We literally beat Spurs 2 weeks beforehand.
The fanbase's role in the erosion of standards
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Is that considered an achievement?
On second thought, when you are expected to finish in the bottom half, I guess it is.
Nope. Pretty sure you were in the minority of people who thought we were going to finish bottom half though. We were awful under Rangnick, also conceding 4 goals vs multiple teams, but we still finished 6th. Not an achievement but maybe relax with the hyperbole?
It's unreal isn't it.
Absolutely baffling, and I can only imagine people who believe it either didn't watch the games, weren't around at the time, or have simply forgotten.
They probably have bought into the myth that Fergie "knew" he was leaving a team that would literally collapse the second he went and that the next manager would always have a massive struggle to do anything.
When it's pretty likely that a lot of managers could have comfortably steered us top 4.
7th under Everton was just ridiculous.
Consensus all season long is that our squad is shit and we need a mass clearout. Once the summer arrives, it's haram to contemplate selling any player and they're all "good squad options".
I remember when United lost the undefeated at home in Europe record to Fernabache or maybe Galatasaray it was like an outrage. Sir Bobby Charlton gave an interview about how he always thought we’d lose it to a team like Bayern, never in the way we lost it to the team we lost it to.
I also remember United winning matches. SAF coming out in his post match interview and talking like we just lost 3-0.
Then Moyes took over and after the 3-4th defeat you saw in the post matches defeat was being normalised. To some extent it’s the fans who attacked us who were Moyes out very early on that are to blame from the fans side. Thought you was “following the United way” but really a manager not good enough was just lowering standards to protect himself and now it’s a blueprint followed by all his successors.
But also United itself has never had a board with high winning ambitions. The board has always been money first and competing at a high enough level to keep the brand relevant. It’s the managers in Sir Matt Busby and SAF who raised the bar and turned us into elite winning teams.
I also remember United winning matches. SAF coming out in his post match interview and talking like we just lost 3-0.
Then Moyes took over and after the 3-4th defeat you saw in the post matches defeat was being normalised. To some extent it’s the fans who attacked us who were Moyes out very early on that are to blame from the fans side. Thought you was “following the United way” but really a manager not good enough was just lowering standards to protect himself and now it’s a blueprint followed by all his successors.
But also United itself has never had a board with high winning ambitions. The board has always been money first and competing at a high enough level to keep the brand relevant. It’s the managers in Sir Matt Busby and SAF who raised the bar and turned us into elite winning teams.
All is well and good, but most fans in our fanbase haven't moved on from the Manager cult that was created under SAF.
Due to his absolute genius, the board let him run 80% of the club, the other 20% being run by the CEO who was basically on par with SAF.
Modern day football changed all of that and sadly we didn't keep up with the times.
Once SAF and Gill retired, we didn't just lose our manager, we lost all of our operations, negotiations, scouting, etc We basically lost all of our footballing men in 1 go. And I would argue, that up until INEOS, we haven't replaced them since.
At the time, did we hire the best footballing operation minds available? Who did we end up hiring?
Woodward
I don't care who you are as a manager, but it's impossible to succeed here when the CEO changes us from a football club to a wallstreet hedge fund over night.
There is a reason people like Florentino Perez can fire coaches every other year and still compete for the CL. Running a football club isn't just about training and putting your team on the field. It's much much more than that. There are a ton of invisible logistical intricacies that make a top club, that you average fan will never see, and this thread proves that.
How can you be a top club when you have Woody the clown selling us a Disneyland project? Or turning players from bona fide employees who have to perform in order to keep their job into marketing assets that continually get rewarded with exagerated contracts for continually underperforming?
Ridiculous to blame fans for anything at all. Fans turning on each other rather than attributing blame where it would be appropriate. Our consistent support which is the saving grace the club has both financially and week to week is precisely what gives us opportunity to rectify the situation. Otherwise we wouldn't be a sleeping giant, we'd be a mid table team with few prospects.
We've got no standards because we had accountants run a football club. Wrong structure, wrong hires, wrong squad. Standards and culture are set by leadership and the performance they drive. We've not done that so we have low standards. Neither here nor there whether fans show support in different ways, it's for supposedly highly skilled well paid professionals to do the bloody job they're entrusted to do and give fans something to shout about
We've got no standards because we had accountants run a football club. Wrong structure, wrong hires, wrong squad. Standards and culture are set by leadership and the performance they drive. We've not done that so we have low standards. Neither here nor there whether fans show support in different ways, it's for supposedly highly skilled well paid professionals to do the bloody job they're entrusted to do and give fans something to shout about
To those in this thread who have advocated for matchgoing fans taking a leaf out of Madrid's book and showing our displeasure every time United put in a sub-par performance. This is what it looks like when British fans show their displeasure. Slightly less glamorous than waving white hankies.
Edit: original video was taken down and I could only find one from further back in the stands.
Edit: original video was taken down and I could only find one from further back in the stands.
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Agree with most of that, but then seeing TRA serenading Martial after the Newcastle game last month was a low point for me. Should have just ignored him.
It’s worse than that. A lack of humility from the club leads to us rushing every damn rebuild. Signing Ronaldo to accelerate Ole’s project for example.
Until we truly embrace what we’ve become then you can’t build yourself back up with a proper structure. Fingers crossed the new regime know this.
Oh the famous 3y cycle. It worked well for us.
Was David Gill a 'football man' though?
He was a chartered accountant was he not?
He wasn't. The man is a hypocrite and a traitor.
Glazer aside, one of the biggest reasons why we're in this mess.
Worst PL and CL season ever and this fanbase was getting giddy over a new contract for the manager. There is zero accountability at this club.
Agreed.
Was anyone getting giddy? Or are you just getting fans supporting their club mixed up with something else?
That's pretty much it. Not frothing at the mouth to replace the manager = giddy he stayed.
Bizarre time to bump the thread too after a thoroughly deserved win to start the season.
Nice to see positivity and good rationality after a decent win in the first game of the season and an improvement on previous performances.
Sorry that United won the game. I imagine you'd have a happier weekend if the team lost but hey ho.
When is this thread going to be locked?
Should get banned for bumping this thread after a positive pre-season and season opening win. Shocking posting.
Sounds about right.
Samid is still crying because Solksjaer got sacked. Has hated ten Hag since day one.
Bizarre to call the win thorough.
It was deserved, I agree. But that was not a thorough performance, no chance. We were lucky not to go under, and a bit lucky to also get that goal. We played really well for the second part of the first half. The rest of the game was all over the place and could have gone either way. All in all a deserved, but scrappy win.
You're just pushing an agenda by calling someone's post bizarre, whilst your claim is equally bizarre.
I am not defending or agreeing with Samid the Loon. Just pointing out the obvious lunatic agenda on both sides.
The agenda is absolutely brilliant with him. So shameless.
Is the caf in such desperate need for more ad revenue?
October? When ETH gets the sack
Who do you dislike more Poch or ETH?
Top of the league not good enough for some, shame.
I called it "thoroughly deserved", not "thorough", the latter wouldn't make sense. Perhaps English isn't your first language?
You're totally wrong about luck though, we weren't lucky in the slightest, we were well deserving of the win.
That's comprehensive, suggesting we were lucky is far more bizarre. You could even call it "pushing an agenda", or even better, an "obvious lunatic agenda".
I called it "thoroughly deserved", not "thorough", the latter wouldn't make sense. Perhaps English isn't your first language?
You're totally wrong about luck though, we weren't lucky in the slightest, we were well deserving of the win.
That's comprehensive, suggesting we were lucky is far more bizarre. You could even call it "pushing an agenda", or even better, an "obvious lunatic agenda".
The "thoroughly" in "thoroughly deserved" carries implicit meaning that there must have been something thorough about our display to actually deserve it that strongly.
Thorough win does makes perfect sense, by the way.
Perhaps English isn't your first language. That's alright.
Ah yes, the xG factor. So here's the thing... xG is great and all, especially when applied across a multitude of games over a longer stretch of time. But for one-off games, they don't necessarily reflect the true isolated odds. You should check the xG stats from when Liverpool did us 7-0. xG stats are often misleading when applied to single games.
If you actually watched the game instead of just reading about it and watching clips on social media, you'd know that we were in trouble for big parts of that game. Luckily Fulham are not too dangerous in the box, but we gave away a lot more control than what was necessary against such an opponent.
In the end, we deserved the win. If you could read, you'd know I already said I agreed that we did. But "thoroughly deserved" is a such an exaggerated claim. It makes it sound we like thumped them 3-0 with no fight from Fulham. And that wasn't the game at all. A much more truthful description would be something like; "Scrappy, yet deserved win".
If you can say with a straight face that we had no luck today, without clinging to your stats, you obviously didn't watch the game.
So that just shows how you're willing to bend the truth to fit your own agenda. Which is ironic, because you've spent a hell of a lot time on this forum... An unhealthy amount, most would probably agree. And quite a significant proportion of that time is actually spent complaining about other poster's agendas.
Thorough win? Thorough what? It doesn't make sense.
Thoroughly deserved is correct English, thorough win isn't.
This is the funniest thread anyone's ever made.
You know why Utd are bad these days? It's cause the people on Redcafe ignore my excellent posts.
Jesus wept. Wow.
1. "Thorough" is an adjective.
2. Adjectives describe nouns.
3. "A win" is in this specific case a noun. (Not a verb as in "to win")
Alas, a thorough win makes perfect sense.
Just as much as the saying "A thorough beating". Same meaning in footballing terms.
It's weird that you've never once in your life heard a pundit use thorough in that way...
Phrases like "thorough win/victory/beating/thrashing" are quite common in spoken form, and also grammatically correct.
A thorough win logically and linguistically implies that there was little or any doubt of the outcome. E.g. pretty much identical in meaning to thoroughly deserved.
Learn your own language.
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Keep telling yourself that, but you're still wrong.
After a thorough read through this thread I have to say I have thoroughly enjoyed it.
The phrase "thoroughly deserved" means completely deserved. If I was describing our performance as "thorough", I'd have done just that. You're entire premise for the post is based on a strawman due to your poor reading comprehension.
You've even started that we deserved the win multiple times, so you agree with my main point. Which makes your puerile insults and rants about agendas even more bizarre.
Regarding luck, we had a little bit in one instance when Martinez made a mistake and Fulham messed up a pass that would have given them a 1 on 1, but that's more than balanced out by the luck Fulham had with our woeful finishing. If they created a perfect chance from that attack, it still would have been the only big chance they created all match, so we still should have won comfortably given how much more we created.
As for your final paragraph, I think we can safely file it under projection.
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Bang on.
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