The F1 2004 Season thread.

pjaya said:
So a car on the inside have to turn more than the car outside. but in the case of that incident, where a car apporached at a high speed turning on the inside is already the limit for that speed which explained why the whole car will move towards the outside as momentum carries the car on.

however for the car on the outside(monty), the same cannot be applied because the car on the outside need to turn less to make the corner as compared to the car inside. So Monty should have know about it.

If the driver see the car on the inside doesn't slow down when apporaching the turn, he must react period.

Frank Williams applauds Juan for attempting the move, but reckons you always take a risk going around the outside. The more cynical would say that you always take an even bigger risk when Mick is involved, but I digress....

On very cold tyres on a very tight hairpin with little kerb/run off and on a green track, your explaination could work. Basically, you are saying that Mick couldn't physically turn the car enough without drifting wide. I don't think its a steering lock issue, the Tosa hairpin is not that tight a turn, others (Adelaide at Magny-Cours, Loews at Monaco and maybe even La Source at Spa) are tighter, but they get around those with full lock only used for any appreciable length of time at Loews. Racks can be changed, but no in so much as that a car would require full lock around Tosa unless they were on a ridiculously tight line.

By saying that Mick was on a tighter turning circle and therefore would break traction sooner than Juan, you are right, but the point being that Juan was going to make the corner without a problem and stay on the circuit, Michael saw this (don't believe what he says, Juan was all over him for the previous 3 corners), but didn't alter either his speed to compensate for the fact that someone else had aleady taken the outside line. He carried on regardless, knocking Montoya off the circuit. Even taking your view into account, it was still this mistake from Michael that caused the incident. Even if he didn't see Juan (he did) then it was still a mistake, because Juan was there and was there legitamately.

Nobody has suggested that Mick was 'out of control' and headed for the kerb no matter what because of the momentum that his line developed. His line was compromised enough already because of the corner entry when they both went in together - he was not on the racing line and had no claim to it. This is purely an issue of where Mick put the car on the road on the exit of the corner. He could have stayed another car width to the left, there is no doubt about that. This would have ensured that he didn't cut across Montoya'a legitamate line on the exit of the corner. Mick deliberately steered out wide, and held it out wide because he know the Juan had succeeded in holding on to the Williams on the outside and now had a much greater exit speed for the hill. He broke the rules by making contact with the Williams in order to put it on the grass.

He got away with it, which is what rightly annoyed Juan in the press conference afterwards.
 
M$ kept his line, on the inside line but Juanker was going round the outside but ran out of road. The post race conference(just read a fukll transcript of it.

Highlights of it:

Michael had a poor start, he was slow, I went to pass him and he closed the door twice then came straight at me and hit me and put me on the grass. It is disappointing to have racing like that. He hit me on the side but there was no damage. He said he didn't see me, he didn't know I was there. He probably forgot to look.

"I got in front of him before Tosa. He didn't see me? He must be blind or stupid. He pushed me wide. I understand he has to defend his position but how far can he be allowed to do this?"

"Look at Indianapolis last year - there I was given a drive-through and that cost me the championship," he said. "I would be champion now - and he gets away with it. Rules are not fair. They should be for Ferrari and everyone else."

Hilraious, he does it to Button in Australia, no mention of it by him at all by Button but when somebody else does it to him, whine like a kin crybaby. Shite attitude, especially with the finger onn the cooling down lap.
 
MelvinYeo said:
M$ kept his line, on the inside line but Juanker was going round the outside but ran out of road.

No he didn't, the move was going to work until Mick got ratty about it.

MelvinYeo said:
Michael had a poor start, he was slow, I went to pass him and he closed the door twice then came straight at me and hit me and put me on the grass. It is disappointing to have racing like that. He hit me on the side but there was no damage. He said he didn't see me, he didn't know I was there. He probably forgot to look.

"I got in front of him before Tosa. He didn't see me? He must be blind or stupid. He pushed me wide. I understand he has to defend his position but how far can he be allowed to do this?"

Thats exactely what I saw too.
 
Keane16 said:
No he didn't, the move was going to work until Mick got ratty about it.



Thats exactely what I saw too.

By the timehe got to the exit at Tosa he was already on the grass, M$ didn't even have to defend.
 
Keane16 said:

elaborate.

M$ was all the way through ahead, Juanker was on the outside and closuing in but ran out of road and got on the kerbs and the grass.
 
Keane16 said:
Ok,

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I'm not even going to entertain a train of thought the premise of which is that Mick wasn't defending his position.
Lets stay in the real world.

defend as in his line, juanker was outside, m$ inside, no way juanker coul;d've gone through there
 
MelvinYeo said:
defend as in his line, juanker was outside, m$ inside, no way juanker coul;d've gone through there

Well done Melvyn - this is where the coversation started.

go to www.f1onboard.com and look at the in car shot from Micks car, on the way in and look at his steering wheel and hands on the way out - he drove that line to block Juan.
 
Keane16 said:
Well done Melvyn - this is where the coversation started.

go to www.f1onboard.com and look at the in car shot from Micks car, on the way in and look at his steering wheel and hands on the way out - he drove that line to block Juan.
no not at all, he was just driving the line as per normal but juanker went on the outside and onto the kerbs and grass
 
This has gone on long enough.

Mick knocked him off the road, end of. He has form for this kind of thing. Next time Juan throws it up the inside, he'll be using Mick as a brake and Mick has only himself to blame.
 
I reckon it'll be one of the Renaults will do it, as Barcas one of the most aero circuits.

the qualifying today is about the same time as the Chelsea game, so i wont be watching the qualifying.

:(
 
1 1 Michael Schumacher Ferrari 1:15.022

2 3 Juan Pablo Montoya Williams-BMW 1:15.639

3 10 Takuma Sato BAR-Honda 1:15.809

4 7 Jarno Trulli Renault 1:16.144

5 2 Rubens Barrichello Ferrari 1:16.272

6 4 Ralf Schumacher Williams-BMW 1:16.293

7 17 Olivier Panis Toyota 1:16.313

8 8 Fernando Alonso Renault 1:16.422

9 14 Mark Webber Jaguar-Cosworth 1:16.514

10 5 David Coulthard McLaren-Mercedes 1:16.636

11 16 Cristiano da Matta Toyota 1:17.038

12 11 Giancarlo Fisichella Sauber-Petronas 1:17.444

13 6 Kimi Räikkönen McLaren-Mercedes 1:17.445

14 9 Jenson Button BAR-Honda 1:17.575

15 18 Nick Heidfeld Jordan-Ford 1:17.802

16 15 Christian Klien Jaguar-Cosworth 1:17.812

17 12 Felipe Massa Sauber-Petronas 1:17.866

18 20 Gianmaria Bruni Minardi-Cosworth 1:19.817

19 19 Giorgio Pantano Jordan-Ford 1:20.607

20 21 Zsolt Baumgartner Minardi-Cosworth 1:21.470

Jenson had an off in his run, wouldnt be suprised if he filled up his tank before starting in the pits.

Shame about another m$ pole

Spare a thought for Gilles Villeneuve, who died 22 years ago in 1982 at Zolder
 
well MS is simply awesome.

great win for them ferrari.

shame about Bar, but button did well to get 8th.

Mac is a joke :lol:

BMW...less talk about them the better :lol:
 
Well feckeing redwash again, M$ winning even with a fucccccking cracked exhaust pipe, and fecking Barrichello with a two stopper which worked similiarly well for Fisichella.

McLaren, 10th and 11th, well well well. Wont even start on them

Happy to see Juanker retire due to brake problems, it prbabaly caught on fire the brakes.

BAR would be disappointed with that really, 5th and 8th after a lot of promise in testing.

All in all:

:boring:
 
What a shit race. Renault are going to have to use a bit of brainpower if they are ever going to take on Mick. Its not like Micks tactic was an unusual one - he has practically patented that first stop business, everyone knew what he was doing absolutley everyone and yet Renault just rolled over, made their stop and dutifully fell in behind the red car.....what a joke. Either they are in it to win or they are in it to be on telly.

Ferrari had them for speed, no doubt about that, but Renault had the leader of the race. Why not slow the pace a bit before the first stop, Mick is not going to get by, let him pull right up to the Renault, give him something to think about, drive a strange line, force him into some kind of move or else force him to back off, letting the others close up. Renault just played themselves into the Ferrari strategy, much like BAR at Imola. Are they in awe of Ferrari or what? feck about with them, make them work on a Sunday, Mick wouldn't enjoy himself so much if he thought his rivals were fecking him about.

He will probably win anyway of course, but thats no reason to roll over.
 
I was there in 2002 - great crack. The little train station in the actual town of Montmelo is where the Montoya camp were gathered - they can't drink, but the girls sure can dance.
 
Does anyone still have doubts of Schumacher setting a new record this season? The way it's going, even a perfect 18 win season isn't out of the cards.
 
Cal said:
Does anyone still have doubts of Schumacher setting a new record this season? The way it's going, even a perfect 18 win season isn't out of the cards.

He may set the record, but he won't have the perfect season. Something is bound to happen or one of the other teams will pull of a win despite being willing to bend over for Ferrari.

If all else fails then at least they will give Rubens a win or two near the end - seeing as he is incapable of beating Schumacher - or even trying to beat him.
 
Right cnuts, Monaco.


Love this race I do. Seeing that plank Coulthard stuck behind Bernoldi for lap after lap in 2001 is one of the funniest things I have ever seen - and big Ron topped it off for me later on with his silly comments (although Bernoldi doesn't figure anymore in fairness).

Anyway, its another Michael whitewash this weekend. I pray that the monster can cause havoc, but there is to be no repeat of last year. I really hope Renault have learned to put Ferrari under more pressure if they get the chance this weekend (Trulli is a bit of a hero around here). Don't play into the red lads hands. Slow down if you have to, 'kin stop dead if you must, use physical tactics, rub the barriers, play dirty, block blatantly - but for God's sake don't let them have it easy. If you can't feck them over at Monaco, then what are you playing at?

Michael to win - and I'm usually wrong.
 
Hate Monaco if i were to be honest.

Just a track of twist and turns with barriers but nothing much else.

Very little overtaking manouveres there, whoever gets pole will win i guess
 
Keane16 said:
yes, apart from, the hotels, bars, casinos, yachts, tasty women, the Med etc....

The track and racing is shit
 
Keane16 said:
I love it though. If you could win just one race, this would be the one.

I hope it rains.

I'd rather win Spa.

And yes, if it rains i hope for a repeat of M$ in 96

:lol:
 
MelvinYeo said:
I'd rather win Spa.

And yes, if it rains i hope for a repeat of M$ in 96

:lol:

1996 at Monaco was class - only about 4 cars finished. It was looking like 7 until Irvine spun near the end at Portier, blocking the road and getting hit by Salo and Hakkinen I think. They were still classified. Oh, and Mick made a balls of it at the same place on the first lap, and Hill's engine blew up.
See if you can get a picture of Schumacher driving the McLaren in the old Malboro colour scheme ;) - you'll have to trawl the web for that one.
 
Keane16 said:
1996 at Monaco was class - only about 4 cars finished. It was looking like 7 until Irvine spun near the end at Portier, blocking the road and getting hit by Salo and Hakkinen I think. They were still classified. Oh, and Mick made a balls of it at the same place on the first lap, and Hill's engine blew up.
See if you can get a picture of Schumacher driving the McLaren in the old Malboro colour scheme ;) - you'll have to trawl the web for that one.

Aye i remember that, DC had the visor of all his helmets misted up in the warm up and as M$ was still living in Monaco at the time(and still good friends;)), he borrowed DC a helmet. And Panis won his only win then as well.

dc-ms-1996.jpg
 
Keane16 said:
Its bloody hard to get a picture of that.

Two years later he accused DC of trying to kill him - who'd be a racing driver eh?

Good fight that, M$ over to the McLaren garage and looks for DC.

Amazing, Jean Todt was trying to stop him

:lol:

First win for Jordan as well, 1-2
 
Atm, Ralf Schumacher 1st, Kimi second, DC third.

Ralf will lose ten places due to engine cahnge so will Webber.

11 runners gone M$ BOG LAST

:lol:
 
Keane16 said:
he's sandbagging.

First session this morning he did a 14dead - 2 secs quicker than his pre-qually lap.

NAhh, hes fifth.

Ferrari are struggling.

Kiss the win goodbye.

1 7 Jarno Trulli Renault 1:13.985

2 4 Ralf Schumacher Williams-BMW 1:14.345

3 9 Jenson Button BAR-Honda 1:14.396

4 8 Fernando Alonso Renault 1:14.408

5 1 Michael Schumacher Ferrari 1:14.516

6 6 Kimi Räikkönen McLaren-Mercedes 1:14.592

7 2 Rubens Barrichello Ferrari 1:14.716

8 10 Takuma Sato BAR-Honda 1:14.827

9 5 David Coulthard McLaren-Mercedes 1:14.951

10 3 Juan Pablo Montoya Williams-BMW 1:15.039

11 11 Giancarlo Fisichella Sauber-Petronas 1:15.352

12 14 Mark Webber Jaguar-Cosworth 1:15.725

13 17 Olivier Panis Toyota 1:15.859

14 15 Christian Klien Jaguar-Cosworth 1:15.919

15 16 Cristiano da Matta Toyota 1:16.169

16 12 Felipe Massa Sauber-Petronas 1:16.248

17 18 Nick Heidfeld Jordan-Ford 1:16.488

18 19 Giorgio Pantano Jordan-Ford 1:17.443

19 21 Zsolt Baumgartner Minardi-Cosworth 1:20.060

20 20 Gianmaria Bruni Minardi-Cosworth 1:20.115
 
I think you are right. Renault and BAR will bend over.
Also, why did Mick do such a bad lap. Is he carrying a lot of fuel? He knows he can hold back anyone behind him if he makes a good start because they are all afraid of him and Monaco isn't good for overtaking. He makes one less stop and wins easily.
 
M$ was looking on the edge, something you wouldn't do with a heavy car
 
He was very cautious in his first run and made a few mistakes
 
feck ME

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

m$ JAMMING BRAKES IN THE TUNNEL AND JUANKER SMACKED HIM INTO THE BARRIERS AND OUT OF THE RACE

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: