The fanbase's role in the erosion of standards

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We were spoiled by the Fergie years and we are in a new reality now. We are no longer the big boys or even second or third. We need to get back to regular top 4 places and that is a big step up to where we are now, to even think of being in the big time.
The fans havent eroded standards, the running of the club has over the last decade.
Every trophy win is a big deal now.
 
Standards and reality of where we are, are separate issues. The reality is it's 11 years and counting since last premier league, winning mentality drains. Nobody there from our last league, it took time to create a winning culture and it will take time to get back. We can't expect to win the league with our current squad, they aren't good enough.

The standards I expect are players being professional, committed, putting in a shift and not giving up to the very end. Bouncing back from adversity and showing team spirit. That's the real standard of Manchester United. I don't think some players have done this, not been accountable. Not going to single players out but I've seen it with my own eyes, meters from me this season. Arms flinging up in the air, awful body language and not even running to help teammates. These are things I'll never accept. I wouldn't except it at astro turf, never mind for my club. You got try your best in any endeavor, even if you might not be good enough. No giving up.
 
MancunianAngels said:
The swing in the polls say one thing but the fans within the ground have largely stayed behind him anyway. Even when 4-0 down at Palace.
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Yes, this is true, I don't go to away games anymore, but all homes games, league, cups etc. we are there. The support for the manager and the team is real.
Yes, there are moments of despair when things don't go right, when players don't seem to be always giving of their best, when the manager seems to pick an unbalanced side or fields subs at the wrong time, but the commitment of fans the noise levels are fantastic, 70,000+ virtually every home game supporting their team.
Our away fans deserve a special mention for their dedication and singing the team home, even when we losing 4-0 at Palace.

I start every season with enthusiasm and with joy and excitement and every manager or player who represents my club, represents me, and we have good days and bad days. I don't think the fan base erodes standards, they strive to uphold them and always will.
 
Rolaholic said:
We don't do parades for FA Cups mate, we're not Arsenal.

Great result and feeling/buzz but if that's out most significant day in a decade than we really are a shell of our former selves.

The comeback against P$G in the CL was a bigger moment for us post-Fergie
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Maybe not now but we used to
 
Borninthe80ts said:
It’s these kind of over arching statements that make conversations difficult. I can be measured in my expectations and still hopeful for more. We aren’t at the stage of development where we can make demands beyond where our recent history puts us.

Statements like “ we are Manchester United” doesn’t entitle us to success. Hard work, a progressive plan and time alignment or luck will all have a part to play along the way. Cycles and all that.
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Precisely, the arrogance and entitlement of some I find incredible
 
We rotated out. Our golden period was over when fergies retired. The reality hit for me a year before he went. Once he goes, we're on the slide. I just never saw how far down we would go.
 
Rolaholic said:
We don't do parades for FA Cups mate, we're not Arsenal.

Great result and feeling/buzz but if that's out most significant day in a decade than we really are a shell of our former selves.

The comeback against P$G in the CL was a bigger moment for us post-Fergie
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No it fecking wasn’t.
 
Fans thinking an FA Cup win makes up for finishing 8th in the league playing largely dreadful football is a sure sign of the erosion of standards
 
thisisnottaken1 said:
Exactly. The FA Cup win was a lot better as it actually meant winning a trophy and was over our city rivals.
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Yes that and winning the Europa League were better moments than winning a knockout round in the champions league. Trophies matter in a barren decade.
 
Rolaholic said:
We don't do parades for FA Cups mate, we're not Arsenal.

Great result and feeling/buzz but if that's out most significant day in a decade than we really are a shell of our former selves.

The comeback against P$G in the CL was a bigger moment for us post-Fergie
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:lol:
 
stepic said:
Fans thinking an FA Cup win makes up for finishing 8th in the league playing largely dreadful football is a sure sign of the erosion of standards
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I think you are getting confused. No one says it makes up for it. Its a saving grace in a crap season. Finishing 8th is not acceptable, no one said it was.

So we forget injuries, club getting sold and bark about "standards", sack every manager unless they win the league or CL?
 
romufc said:
So we forget injuries, club getting sold and bark about "standards", sack every manager unless they win the league or CL?
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Yes, you get on with injuries and find solutions. It’s what managers are paid to do.

Ten Hag was relatively insulated from sell process of the club by his own admission and spoke of it bullishly, in fact.

There’s no middle ground between 8th placed finish with negative goal difference and winning league or CL?
 
TsuWave said:
Yes, you get on with injuries and find solutions. It’s what managers are paid to do.

Ten Hag was relatively insulated from sell process of the club by his own admission and spoke of it bullishly, in fact.

There’s no middle ground between 8th placed finish with negative goal difference and winning league or CL?
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No, I am referring to those who keep barking on standards. So which one is it? Is the standard top 4 with +30 GD or winning trophies?

What is your definition of Manutd standards?
 
Giggsy13 said:
Yes that and winning the Europa League were better moments than winning a knockout round in the champions league. Trophies matter in a barren decade.
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As was the 4-3 over Liverpool in the FA Cup quarter-finals and the League Cup win. These moments have been few and far between, so I’ve been cherishing them.
 
Skills said:
I understand that the prevailing sentiment is that 'as long as the Glazers remain, nothing will improve', emphasizing their decade-long influence.
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Phrasing it like this betrays you have a limited grasp of what has actually been going on. The Glazers' influence didn't begin the moment Sir AF retired. It began in 2005, and it was actually from 2005-2013 that it did the most harm.

That was when the interest payments were the most crippling, that's when the Ronaldo money evaporated just to bandaid the financial bleeding and that's when the foundations of the current situation were laid. It was those 8 years of severe under-investment in the squad that eroded our competitive advantage. SAF papered the cracks with his pure genius, but the damage was done and we still haven't recovered.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Goldbridge brainwashed people to ten Hag in.
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He's an idiot who doesn't understand the process. He just focuses on the his wishes and his preferred outcome.
Ienos clearly pressed the reset button and interviewed several candidates for the role, including ETH. I didn't think he would be pick but he was, fair play to him.
I'll back him and we'll see how the transfer market goes. Hopefully his role is significantly diminished in this regard.
 
romufc said:
No, I am referring to those who keep barking on standards. So which one is it? Is the standard top 4 with +30 GD or winning trophies?

What is your definition of Manutd standards?
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The standard at United should be league titles, but most people understand we’ve slipped in terms of our capacity to compete - and aren’t currently expecting that from a manager. When people speak of standards being lowered they’re most likely referring to the notion of a 8th place finish being deemed acceptable in any capacity to the point people are cheerleading the manager that has presided over our worst prem season ever. I don’t even think these things need explaining, it just feels as though people are argumentative and want to feel good about the “back the manager” thing they got going on.
 
The erosion started when the Glazers bought the club, most of us just didn't realise it.
 
TsuWave said:
The standard at United should be league titles, but most people understand we’ve slipped in terms of our capacity to compete - and aren’t currently expecting that from a manager. When people speak of standards being lowered they’re most likely referring to the notion of a 8th place finish being deemed acceptable in any capacity to the point people are cheerleading the manager that has presided over our worst prem season ever. I don’t even think these things need explaining, it just feels as though people are argumentative and want to feel good about the “back the manager” thing they got going on.
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I dont think I have read 1 post that has said 8th is acceptable.

Again, so people understand our standards have slipped, so why bark on about standards ? Clearly the standards are different, you have a standard that is different to someone else. By reading above, it seems your standards have slipped to top 4? Why is that?

No it just feels like people keep barking about standards when they cant explain what their standard is, like you saying your standards have slipped to top 4 and no trophy.
 
TsuWave said:
The standard at United should be league titles, but most people understand we’ve slipped in terms of our capacity to compete - and aren’t currently expecting that from a manager. When people speak of standards being lowered they’re most likely referring to the notion of a 8th place finish being deemed acceptable in any capacity to the point people are cheerleading the manager that has presided over our worst prem season ever. I don’t even think these things need explaining, it just feels as though people are argumentative and want to feel good about the “back the manager” thing they got going on.
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This is my feeling too.

I can't for the life of me, understand how people can look back on the season we just had (which, incidentally started to show signs in the previous season, just before the League Cup final) and think its anywhere near acceptable for a Manchester United manager. How they are not demanding more from him, just like they are the players and the owners is beyond me.

Injuries, takeover, bad Glazers excuse after excuse after excuse. Occam's razor suggests that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one, and in this case the simplest explanation is that ETH is just a bad manager.

I'm starting to feel like the majority of the fans like to play the victim - oh we had a good run, we were spoiled, this is our lot in the footballing world, we should just accept mediocrity, woe is me.

Its truly bizarre.
 
Salford_Red83 said:
This is my feeling too.

I can't for the life of me, understand how people can look back on the season we just had (which, incidentally started to show signs in the previous season, just before the League Cup final) and think its anywhere near acceptable for a Manchester United manager. How they are not demanding more from him, just like they are the players and the owners is beyond me.

Injuries, takeover, bad Glazers excuse after excuse after excuse. Occam's razor suggests that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one, and in this case the simplest explanation is that ETH is just a bad manager.

I'm starting to feel like the majority of the fans like to play the victim - oh we had a good run, we were spoiled, this is our lot in the footballing world, we should just accept mediocrity, woe is me.

Its truly bizarre.
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Its Bizzare that fans like you keep saying thinks like last season was acceptable. Can you show me posts by fans suggesting that last season was acceptable ? Who has said, yes last season was good and accepted?
Everyone is demanding more from him, you are just stuck on this notion that if you back the manager = blind loyalty, when in reality its not.

So you have standards of winning titles, we will be sacking a the manager every season if we were to go by your standards.

The problem with some fans is they keep going on about standards on the football pitch, demanding PL and CL titles from the manager.... or sack him. Well, you need to demand those standards from the club first.

I mean if we sacked Ten Hag, what manager would get us winning the league next season?
 
If you think fans were bad this season with having no standards/being excuse making machines, imagine how bad it’ll get if the failure continues and they have to battle with the responsibility that it was their collective sentiment that bullied Ineos into the managerial u turn.
 
Salford_Red83 said:
This is my feeling too.

I can't for the life of me, understand how people can look back on the season we just had (which, incidentally started to show signs in the previous season, just before the League Cup final) and think its anywhere near acceptable for a Manchester United manager. How they are not demanding more from him, just like they are the players and the owners is beyond me.

Injuries, takeover, bad Glazers excuse after excuse after excuse. Occam's razor suggests that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one, and in this case the simplest explanation is that ETH is just a bad manager.

I'm starting to feel like the majority of the fans like to play the victim - oh we had a good run, we were spoiled, this is our lot in the footballing world, we should just accept mediocrity, woe is me.

Its truly bizarre.
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You should be able to understand. It isn't that bizarre. It's a matter of opinion.

This season has been inherently complex. I have my view but I'm under no illusion it's the clear and obvious decision.
 
hobbers said:
If you think fans were bad this season with having no standards/being excuse making machines, imagine how bad it’ll get if the failure continues and they have to battle with the responsibility that it was their collective sentiment that bullied Ineos into the managerial u turn.
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No it wasn't fan sentiment that saved ETH. Even after the FA Cup final it was at best 50/50 in the fanbase to keep him. This decision is 100% on Ineos. If he succeeds they get the credit and if not they will be to blame.
 
Desert Eagle said:
No it wasn't fan sentiment that saved ETH. Even after the FA Cup final it was at best 50/50 in the fanbase to keep him. This decision is 100% on Ineos. If he succeeds they get the credit and if not they will be to blame.
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It definitely played a part. Obviously Ineos are ultimately to blame, but it's already a given that they are indecisive and scared of taking responsibility. So with owners like that fans can become complicit in decisions. Just like Spanish football fans are complicit in a manager getting sacked when they bring out the white hankies.
 
stepic said:
Fans thinking an FA Cup win makes up for finishing 8th in the league playing largely dreadful football is a sure sign of the erosion of standards
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Not really. Your viewpoint is an indicator of an erosion in standards of what a fan should be.

That’s not being all Top Red or whatever people say.

8th and an FA Cup win that saw us humble/embarass Liverpool and beat this City team in the final…

Far better than a season finishing 4th, with a quarter final CL exit and similar in both domestic cups.

Of course our expectations should be to win the biggest prizes. But celebrating minor victories for a few years isn’t some small time mentality. It’s just perspective.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Not really. Your viewpoint is an indicator of an erosion in standards of what a fan should be.

That’s not being all Top Red or whatever people say.

8th and an FA Cup win that saw us humble/embarass Liverpool and beat this City team in the final…

Far better than a season finishing 4th, with a quarter final CL exit and similar in both domestic cups.

Of course our expectations should be to win the biggest prizes. But celebrating minor victories for a few years isn’t some small time mentality. It’s just perspective.
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Just stood up and applauded on the train mate.
 
I understand that the majority of fans don't have the expectations of the Fergie era and the standards and expectations have slipped but there's a reason for that. I think fans need to be realistic in looking at our team and squad and realising we're not as good as we were and we're quite a way off challenging for major honours. Hopefully a change in the recruitment structure can change that but what do people expect with the current squad ? Do people think we'd win the treble if Pep came in tomorrow ?
 
hobbers said:
It definitely played a part. Obviously Ineos are ultimately to blame, but it's already a given that they are indecisive and scared of taking responsibility. So with owners like that fans can become complicit in decisions. Just like Spanish football fans are complicit in a manager getting sacked when they bring out the white hankies.
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I'm not buying that. How can it play a part when 50% of us wanted him sacked? Fans can influence owners and clubs for sure but in this case there was no fan pressure on Ineos. No white hankies or glazerout style demonstrations. They were given credit by the fans to make a decision either way and now they've chosen.
 
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