Should Volk have attacked Islam's legs more ?
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- Thread starter Fortitude
- Start date
I thought Volkanovski had edged it, shows what I know. Two excellent fighters though.
Yeah I found that strange. I know that a body triangle is a very dominant position but Volk was actually the one with the activity from there on in in that round. Although I do think Islam was winning on the feet on that round before the takedown. Such a high level fight.
Think the size difference made a huge difference here. Even though they hurt each other roughly the same amount of times, Islam's strikes in general seemed to land harder than Volks. No doubt in my mind that if they were the same size then Volk would win clearly. Its why I think he's still P4P number 1. Lets see Islam go up a division and put on the same sort of performance Volk did tonight.
The difference between Islam and Khabib imo is that Khabib is a bit more suffocatingly dominant on the ground and would've probably done more damage to Volk and definitely not let him back up several times as Islam did. Islam is the better stand up striker imo.
Either way, I think Volk has demonstrated the beginnings of a template to defeat top level Dagestani Sambo
Either way, I think Volk has demonstrated the beginnings of a template to defeat top level Dagestani Sambo
If you could couple what Volk showed tonight with real one shot power. I think that's the winning formula. Hell I think Volk could win a rematch so he's not even far away himself. He doesn't have that fight ending power at Featherweight so he was unlikely to KO Islam tonight but he definitely hurt him at least twice. I think what helped Khabib too is that he had a stupidly strong chin that he could be more reckless to get the takedowns than Islam. His pressure and threat alone could just zap people's energy.
Yep, agreed. The challenge for any of Islam's opponents is to be measured in their striking because going in cavalier will almost certainly lead to a take down and a lost round.
Nah the end was rough for Islam so I think that swayed opinions.
The fight itself Islam clearly won but Volk made Islam look human in that last round
Think he only went all out in evaluating risk vis-a-vis truly working in range in the final round, when he really had to where he confirmed he could contest to get back to his feet if taken down. So his tentative approach prior was perhaps a sounder strategy, but at the same time, Islam was absolutely there for the taking with how he reacted to those inside leg kicks - maybe 3 or 4 in the same area would've been enough, either to severely compromise him or take him completely.
Volk frustrated me because he wanted to put on a show for hid home audience instead of being his usual, methodical self. He could've chopped and kept it long and reaped huge reward for it, but instead, he was headhunting and taking unnecessary risks, which saw him clipped on entry more than once.
Had a fair amount on him, so every time he did that, I'm thinking: 'noooo... just be yourself!' Hadn't factored in he'd try force the fight from the outset. Think he got himself behind on points because of that.
Incredible fight!
Islam was on his last breath there at the end, soo tired, could barely walk straight afterwards.
Volk talking with Bisping like they just played some chess or something, his cardio is freakish!
Islam was on his last breath there at the end, soo tired, could barely walk straight afterwards.
Volk talking with Bisping like they just played some chess or something, his cardio is freakish!
Islam clearly won. Ending of round five plus the crowd, and obvious bias, swayed peoples opinions.
Great card. Glad Yair won. One of my faves. It's like watching real life Tekken.
Volk did great, as did Islam. Why is there always... ALWAYS one idiot judge? It's like there's always an intern on the panel
Volk did great, as did Islam. Why is there always... ALWAYS one idiot judge? It's like there's always an intern on the panel
Damn, tremendous respect for Volk, he's nothing short of incredible. And Islam is as well. Great match, no bullshit or fake animosity, just elite level fighting and keeping it real afterwards.
Meh, you may be right in the sense that the long periods of ground control time might have swung some rounds for Islam. The way this comes across though is incredibly dismissive of the fact that Islam potentially edged him on the feet anyway and is a superbly well rounded fighter these days.
Volk won round 4?
Yep. Volk outstruck Islam almost 3 to 1 in the 4th round.
Islam only had back control but did absolutely nothing with it. No submissions attempts, no ground and pound, nada. Just holding on for dear life while getting punched in the face.
Volk also won round 2.
49-46 Volk was arguably, the correct score for the fight. Worst case scenario, 48-47 Volk.
But as we’ve seen repeatedly over the years in MMA judging, in fights considered very close, perceived ground control often makes the difference in the final scorecards.
if you know anything about MMA and I mean anything he owned Volk that round he got dominated and couldn’t get out of his grapple at all. The frustration was visible
to say Volk won the 4th round is more ridiculous than saying Volk won that fight
Accurate points but if Volk was bigger he likely would be taller which would make him easier to take down as well right
How to beat Islam
(tldlr - a flailing counterpunch)
I doubt today's Islam would leave himself exposed like this)
(tldlr - a flailing counterpunch)
I doubt today's Islam would leave himself exposed like this)
I think he'll wish he'd risked a few more leg kicks when he watches the fight back. Regarding the headhunting, he got countered hard a few times when he went to the body which I think discouraged him on that front. Also, I'm generally dubious about the listed reaches for the fighters and this was no exception - it really didn't look like Volk had a slight reach advantage, and he had problems both doing anything from distance and closing range. Leg kicks risky, getting countered off body shots, jab falling short. He did great overall but getting his offence going from range was tough for him. Ultimately, his assessment that he underestimated Islam's striking and Islam underestimated his wrestling rings true. I had a rush of blood to the head and stuck a whole £5 on Volk before the fight, so I feel a small measure of your pain!
Checked the result but only just watched the main fight and wow, I could watch these two go all day. Like most, I thought Islam would be too much for Volk on the ground, but that wasn't the case at all. Same goes for Volk on the feet. I had it 48 47 for Islam. Hopefully they run it back one day.
Caught a small segment of Joe Rogan's stream and him and his 3 guests all seemed convinced Volk had easily done enough, which was surprising.
Caught a small segment of Joe Rogan's stream and him and his 3 guests all seemed convinced Volk had easily done enough, which was surprising.
I understand the reasoning for not wanting to commit to those kicks too early, but at the same time, they were demonstrably making Islam wince and turning his whole body each time they connected; it doesn't take many of those to deaden the nerves and make movement really difficult, thus rendering half of a striking and wrestling arsenal redundant - someone in his [Volk's] corner should've at least been in his ear about this because it was a path to victory in and of itself.
I hadn't expected Islam to be as good in the standup, nor had I thought Volk would be so good at getting back off the ground (if in the centre of the octagon), but I think both fighters were quite surprised by the other in this sense, which is why the feeling out process and tentative respect Volk had made sense, which is why I can't begrudge him not working on those inside strikes as much as it was apparent what an impact they were having.
What I am pissed at, however, is Volk not fighting long - his low kicks inside and outside the lower leg are a staple and he wasn't using them because he wanted to put on a show. I'd be mildly annoyed in general, but with £250 put on him, the risks he was taking for the sake of entertaining his home crowd grated on me and I don't think he'd have done that if the fight was not in his back yard.
re. reach. The problem Volk had in that regard is he didn't want to fully extend as that commitment is also an inlet and we saw how quick Islam was to switch with that perfect entrance and takedown he did; Volk has to stand wide and lean to use his full extension due to his height and how the punches come off/through the shoulder; a taller man hasn't got to commit as much to utilise his reach so I blame him less in regards to that than I do for not using his feet at full extension, which is safer and has a tried and tested exit strategy he's used to get himself to the top. I feel he could have laid traps with his legs and reduced risk by a greater extent than he was doing.
It was a very good fight, but Volk got a bit too caught up in the moment and was less cerebral than usual, which proved costly, to him and me!
Some exceptional striking and athleticism in Yair's performance. Seems to have lost much of his recklessness in attack, and is much more measured. His takedown defence has gone up another notch too. His match with Volk next, should it get made, will be epic.
Good analysis. Agree with all of that.
You could see Emmett just had no answer for the speed Yair can flow through his attacks - left kick to the face, followed by a right using the momentum of his left leg going backwards, then same thing straight after. That said, just before the submission Yair did wedge his toes into the cage to stop Emmett coming through and the ref was a bit chilled about pulling them out.
Watching Volk/Islam back I am a bit surprised they didn't give it to Volk or give it as a draw, I feel like they have to reward activity/aggression a lot more than ground control when nothing comes from the ground control. I don't think Makhachev had to do a great deal to hit Volk (as in I am bit confused by the idea he showcased great striking in this specific fight) because he's got a lot of height on him and Volk was coming in guns blazing, it's very different to be a great striker who is reactive versus someone who is proactive and takes all the risk, like a Yair or Adesaya type fighter.
Intriguing fight I think. Yair fights really long with the constant bouncing and non-stop kicking and is quick to boot, Volk will have to be at his absolute best to outstrike him. Would probably be best served mixing in some grappling but then again Yair has finished both Ortega and Emmett on the ground in his last couple...
If that fight happens (which I'm sure it will) and Volk beats him decisively, there's nothing left for him at 145 IMO - especially if Holloway beats Arnold Allen. Should unify and then move up to '55 permanently to chase the Islam rematch.
Jeez, Hooker woke up bit pissed
yeah it was pretty obvious. Still was closer than any of his previous 12 fights.
Hooker should focus on himself and actually winning a UFC fight for a change.
I hope he's not planning on doing a Colby and creating a "character" for promotional purposes.
Even then, a character only works if you can back it up. However we feel about Colby, the dude can fight. Hooker is just a two bit ho at the moment.
Just re-watched it, my assessment is this - there are a few situations where we don't really have a defined idea of who 'wins' these exchanges which really opens this fight (amongst many) up to a greater degree of subjectivity and variance of opinion. Examples of this:
I personally think Islam edged the fight, the grappling exchanges were really fairly even all things considered - I have to give enormous credit to Volk's counter-grappling which was so good at points and in general that I found it hard to split them in this regard. But I actually feel like Islam got the better of it on the feet, the cleaner, more eye-catching shots were mostly his, and mostly the counter left hand.
Rounds 1 and 5 I thought were pretty clear to either man. 2 and 3 were toss-ups that could have gone either way. Round 4 is a difficult one because of the last point I made.
Would love to see a rematch though, think it's well deserved and there's no more intriguing match-up for Islam than Volk at the moment.
Wish Beneil/Charles was earlier than May. If it were next month, you could probably do the winner vs Islam in July/Aug, Volk could be back around the same time if not earlier against Yair, and assuming they both come through those match-ups it sets up another massive fight for later in the year.
- There's a few times where Islam gets Volk half down, or fully down but not in a particularly clean fashion, and Volk pops back up pretty quickly. How would you score that?
- Times where Islam gets back control on the feet on the cage, holds Volk there in what is considered a dominant position, but Volk does well to fight the hands and eventually gets clear. Who comes out on top in this situation?
- In round 4 where Islam had his back in the body triangle but Volk punching backwards landed noticeably more shots. Do you favour the volume of strikes landed for Volk here - despite the lack of power and damage - or do you favour Islam for getting a dominant position and holding it - despite not really threatening with a submission and getting outlanded?
I personally think Islam edged the fight, the grappling exchanges were really fairly even all things considered - I have to give enormous credit to Volk's counter-grappling which was so good at points and in general that I found it hard to split them in this regard. But I actually feel like Islam got the better of it on the feet, the cleaner, more eye-catching shots were mostly his, and mostly the counter left hand.
Rounds 1 and 5 I thought were pretty clear to either man. 2 and 3 were toss-ups that could have gone either way. Round 4 is a difficult one because of the last point I made.
Would love to see a rematch though, think it's well deserved and there's no more intriguing match-up for Islam than Volk at the moment.
Wish Beneil/Charles was earlier than May. If it were next month, you could probably do the winner vs Islam in July/Aug, Volk could be back around the same time if not earlier against Yair, and assuming they both come through those match-ups it sets up another massive fight for later in the year.
That's precisely why the fight was harder to score than some have suggested. Volk was striking Islam from his back on the ground. I believe he outstruck him overall as well, although Islam obviously won most of the ground battles.
Salty reactions from some people (not in this thread per se) rooting for Volk are a bit too much for me, though it could also be my mistake for simply reading too much on the wrong sections of twitter which is never good.
Dan Hooker comes across as truly pathetic with his stupid accusations. Israel crying after the fight, I like him and I understand the camaraderie, but take your loss like man, man.
And not even Volkanovski himself thinks he won round 4, bizarre discussion
Islam risked it all, against the most tough opponent imaginable, with nothing to really win or gain. In the most hostile and difficult environment imaginable, fighting a guy who'd never lost in the UFC and probably was already top 10-15 UFC fighters ever before this fight, talk about big balls. He deserves a lot of credit for taking this fight I think, doubt many others would've done this for their first title defense. While Volk on the other hand had almost nothing to lose, and was always going to get more sympathy being the shorter guy. Realistically it wasn't even a massive disadvantage for him, given how incredibly quick he is and has unlimited stamina because of that smaller frame. Not to mention the fact that you just can't submit him, he literally doesn't have a neck to choke.
Dan Hooker comes across as truly pathetic with his stupid accusations. Israel crying after the fight, I like him and I understand the camaraderie, but take your loss like man, man.
And not even Volkanovski himself thinks he won round 4, bizarre discussion
Islam risked it all, against the most tough opponent imaginable, with nothing to really win or gain. In the most hostile and difficult environment imaginable, fighting a guy who'd never lost in the UFC and probably was already top 10-15 UFC fighters ever before this fight, talk about big balls. He deserves a lot of credit for taking this fight I think, doubt many others would've done this for their first title defense. While Volk on the other hand had almost nothing to lose, and was always going to get more sympathy being the shorter guy. Realistically it wasn't even a massive disadvantage for him, given how incredibly quick he is and has unlimited stamina because of that smaller frame. Not to mention the fact that you just can't submit him, he literally doesn't have a neck to choke.
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Bones vs. Gane... Who we got?
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Gane for me.
Jones hasn't fought in 3 years, spent his last years fighting ageing Middleweights and struggle with the first big guy that could match his reach.
Intriguing match anyways... If Jones can somehow put Gane in his back, it's game on.
Dana will be all over this.
Not enough CTE inducing potential for his liking.
ps.
Some Russian with a 23-0 record (tin cans) is making his UFC debut tomorrow. He has 4M followers as well.
We have, potentially, a new Khabib (although Bantamweight)