took it. I'm not sure he owes anyone anything, personally. Having recently started following the ufc I have little knowledge of GSPs character. But many top athletes in history, when they saw their time was up as far as being the best, decided to bow out on top rather than lose to the new generation.

That interview at the end sounded like the words of a man who doesn't want a rematch.

GSP's issues are apparently nothing to do with his age or ability (he has a sick family member). He'll be back and I bet he'll want a rematch.
 
GSP's issues are apparently nothing to do with his age or ability (he has a sick family member). He'll be back and I bet he'll want a rematch.

I hope you're right, I would really enjoy seeing those two fight again. GSP seems to be a superior tactician, so it could well end up a closer fight. On the other hand, Hendricks isn't going to spend any time coasting, or singing to himself, the next time, he should be better than ever.
 
I think GSP might be done. He has not been the same since his knee reconstruction. He's looked plodding and lacking his usual explosiveness. Look at the Hendricks/Koschek fight. In my opinion Koschek actually won that fight but that is neither here nor there. GSP man handled Koschek's wrestling, and Koschek and Hendrick were pretty even with Hendricks maybe getting a slight advantage in terms of wrestling.

In the early rounds, Hendricks manhandled GSP in the clinch. It's a bit of MMA math I guess, but GSP just has not looked the same since the injury. We can't forget he is also starting to get up there in years, has been through a couple of wars, and has been performing at the top for a very long time for a professional athlete. The body only has so much mileage in top gear before it starts breaking down and I think we're seeing it.

I'm not sure he'd beat Hendricks in a rematch. Time beats everyone down and maybe time has finally caught up to GSP. If GSP leaves, the road is open for Condit who I also believe beat Hendricks ;p I'd love to see Condit hold the strap, even if I doubt he'd hold it long.


GSP is done only if he decides he's done. Let's not act like he's not an absolute warrior and incredible athlete. He might not of looked AS GOOD as before the injury, he's still come back from it and not lost though. Beat a quality contender in Condit, while also coming back after being knocked down, showing he can take shots. Comfortably dealt with Diaz and then had a close fought fight against Hendricks, arguably his toughest challenger of all time (debatable for me, but many argue he is). He's returned from a massive injury and took out three top class fighters.

Then take into account that he seems to be going through some personal stuff, whether that played a part in this fight nobody really knows, but it's possible. I'd be surprised if we didn't see GSP fight again and if he get's his head sorted, doing what I expected him to do in the first fight in a rematch with Hendricks. I've never been a massive GSP fan, but the guy is almost a freak in terms of how brilliant of an athlete he is. One suddenly questionable fight shouldn't ever be changing that.
 
Just recieved an email from ESPN regarding the fantasy game telling me that I've won a goody bag for "winning a UFC Fantasy Fighter game event" :drool:
 
GSP is done only if he decides he's done. Let's not act like he's not an absolute warrior and incredible athlete. He might not of looked AS GOOD as before the injury, he's still come back from it and not lost though. Beat a quality contender in Condit, while also coming back after being knocked down, showing he can take shots. Comfortably dealt with Diaz and then had a close fought fight against Hendricks, arguably his toughest challenger of all time (debatable for me, but many argue he is). He's returned from a massive injury and took out three top class fighters.

Then take into account that he seems to be going through some personal stuff, whether that played a part in this fight nobody really knows, but it's possible. I'd be surprised if we didn't see GSP fight again and if he get's his head sorted, doing what I expected him to do in the first fight in a rematch with Hendricks. I've never been a massive GSP fan, but the guy is almost a freak in terms of how brilliant of an athlete he is. One suddenly questionable fight shouldn't ever be changing that.

I like GSP too, and I am sure he could continue to win fights. However I don't think GSP is going to be willing to continue fighting if his fights start looking more and more like Condit and Hendricks where he is getting marked up and taking damage. Pre knee injury he was untouchable. He beat everyone decisively at their own game. Since the layoff and injury he hasn't been the same guy. I've personally had a knee reconstruction and while physically the knee might be technically stronger post op, the knee is never the same. It's never going to be as good as it once was. The range of motion is different, the stability is different.

Pile on top of that, the fact GSP's game IS so much about his physicality and the guy is getting into his 30's. Endurance can stay till you die, but quickness goes quickly. GSP has always been about quickness, he's always been about speed and power. Using his wrestling to cow strikers, and using his wrestling defense and striking prowess to dominate wrestlers. Take the quickness out of the equation and things start to shape up differently.

Anyways, when I say "done" I'm not really saying he will retire, but rather I think he may be done in terms of being at his absolute peak and he is on the long slide to middle-age. Prime GSP only loses via fluke 1 hitter quitter. This GSP IMO almost lost a decision to a guy who has a notoriously bad gas-tank and a completely one dimensional game plan.
 
I would have just about have given Hendricks the first round, but 51-49 type of scoring, it was that close.

I agree with Nucks, the scoring system really has to change.
 
So did I. Happy days!


Any idea what kind of stuff it is?

I like GSP too, and I am sure he could continue to win fights. However I don't think GSP is going to be willing to continue fighting if his fights start looking more and more like Condit and Hendricks where he is getting marked up and taking damage. Pre knee injury he was untouchable. He beat everyone decisively at their own game. Since the layoff and injury he hasn't been the same guy. I've personally had a knee reconstruction and while physically the knee might be technically stronger post op, the knee is never the same. It's never going to be as good as it once was. The range of motion is different, the stability is different.

Pile on top of that, the fact GSP's game IS so much about his physicality and the guy is getting into his 30's. Endurance can stay till you die, but quickness goes quickly. GSP has always been about quickness, he's always been about speed and power. Using his wrestling to cow strikers, and using his wrestling defense and striking prowess to dominate wrestlers. Take the quickness out of the equation and things start to shape up differently.

Anyways, when I say "done" I'm not really saying he will retire, but rather I think he may be done in terms of being at his absolute peak and he is on the long slide to middle-age. Prime GSP only loses via fluke 1 hitter quitter. This GSP IMO almost lost a decision to a guy who has a notoriously bad gas-tank and a completely one dimensional game plan.


Fair enough mate. I'm not saying he's not winding down a bit now, just that my point was it'll be his decision. It's not like he's returned from injury and lost three fights or been dismantled. He's come back from that massive injury and beat three top class guys, which is the only real point I was making, that despite the injury, he's still a fecking freak in terms of an athlete. I'd disagree regarding Hendricks having a one dimensional game plan though...though I'd also agree that it'd of been a different fight against a GSP at the very top of his game, which is why I ended up so surprised with how it went.

In fairness Rogan said a few things that I had no clue about that maybe back you up and actually worry me. GSP was on his podcast and telling him about how he'd been abducted by Aliens and how one day he was driving his car and was suddenly at all with no idea of time or how he got there. As well as the shots he's taken in his last three fights and how those three total up so something like 50% of the shots he's taken in his entire career. That's pretty worrying stuff.

Will be interesting to see if we find out what the personal issues are. I'm confident we see him fight again and if so it's just a matter of waiting and seeing how it goes.
 
Just recieved an email from ESPN regarding the fantasy game telling me that I've won a goody bag for "winning a UFC Fantasy Fighter game event" :drool:
What?! You can actually win things with it?! Good to know, let us know what's inside once you receive it please.
 
What?! You can actually win things with it?! Good to know, let us know what's inside once you receive it please.


I think the better you do in that segment (the one event) the better the prize you get? Expect coming first is something like tickets to an event or something more. I got the email and thought it was fake at first :lol:

Think I finished about 32nd for the event and he said it's an ESPN goody bag so I'm expecting something like a t-shirt and maybe a couple of other little things, nothing too big. I'll let you know.
 
Any idea what kind of stuff it is?




Fair enough mate. I'm not saying he's not winding down a bit now, just that my point was it'll be his decision. It's not like he's returned from injury and lost three fights or been dismantled. He's come back from that massive injury and beat three top class guys, which is the only real point I was making, that despite the injury, he's still a fecking freak in terms of an athlete. I'd disagree regarding Hendricks having a one dimensional game plan though...though I'd also agree that it'd of been a different fight against a GSP at the very top of his game, which is why I ended up so surprised with how it went.

In fairness Rogan said a few things that I had no clue about that maybe back you up and actually worry me. GSP was on his podcast and telling him about how he'd been abducted by Aliens and how one day he was driving his car and was suddenly at all with no idea of time or how he got there. As well as the shots he's taken in his last three fights and how those three total up so something like 50% of the shots he's taken in his entire career. That's pretty worrying stuff.

Will be interesting to see if we find out what the personal issues are. I'm confident we see him fight again and if so it's just a matter of waiting and seeing how it goes.

I listened to the Podcast as well. I'm pretty sure it was lost in translation. It seemed very clear to me that GSP was joking around. The only real serious bit he was talking about there from my perspective is that he is obsessive compulsive and will just completely lose track of time or what he is doing when he is doing something.

IE; he trains and suddenly its night time and he has no idea where the day went.
 
Any idea what kind of stuff it is?




Fair enough mate. I'm not saying he's not winding down a bit now, just that my point was it'll be his decision. It's not like he's returned from injury and lost three fights or been dismantled. He's come back from that massive injury and beat three top class guys, which is the only real point I was making, that despite the injury, he's still a fecking freak in terms of an athlete. I'd disagree regarding Hendricks having a one dimensional game plan though...though I'd also agree that it'd of been a different fight against a GSP at the very top of his game, which is why I ended up so surprised with how it went.

In fairness Rogan said a few things that I had no clue about that maybe back you up and actually worry me. GSP was on his podcast and telling him about how he'd been abducted by Aliens and how one day he was driving his car and was suddenly at all with no idea of time or how he got there. As well as the shots he's taken in his last three fights and how those three total up so something like 50% of the shots he's taken in his entire career. That's pretty worrying stuff.

Will be interesting to see if we find out what the personal issues are. I'm confident we see him fight again and if so it's just a matter of waiting and seeing how it goes.

 
Goody Bag arrived this morning for fantasy fighter. Was a UFC Towel, big workout shaker/drinker, UFC 156: Aldo/Edgar 2 disc DVD and a couple of UFC pencils. Very happy :)
 
Goody Bag arrived this morning for fantasy fighter. Was a UFC Towel, big workout shaker/drinker, UFC 156: Aldo/Edgar 2 disc DVD and a couple of UFC pencils. Very happy :)

Something arrived at my folks' house for me as well. I'm assuming/hoping it's the same thing.
 
Shane del Rosario, has had a heart attack and is not expected to make it.

Some places have said he has died, but he is still on life support

Sad
 
Shane del Rosario, has had a heart attack and is not expected to make it.

Some places have said he has died, but he is still on life support

Sad

I think his life support gets switched off today if there's no sign of brain activity. Very sad indeed, he had two heart attacks.

TUF finale on tomorrow and I don't really care about it but Maynard vs Diaz should be good. I actually can't wait to see Rousey vs Tate in December, Meisha Tate just annoys me and I hope Ronda mangles her arm again.
 
Rory MacDonald says he had lost his passion for fighting, but has it back now that he's lost to Lawler. Claims he'd been in a malaise starting with the Penn fight.
 
I really dislike Diaz but that was a great finish.

Which one? Or just both of them? I think they're hilarious and really fun to watch, I guess I can see why people wouldn't like them. But Nick Diaz in the run up to fighting GSP was just genius, accidental genius, but it was funny as feck.

:lol:

 
The Diaz brothers are brilliant, their press conferences and interviews crack me up most of the time.
 
Just the saw ultimate fighter finals... the winners of the season can fight in the real UFC?? its like a reality show?? or its just for the Harley Davidson?

never saw girls fighting like that before... the second fights of girls (i think) really shocked me... one girl just beat the crap out of the other but she was still going. feck her face at the end... shocking shit.

nice fights overall. the last fight ending, crazy.

Maynard was out on his feet for about 10 seconds before the ref stepped in, brutal to watch.

they took too long to stop this one, but one of the girls fight was stopped in the last second of a round, pissed me of, i wanted to see a proper girl Knock out (big chances for it to happen in the next round xd)