Trump is an insanely corrupt piece of shit that makes a lot of Eastern European strongmen look like they have shame. There is no legitimate comparison here, he is much worse, but it still a needless abuse of power from Biden.
The Biden Presidency
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It’s a preemptive strike of nepotism and corruption, necessary to prevent nepotism and corruption. It’s ok, because the guy doing it, is the good guy, as he usually wouldn’t do that, even though he just did.Ah right so when you think about it it's actually Trumps fault that Biden is abusing his position to pardon Hunter
Gaffs is about 1 hour of posturing away from declaring the Dems would be right to declare a coup.
Can you not see the contradiction there?
If Trump is "an insanely corrupt piece of shit" as you say, would you say it was a needless abuse of power to ensure that you son is not left in the hands of said "insanely corrupt piece of shit" and his FBI and DOJ?
Ah right so when you think about it it's actually Trumps fault that Biden is abusing his position to pardon Hunter
Again, very funny. But there has not been one person that is able to answer the question that Biden must have had to consider over the past few weeks.
Would Hunter Biden have been treated fairly under a Trump DOJ and FBI?
No one is answering you because it's a completely pointless question. If you think it does fine but no one else does, do you also extend this logic to everyone or just the president?
If anyone suspects they may not be treated fairly do they get to ignore the law?
Why would it be a pointless question?
Wouldn't it have been the very question that Biden would have been asking himself?
You and others are choosing not to answer it because you know this is the crux of the argument. Trump can't be trusted to treat Hunter Biden fairly. He will get used as a political ragdoll because it is advantageous to Trump and the GOP.
No one can say in good faith they they think that Trump and his lackeys will allow justice to be served fairly, when it comes to Hunter Biden.
There is no need to extend that logic to anyone else because the founders only gave the power of the pardon to the sitting President.
What's the suggestion there? Would he be tortured/killed/put in solitary confinement for the remainder of Trump's term? I don't think anyone is suggesting that seriously. We're still talking about a millionaire son of a former president with access to best lawyers presumably and the "unfair" treatment is still lenient in most cases. The witch hunt that I would kind of expect is a very malicious media circus, but as far as I understand the pardon does almost nothing for that.
It's a meaningful distinction in relation to the question @surf asked. "why would a democracy build in that legal power for a person to unilaterally override a court decision?"
The answer there is that the Framers did not want a full blown democracy so they built in distinctly undemocratic mechanisms their vision of a perfect government was a republic that was not a full democracy rather than a democracy being their idea of a perfect government. Also why we have things like the Senate. Electoral college, filibuster, etc all of which are undemocratic mechanisms in the republic.
The pardon had nothing to do with anything found on the "laptop". It was about a gun charge.
The contrast couldn’t be starker. Charles Kushner, a real estate developer and Jared Kushner’s father, faced the consequences of his crimes. In 2005, he pleaded guilty to 18 counts, including tax evasion, illegal campaign contributions, and witness tampering. He served 14 months in federal prison, followed by time in a halfway house. Justice was served, and it’s a chapter closed nearly two decades ago.
Meanwhile, Hunter Biden receives a sweeping pardon covering 11 years of questionable behavior, despite President Biden's repeated claims that no one is above the law. Biden explicitly vowed not to pardon his son, yet here we are. The hypocrisy is glaring. If you’re going to claim the moral high ground, don’t turn around and undermine it when it’s politically or personally convenient. It’s corruption dressed up as principle—and just as hollow as anything Trump has ever done. Please spare us the sanctimony ol' Joe.
Biden, Trump, Pelosi, McConnell, Schumer, Graham, Johnson, Jeffries —the whole lot of them—are neck-deep in the same swamp. Different names, same rot.
Err, no. The pardon was sweeping covering offenses that Hunter Biden "has committed or may have committed or taken part in over the past 11 years".
Executive Grant of Clemency
Joseph R. Biden, Jr.
President of the United States of America
To All to Whom These Presents Shall Come, Greeting:
Be It Known, That This Day, I, Joseph R. Biden, Jr., President of the United States, Pursuant to My Powers Under Article II, Section 2, Clause 1, of the Constitution, Have Granted Unto
ROBERT HUNTER BIDEN
A Full and Unconditional Pardon
For those offenses against the United States which he has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 1, 2014 through December 1, 2024, including but not limited to all offenses charged or prosecuted (including any that have resulted in convictions) by Special Counsel David C. Weiss in Docket No. 1:23-cr-00061-MN in the United States District Court for the District of Delaware and Docket No. 2:23-CR-00599-MCS-1 in the United States District Court for the Central District of California.
Joseph R. Biden, Jr.
President of the United States of America
To All to Whom These Presents Shall Come, Greeting:
Be It Known, That This Day, I, Joseph R. Biden, Jr., President of the United States, Pursuant to My Powers Under Article II, Section 2, Clause 1, of the Constitution, Have Granted Unto
ROBERT HUNTER BIDEN
A Full and Unconditional Pardon
For those offenses against the United States which he has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from January 1, 2014 through December 1, 2024, including but not limited to all offenses charged or prosecuted (including any that have resulted in convictions) by Special Counsel David C. Weiss in Docket No. 1:23-cr-00061-MN in the United States District Court for the District of Delaware and Docket No. 2:23-CR-00599-MCS-1 in the United States District Court for the Central District of California.
What does THIS get them? One crackhead avoids consequences for his actions. No political or policy goals of the party are being advanced.
You could credibly make the "low road" argument if it was for something like commuting all death sentences to life in prison. But Biden doesn't care about that. He's just an evil corrupt politician who loves when other people have draconian punishments but shields himself and his family members from the consequences of his actions.
I guess there could be an element of "blame the system not the person abusing it" in play for people who argue Trump does x,y,z and nobody cares and so why shouldn't Biden do the same thing.
Any system where one person can pardon convicted criminals, including family members is fecked up. It debases everything and drags the morality level right down into a murky cesspit. Which is where US politics is right now.
Surely US must look to change that power the president has, its utterly insane in this day and age and so open for abuse by weak (Biden) and corrupt (Trump) people.
Any system where one person can pardon convicted criminals, including family members is fecked up. It debases everything and drags the morality level right down into a murky cesspit. Which is where US politics is right now.
Surely US must look to change that power the president has, its utterly insane in this day and age and so open for abuse by weak (Biden) and corrupt (Trump) people.
Can you link me the charges Hunter Biden is facing or faced about anything related to the "laptop"?
Because no one here is debating whether a father should protect his son or his mindset, they're debating Biden in his capacity as an elected official. What is being discussed is if a president should be abusing pardon powers for his own personal purposes and there's no context needed to answer that question.
The fact you keep bringing it back to it being his son shows you really don't get people's objection.
Your last line amounts to saying he's got the power so he may as well abuse it.
I would expect a Trump DOJ and FBI to throw a bunch of BS charges at Hunter Biden, thus the reason for the 10 year window of the pardon, rather than making it specifically for the tax and gun charge.
If doesn't matter if you are a millionaire. Those "best lawyers" will drain your account if you are having to fight the US DOJ.
Thank god poor Fredo Bidelone is being protected from having to drain his bank account to fight legal charges.
I would say that the specific period that Hunter has been pardoned for covers the year he started work for Burisma. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.
Biden’s pardon covers his son’s offenses or alleged offenses dating back to January 1 2014, meaning Hunter is also protected from any other crimes he has not yet been charged with during that period.
It’s a timeline that covers Hunter’s time as a board member of Ukrainian energy company Burisma – a role that Republicans have honed in on, claiming without evidence that his foreign business dealings were corrupt.
Hunter joined the board of Ukrainian energy company Burisma in April 2014, initially making more than $1 million per year.
Hunter Biden has no right to be treated fairly. He’s consistently done terrible things. It was righteous he was convicted
There are plenty of other criminals that were never sentenced that Trump pardoned.. Joe Arpaio, Michael Flynn, Casey Urlacher, Tommaso Buti, Ken Kurson, Steve Bannon. All friends and acquaintances of Trump and his family.
He pardoned Steve Bannon who was facing charges of misappropriating money from the "Build The Wall" charity. Money that was being raised from Trump supporters to build the Border Wall. I mean, as if charity money would find its way to building the wall!
Trump is happy to pardon a guy who ripped off Trump's own supporters. That tells you exactly what what he thinks of his supporters!
Did you donate to Build The Wall?
Yes he does. He was fairly convicted and should have been sentenced. I agree with that. And there is the potential that he wouldn't have even served time.
What i don't agree with is what Trump and his lackeys would have cooked up next.
Remember, we are talking about Trump. A man that said Liz Cheney should be put in front of a military tribunal for sitting on the January 6th committee. We are not talking about a sane actor here.
Yes, but that is exactly what you get when you vote him in.
The whole apparatus is ripe for abuse and if there was ever one man who could do that and even more then he’s just been elected as president
I agree. It is what people will get. Even though most just want cheaper eggs, bacon and gas.
And it is Trumps abuse of the system which makes the feel Biden was right for Biden to pardon his son, even though it does stink.
Presidential Pardons stink as a concept. Blame Alexander Hamilton for that.
So, right now there are no charges relating to anything allegedly found on the "laptop", correct?
By the way, I don't support this pardon personally. I'm just very skeptical of claims like Suedesi is making that this is all about this "laptop" rather than the actual charges Hunter is facing related to guns and taxes.
Don't be obtuse. The pardon was not a narrowly written, precisely drawn farewell note of compassion for a loved one - it was a sweeping pardon, erasing any potential wrongdoing Hunter may have committed over the past 11 years starting with Hunter's involvement in Burisma.
No charges that I have read.
Just seems a bit weird to me that the pardon is date specific and ties in with the Burisma/Ukraine stuff. Biden could be expecting charges for Hunter so is covering that along with the guns and tax charges.
Who knows, both parties are corrupt as feck
There are plenty of other criminals that were never sentenced that Trump pardoned.. Joe Arpaio, Michael Flynn, Casey Urlacher, Tommaso Buti, Ken Kurson, Steve Bannon. All friends and acquaintances of Trump and his family.
He pardoned Steve Bannon who was facing charges of misappropriating money from the "Build The Wall" charity. Money that was being raised from Trump supporters to build the Border Wall. I mean, as if charity money would find its way to building the wall!
Trump is happy to pardon a guy who ripped off Trump's own supporters. That tells you exactly what what he thinks of his supporters!
Did you donate to Build The Wall?
No, did you donate to Kamala's campaign?
Give me three examples of anyone Trump has gone after extensively in the courts after criticizing.
He doesn’t do it. He’s literally criticized and made statement of dozens of public figures
So no charges related to anything found on the "laptop", correct?
Do you have proof that there is evidence related to criminal activity on the data Giuliani claims was found on this random laptop?
You watch the Daily Show?
He didn't get to do it because there were guardrails to prevent him. Institutionalists who respected the laws and norms. The picks he is making seem to show he wants those people that would tell him no out of the way. From his perspective, he wont make those same mistakes this time - he wont have council like Don McGahn, Generals like Mark Milley or a Chief of Staff like John Kelly to temper his worst impulses. Trump thinks Biden "went after him" for absolutely nothing - despite us all seeing Trumps crimes. So, he thinks his enemies are now fair game.
We know he wanted to prosecute Clinton and Comey https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/20/us/politics/president-trump-justice-department.html
He said he wanted a Special Prosecutor to go after Biden https://thehill.com/homenews/campai...after-biden-if-former-president-wins-in-2024/
He wants to see Liz Cheney face a military tribuneral https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/politics/trump-liz-cheney-military-tribunal/index.html
Nominating Kash Patel and Matt Gaetz (even though Gaetz stepped back) tells us he wants people who will obey his every word in key positions.
H
His brand is he talks a aggressive big game, but he’s a softy
He was the president of the United States.. he coulda gone after Clinton. The proof is in the pudding. He didn’t go after anyone.
His brand is he talks a aggressive big game, but he’s a softy
Its actually fascinating to watch from a sidelines, the twists, the spins, mental gymnastics etc. That cnut winning election made AOE mask drop.
I feel like you need to put a reference to Jon Stewart at the end of that.
The proof is not in the pudding because Trump in a second term will no longer show any constraint.
It says clearly in the articles, he had advisors that told him that that he shouldn't do it because of the consequences. Since then, the landscape had changes thanks to two SCOTUS rulings, two impeachments, a failed coup and 100+ charges have shown him there are no consequences for his actions. And as i said, he thinks Biden and the Dems went after him, so he thinks it will be fair game.
Lets see what happens over the next few years.
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