Don't want to get dragged into @Cal? Ronaldo debate, but I would not be surprised if he finds himself in the minority here.
The Double Draft
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
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If it's an age thing I can understand it . Being 5 or 6 years old when Ronaldo was at his peak is forgivable in terms of not really knowing how good he actually was .
Billy has played occasionally as full back indeed, but Gentile has much more experience on the right back for example. He won his first scudetto playing on the left all season later to be replaced by still unpicked but quality player, then diverted on the right but also playing as stopper in 3-5-2.
It's a matter of preference I just like Gentile a bit more
Baresi-Costacurta >> Baresi-Gentile.
Billy has played occasionally as full back indeed, but Gentile has much more experience on the right back for example. He won his first scudetto playing on the left all season later to be replaced by still unpicked but quality player, then diverted on the right but also playing as stopper in 3-5-2.
It's a matter of preference I just like Gentile a bit more
I think it's unfair to either of them to suggest the other is an upgrade . Both unbelievable and both easily top 20 cbs of all time .
Yeah not sure how old he is, but his general knowledge on the game outside of anything CR7 is usually pretty good and I always assumed he is older.
yeah maybe I should've worded it better.
one is proven partnership the other is not of course, but I always liked Gentile a bit more given the 1982 WC and specifically his performances against Zico and Maradona. I think Baresi-Gentile is pretty neat pair much like Gentile-Scirea, but will save it until the games kick off.
I mean Luiz Ronaldo's peak lasted only a couple of years and most people rate him very highly based on "what could have been".
I'm in my 30s, but I've never bought into the Luiz Ronaldo myth
I wish I was that young, but the thing about Luiz Ronaldo is that his peak really didn't last all that long, most people feel sorry for him because of his injuries (compared to someone like Ronaldinho who just let it go), but the fact of the matter remains that he wasn't that amazing for MOST of his career.
To be fair he's also rated highly based on what he did . Only opposition player I've ever stood up and applauded , feck he was so good
Completely agree...
What he did at Barca and Inter (first season) was indeed incredible, but compared to someone like Cristiano who's done it for a decade, never mind all those records he's broken, he falls very short in terms of longevity.
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What makes Luis Ronaldo stand out more for me is that ( in my opinion ) there were A LOT more players around that time who were world class and could be deemed as competition ... And Ronaldo was noticeably so much better than all of them. Cristiano just has Messi and in reality it's been that way for almost a full decade now. Standing out in that era is mich more of an achievement.
Personally I think it's a case of Messi and Cristiano being so incredible it makes the rest look weak. Do you think the likes of Xavi, Iniesta really compare that poorly to Zidane? or Zlatan to Shevchenko or Henry?
Anyway, I'm not dismissing Luiz Ronaldo as one of many all time greats, but IMO he really isn't near the top 5 to 10 ever like those 2 clearly are.
In addition to that it was an era of great keepers and defenders. Nowadays a certain Sergio Ramos is La Liga's best defender 4 years in a row.
Defenders possibly, but I'm not sure the keepers in the late 90s/early 00s are better than the ones nowadays.
Who?
In the last decade we had, for example, Xavi, who has earned himself a reputation of one of the greatest midfielders of all time, we have Iniesta, who has done more than Zidane and will probably be considered his equal when he will stop playing - the same Zidane who was Ronaldo's main opponent for the title of the best footballer of generation (even if I prefer Ronaldo)
For me, when it comes to achievements, CR stands ahead...but in terms of pure talent (peak), LR comes ahead.
It not that comparable in defence. The 90s had (too many unpicked players)..which is heads above anything CR or Messi faces currently.
As said earlier, I'm not a fan of these comparisons because I don't think Cr7 & the Brazilian Ronaldo have the same style of play and positioning on the pitch.
I look at Ronaldo from a different perspective.
97/98: Ronaldo scored 40 goals with Inter Milan - all competitions - with a dysfunctional team (for many reasons). Zamorano & Djorkaeff were able to score some goals but let's be clear: the only offensive threat was Ronaldo. No collective play.
98/02 - 4 seasons - he scored 24 goals with Inter in 40 games only because of 2 main major injuries.
Despite these major injuries - resulting in a decline of his capacities - he scored 9 goals in 10 games with Brazil and won the WC in 2002.
2002/06: he was still a very high-performing striker with Real: 83 goals + 18 assists in 127 LaLiga games.
Falcao - post injury January 14 - is no longer the world-class striker he used to be WHILE Ronaldo - post 2 similar injuries - was still a world-class striker.
When I look at his performances - post 2 extremely severe injuries - I just think Ronaldo > All.
I look at Ronaldo from a different perspective.
97/98: Ronaldo scored 40 goals with Inter Milan - all competitions - with a dysfunctional team (for many reasons). Zamorano & Djorkaeff were able to score some goals but let's be clear: the only offensive threat was Ronaldo. No collective play.
98/02 - 4 seasons - he scored 24 goals with Inter in 40 games only because of 2 main major injuries.
Despite these major injuries - resulting in a decline of his capacities - he scored 9 goals in 10 games with Brazil and won the WC in 2002.
2002/06: he was still a very high-performing striker with Real: 83 goals + 18 assists in 127 LaLiga games.
Falcao - post injury January 14 - is no longer the world-class striker he used to be WHILE Ronaldo - post 2 similar injuries - was still a world-class striker.
When I look at his performances - post 2 extremely severe injuries - I just think Ronaldo > All.
I'm not debating his talent, but personally I prefer to look at achievements (same goes for the Messi v Cristiano debate). I've no doubt that Luiz Ronaldo (& Messi) are more talented than Cristiano, but in the end, it's what happens on the pitch that counts.
Are those defenders really better than the likes of Rio, Vidic, Puyol, Lahm, Cannavaro, etc?
You can't really compare injuries though, eg Van Nistelrooy was much better AFTER his injury than before.
97/98 Luiz scored 40 goals, Cristiano scored 50+ for over half a decade.
Nowadays De Gea, N***r, Courtois, C******s, C**h, old B****n.
Late 90's/00's - prime B****n, S******s, K**n, T***o, P*****i, P******a, B**a, R*a, C*******t, S****n, I****r, K***e, etc, etc.
A tall slim one is a bit in between.
IMO the general level was higher. I don't think De Gea or N***r has passed primer S******s, K**n and B****n either.
Edited, cause I just realized I've put an entire list of unpicked keepers.
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D* *** and N**** possibly haven't hit their peak yet.
I don't think the likes of L*****, L***, C******* (a few years ago), C*** compare too unfavourably to the likes of T****, P******, P********, B***, R**, C********, S*****, I*****, K****.
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I see @Invictus is online.
As said earlier, I don't compare these players.
Cristiano Ronaldo part of Inter Milan version 97/98 in a Calcio Context would probably score 30 goals, certainly not 40 goals imho
I think lately it has been a bit of shortage of keepers, hence I was pretty happy we convinced De Gea to stay. Sure there are promising keepers around but whether they will fulfill their potential is another matter.
Stats and records obviously count for alot but there are so many variables which account for differences within those stats, so much context that when it comes to judging greats of this calibre and for me Cristiano has more than done enough to deserve to be called a GOAT footballer (he'll be loved more after he retires).. that much it comes down to the feel you had when you watched the player. Trust your own eyes to judge who is the better player.
For me if I was judging it based on who got my off my seat against top top opposition and who looked like he could destroy any type of defence put in front of him, who could produce anything on a football pitch under extreme pressure.. for me that footballer out of the two would have to be R9. He was a phenomenal footballer.
What is crazy is that someone like Suarez is literally 1/5th of the footballer than R9 was and he is the world's best striker and looks like he is unstoppable against most defences. A guy the class of Ronaldo with his strength, speed, agility, flair, movement, touch.. would be banging 60+ figures in La Liga.
When you look at how Martial nearly destroyed every english defence he came up against last year (similar build to R9) and yet Ronaldo is 10 times the player, it makes you wonder how lucky we were to witness this guy at his prime. The original Ronaldo was a complete monster of a striker, literally the most perfect goalscoring machine I have ever seen.. 1 v 1, probably the most difficult striker to ever face and it could be argued most difficult forward to defend 1 v 1 because with most forwards you can push them on to their weaker foot, get tight to negate the space in which they can work, or drop off.. but with him, where do you go.
One weakness or strength he had was his inconsistency in terms of his actions on the pitch. Messi is a god with nearly every action he performs on the pitch, he is like Xavi in that 9 times out of 10 he finds the right solution to the problem unfolding in front of him. Ronaldo on the other hand would lose possession more often, as he was always trying the impossible and very direct on the ball. Where Ronaldo thrives is that Messi is in tight defensive games against well drilled defences, is quite predictable whereas Ronaldo was one of the most unpredictable footballers to ever play the game.
For me it is still Messi > R9 > Ronaldo over their careers and if it was based on one game at their peak to save my life, I'd go R9.
For me if I was judging it based on who got my off my seat against top top opposition and who looked like he could destroy any type of defence put in front of him, who could produce anything on a football pitch under extreme pressure.. for me that footballer out of the two would have to be R9. He was a phenomenal footballer.
What is crazy is that someone like Suarez is literally 1/5th of the footballer than R9 was and he is the world's best striker and looks like he is unstoppable against most defences. A guy the class of Ronaldo with his strength, speed, agility, flair, movement, touch.. would be banging 60+ figures in La Liga.
When you look at how Martial nearly destroyed every english defence he came up against last year (similar build to R9) and yet Ronaldo is 10 times the player, it makes you wonder how lucky we were to witness this guy at his prime. The original Ronaldo was a complete monster of a striker, literally the most perfect goalscoring machine I have ever seen.. 1 v 1, probably the most difficult striker to ever face and it could be argued most difficult forward to defend 1 v 1 because with most forwards you can push them on to their weaker foot, get tight to negate the space in which they can work, or drop off.. but with him, where do you go.
One weakness or strength he had was his inconsistency in terms of his actions on the pitch. Messi is a god with nearly every action he performs on the pitch, he is like Xavi in that 9 times out of 10 he finds the right solution to the problem unfolding in front of him. Ronaldo on the other hand would lose possession more often, as he was always trying the impossible and very direct on the ball. Where Ronaldo thrives is that Messi is in tight defensive games against well drilled defences, is quite predictable whereas Ronaldo was one of the most unpredictable footballers to ever play the game.
For me it is still Messi > R9 > Ronaldo over their careers and if it was based on one game at their peak to save my life, I'd go R9.
Ok... not the time or the thread to debate this.
Modern day keepers are better with their feet, but in terms of pure goalkeeping and being harder to score against.. the 90's ones win easily in terms of sheer presence and dominance of their penalty area.
Come on!!!! I can respect that view that R9 peak > CR7, but career-wise I don't think they're even in the same league.
I meant as the overall player. Like going down in history who is the overall better player (taking into account both peak and longevity etc etc), I'd say R9 was the better player in the eyes of history.
As to who had a better career in terms of achievement, Cristiano obviously wins that one in my opinion.
Well, personally I think Cristiano is in the top 3 ever, so we're obviously not going to agree on that. Anyway, discussion for another time...
I assume it won't get back to me today, so I'm off now...
So far pretty much all my DoFI and legacy picks have been scrutinised. Now Alaba, Ronaldo and even Batistuta have been scrutinised. If anything I've at least caused discussion
Every thread where cal is you see Cristiano compared to someone
PS: whos turn it is, still @Invictus ?
PS: whos turn it is, still @Invictus ?
Mazhar13 - 1. M Le Tissier 2. Gento 3. Sammer 4. Pirri 5. Cristiano 6. Vierchowod
Joga bonito - 1. Carrick 2. Breitner 3. Facchetti 4. Burgnich 5. Kalle Rummenigge 6. Rivelino
Cal? - 1. M Scholl 2. Desailly 3. N Santos 4. Cannavaro 5. Cruyff 6. Neymar
harms - 1. Éder Assis 2. Luis Suárez Miramontes 3. Cafu 4. J. Masopust 5. Messi 6. Chumpitaz
RedTiger/Marty - 1. A di Livio 2. K-H. Schnellinger 3. Lahm 4. F. Hierro 5. van Basten 6. W. Overath
Tuppet - 1. B Schneider 2. Gullit 3. Passarella 4. D. Santos 5. Romario 6. H. Stoichkov
P-Nut - 1. Ince 2. Batistuta 3. Baresi 4. Alaba 5. Ronaldo (fenomeno) 6. Gentile
Chesterlestreet - 1. T. Motta 2. L. Thuram 3. Moore 4. J. Santamaría 5. R. Baggio 6. D. De Gea
DavidG - 1. Petit. 2. Hugo Sanchez 3. Maldini 4. Duncan Edwards 5. Gerd Muller 6. Costacurta
Sjor - 1. Camoranesi 2. Schweinsteiger 3. Krol 4. Ferdinand 5. Di Stefano 6. Courtois
Invictus - 1. O Hargreaves 2. Redondo 3. Nesta 4. Brehme 5. Eusebio 6. Jairzinho
Enigma - 1. Ze Roberto 2. Rivaldo 3. Figueroa 4. Bergomi 5. Pele
Raees - 1. D Baggio 2. Figo 3. Vogts 4. Charles 5. Best
Skizzo/Pat - 1. Solskjaer 2. Van Hanegem 3. Kohler 4. Zanetti 5. Henry
ctp - 1. Ginola 2. Netzer 3. Beckenbauer 4. Carlos Alberto 5. Garrincha
Downcast - 1. Wes Brown 2. Robben 3. Scirea 4. Roberto Carlos 5. Puskas
@Raees
@Skizzo @Pat_Mustard
@ctp
@Downcast
If any of you want to leave your picks with someone, PM me. Will be online for the next 3-4 hours.
@Skizzo @Pat_Mustard
@ctp
@Downcast
If any of you want to leave your picks with someone, PM me. Will be online for the next 3-4 hours.
Mazhar13 - 1. M Le Tissier 2. Gento 3. Sammer 4. Pirri 5. Cristiano 6. Vierchowod
Joga bonito - 1. Carrick 2. Breitner 3. Facchetti 4. Burgnich 5. Kalle Rummenigge 6. Rivelino
Cal? - 1. M Scholl 2. Desailly 3. N Santos 4. Cannavaro 5. Cruyff 6. Neymar
harms - 1. Éder Assis 2. Luis Suárez Miramontes 3. Cafu 4. J. Masopust 5. Messi 6. Chumpitaz
RedTiger/Marty - 1. A di Livio 2. K-H. Schnellinger 3. Lahm 4. F. Hierro 5. van Basten 6. W. Overath
Tuppet - 1. B Schneider 2. Gullit 3. Passarella 4. D. Santos 5. Romario 6. H. Stoichkov
P-Nut - 1. Ince 2. Batistuta 3. Baresi 4. Alaba 5. Ronaldo (fenomeno) 6. Gentile
Chesterlestreet - 1. T. Motta 2. L. Thuram 3. Moore 4. J. Santamaría 5. R. Baggio 6. D. De Gea
DavidG - 1. Petit. 2. Hugo Sanchez 3. Maldini 4. Duncan Edwards 5. Gerd Muller 6. Costacurta
Sjor - 1. Camoranesi 2. Schweinsteiger 3. Krol 4. Ferdinand 5. Di Stefano 6. Courtois
Invictus - 1. O Hargreaves 2. Redondo 3. Nesta 4. Brehme 5. Eusebio 6. Jairzinho
Enigma - 1. Ze Roberto 2. Rivaldo 3. Figueroa 4. Bergomi 5. Pele 6. Davids
Raees - 1. D Baggio 2. Figo 3. Vogts 4. Charles 5. Best
Skizzo/Pat - 1. Solskjaer 2. Van Hanegem 3. Kohler 4. Zanetti 5. Henry
ctp - 1. Ginola 2. Netzer 3. Beckenbauer 4. Carlos Alberto 5. Garrincha
Downcast - 1. Wes Brown 2. Robben 3. Scirea 4. Roberto Carlos 5. Puskas
@Raees