The MMA thread

[Pscholes18]

Domination....although I thought Valenina was better on the ground.

 

[Pscholes18]

Jones will walk through Miocic

 

[Raoul]

Good job from Val. Not sure what the next step is given that most probably don't want a 4th Grasso fight after she lost every single round. Probably a title fight with Manon Fiorot. Alternatively, she could go for a champ champ by fighting Pennington (who she would probably beat).

 

[sizzling sausages]

Can't see O Malley winning here, think Merab will just take him down and keep him down.

 

[whitbyviking]

She didn’t look herself there Shevchenko, her old self at any rate. Wonder if it is just down to her throwing the first fight away by switching off and then the extremely dodgy second decision playing on her mind?

She should beat Pennington easily but not sure how popular she is with White and if he wants to tie up two belts in the women’s with a champ champ. She’s getting older now and defenses for two belts would tie them up for 2yrs +

 

[Desert Eagle]

Valentina is such a badass. Bullet left no doubt who is the better fighter. I was thinking who would you guys have as the women's mma mount Rushmore?

Contenders would be Cyborg, Nunes, Rousey, Joanna, Valentina and possibly Gina.

I'd go with Cyborg , Nunes, Valentina and Joanna

 

[Raoul]

Valentina is such a badass. Bullet left no doubt who is the better fighter. I was thinking who would you guys have as the women's mma mount Rushmore?

Contenders would be Cyborg, Nunes, Rousey, Joanna, Valentina and possibly Gina.

I'd go with Cyborg , Nunes, Valentina and Joanna

I'd agree with those four. Rousey would probably also make it based on what she did to promote the women's game.

 

[Raoul]

Well played by Merab.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Merab is a very deserving champ. Nice humble guy too. Umar will be a tough test though especially now that he basically admitted his gut is his weak point.

 

[bosskeano]

that Merab/O'Malley fight shows the good and bad side of MMA

the elite level of ability to wrestle but also just how boring it is to watch them spend 2/3 of the time on the ground really not doing much

 

[whitbyviking]

that Merab/O'Malley fight shows the good and bad side of MMA

the elite level of ability to wrestle but also just how boring it is to watch them spend 2/3 of the time on the ground really not doing much

It certainly makes grim viewing when someone gets wrestlefecked for most of the fight.

 

[Shane88]

Jee. Sus. Christ.

 

[Red Rash]

It certainly makes grim viewing when someone gets wrestlefecked for most of the fight.

What do you think is the solution here?

From a competitive standpoint I guess it shows high level of skill from the wrestler but from an entertainment standpoint it can get very boring.

I'm inclined to say the referee should stand up the competitors quicker and maybe the judges should reward ground control even less that they do now.

 

[NM]

What do you think is the solution here?

From a competitive standpoint I guess it shows high level of skill from the wrestler but from an entertainment standpoint it can get very boring.

I'm inclined to say the referee should stand up the competitors quicker and maybe the judges should reward ground control even less that they do now.

I don't enjoy wrestling.. but this is a sport, not entertainment.. If you want stand up, watch Muay Thai or Boxing IMO.

That being said, some of the score cards (Sean winning two rounds WTF - only chance was R5) mean its a mockery of a sport anyway

 

[whitbyviking]

What do you think is the solution here?

From a competitive standpoint I guess it shows high level of skill from the wrestler but from an entertainment standpoint it can get very boring.

I'm inclined to say the referee should stand up the competitors quicker and maybe the judges should reward ground control even less that they do now.

I don't enjoy wrestling.. but this is a sport, not entertainment.. If you want stand up, watch Muay Thai or Boxing IMO.

That being said, some of the score cards (Sean winning two rounds WTF - only chance was R5) mean its a mockery of a sport anyway

Genuinely don't know what the solution is, think there would end up being too much subjectivity in anything to "fix" the issue.

As you both say Wrestling is a valid approach in MMA so it's hard to argue against people using wrestling in fights. As you say the only way to address it is either standing them up, maybe based on how active they are when in control, ie. G&P vs just holding them down, or if they don't reward it in the scoring. Both these options are very subjective though and can easily see that approach leading to controversy.

Think the only way to deal with it is for the fighters to learn how to deal with it "do a Masvidal on Askren", or watch another sport. Looking at White's face when he put the belt on Merab, and more so Belal, I wonder if he will be more and more reticent to sign dominant wrestlers.

 

[Desert Eagle]

What do you think is the solution here?

From a competitive standpoint I guess it shows high level of skill from the wrestler but from an entertainment standpoint it can get very boring.

I'm inclined to say the referee should stand up the competitors quicker and maybe the judges should reward ground control even less that they do now.

There is no solution other than what the UFC is already doing. Rewarding stand up fighters way more than wrestlers and making damage the number one scoring criteria. Standing them up is the worst solution for the competitive integrity of the sport.

 

[Fortitude]

There is a solution, but it makes the sport a lot more brutal so should not be an option.

Under the current rules, wrestling has a huge advantage, and it’s not a coincidence to see how many dominant wrestlers have been champions over any other discipline.

 

[AfonsoAlves]

This is only a problem I feel in the lighter weight divisions.

For some reason, TDD is specifically bad in LW and FW.

LW is really a funny one because you have some incredible D1 Wrestlers like Gaethje, Chandler and such, who instead choose "Feck it, I'm going to stand and bang".

FW didn't really have top wrestlers for a very long time, prior to now it was only Chad Mendes? off the top of my head in the past decade.

 

[bosskeano]

let them wrestle but they have to be active instead of just pinning the guy and keeping him under ground control

if they become passive, especially the guy on top, then you make them stand up

 

[Desert Eagle]

This is only a problem I feel in the lighter weight divisions.

For some reason, TDD is specifically bad in LW and FW.

LW is really a funny one because you have some incredible D1 Wrestlers like Gaethje, Chandler and such, who instead choose "Feck it, I'm going to stand and bang".

FW didn't really have top wrestlers for a very long time, prior to now it was only Chad Mendes? off the top of my head in the past decade.

It's not just the lighter weight classes. There was the heavyweight kickboxer who just came over and was building a little hype but got wrestlefecked to death in his last outing.

Gaethje and Chandler are great examples of the UFCs incentive structure working perfectly though. This applies more to Chandler than Gaethje because Justin has always been a wild bastard who wants to entertain but Chandler basically changed his fighting style once he joined the UFC because he knows what the boss wants. Even after three losses out of four with the one win being over the shell of Tony Ferguson he is still going into basically a contender fight. That's why Diego Lopes has been pushed like crazy in the rankings compared to someone like Paddy Pimblet. All the UFC has to do is make it extremely difficult for wrestlers to get to the belt( see Merab, Belal) and extremely easy for highlight reel KO artists to get to the belt (see O'Malley, Periera) along with (almost) only giving bonuses to striking finishes.

 

[Ole90+3]

It's not just the lighter weight classes. There was the heavyweight kickboxer who just came over and was building a little hype but got wrestlefecked to death in his last outing.

Gaethje and Chandler are great examples of the UFCs incentive structure working perfectly though. This applies more to Chandler than Gaethje because Justin has always been a wild bastard who wants to entertain but Chandler basically changed his fighting style once he joined the UFC because he knows what the boss wants. Even after three losses out of four with the one win being over the shell of Tony Ferguson he is still going into basically a contender fight. That's why Diego Lopes has been pushed like crazy in the rankings compared to someone like Paddy Pimblet. All the UFC has to do is make it extremely difficult for wrestlers to get to the belt( see Merab, Belal) and extremely easy for highlight reel KO artists to get to the belt (see O'Malley, Periera) along with (almost) only giving bonuses to striking finishes.

Paddy hasn’t been given a decent fighter because Dana knows he’ll get slept with his brutal head positioning. Dana wanting to ride his hype train for as long as possible. He should have lost that decision against Gordon

 

[AfonsoAlves]

It's not just the lighter weight classes. There was the heavyweight kickboxer who just came over and was building a little hype but got wrestlefecked to death in his last outing.

Gaethje and Chandler are great examples of the UFCs incentive structure working perfectly though. This applies more to Chandler than Gaethje because Justin has always been a wild bastard who wants to entertain but Chandler basically changed his fighting style once he joined the UFC because he knows what the boss wants. Even after three losses out of four with the one win being over the shell of Tony Ferguson he is still going into basically a contender fight. That's why Diego Lopes has been pushed like crazy in the rankings compared to someone like Paddy Pimblet. All the UFC has to do is make it extremely difficult for wrestlers to get to the belt( see Merab, Belal) and extremely easy for highlight reel KO artists to get to the belt (see O'Malley, Periera) along with (almost) only giving bonuses to striking finishes.

Using one example of a heavyweight having shit TDD doesn't make the whole division lacking.

Let's look at Heavyweight -

Jon Jones (GOAT MMA Wrestler) (Controversial, but Jones has never been outwrestled in a UFC fight before, and Khabib got kinda outwrestled by Gleison Tibau)
Stipe (D1 All American Wrestler with excellent TDD)
Curtis Blaydes( NCAA Champ)
Aspinall (Excellent Wrestling, though somewhat unproven over a prolonged period)

In Recent years you've had the likes of Cormier and Lewis, one who is an olympian and one who magically just gets up everytime he gets taken down.

Light Heavyweight recent years:

Jon Jones
Cormier
Reyes
Gustaffsson
Glover
Blachowicz

Middleweight:

Jacare, Weidman, Romero, Whittaker (Amazing TDD), etc

Now do the same for Featherweight:

From 2014 to 2024, name the wrestlers:

Topiura
Chad Mendes
If you realllllyyy want to stretch that out, Frankie Edgar I guess....

 

[Raoul]

It certainly makes grim viewing when someone gets wrestlefecked for most of the fight.

That's a problem for O'Malley. There are other good fighters who are very good thwarting takedowns so they don't get stuck on the ground for the whole round.

 

[Raoul]

Jon Jones (GOAT MMA Wrestler) (Controversial, but Jones has never been outwrestled in a UFC fight before, and Khabib got kinda outwrestled by

I think one of the reasons the likes of Jones, GSP, and Anderson Silva are always mentioned in the goat convo is they had the unique appeal of being both very good strikers who also had world class ground games. This is in contrast to some of the others who were seen mainly as submission specialists.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Using one example of a heavyweight having shit TDD doesn't make the whole division lacking.

Let's look at Heavyweight -

Jon Jones (GOAT MMA Wrestler) (Controversial, but Jones has never been outwrestled in a UFC fight before, and Khabib got kinda outwrestled by Gleison Tibau)
Stipe (D1 All American Wrestler with excellent TDD)
Curtis Blaydes( NCAA Champ)
Aspinall (Excellent Wrestling, though somewhat unproven over a prolonged period)

In Recent years you've had the likes of Cormier and Lewis, one who is an olympian and one who magically just gets up everytime he gets taken down.

Light Heavyweight recent years:

Jon Jones
Cormier
Reyes
Gustaffsson
Glover
Blachowicz

Middleweight:

Jacare, Weidman, Romero, Whittaker (Amazing TDD), etc

Now do the same for Featherweight:

From 2014 to 2024, name the wrestlers:

Topiura
Chad Mendes
If you realllllyyy want to stretch that out, Frankie Edgar I guess....

just in the current ufc rankings you have Movsar, Sterling and Bryce Mitchell. There have been plenty of decent wrestlers at the lower weight classes. Not to mention the likes of Aldo who though not a wrestler has excellent take down defense.