The Biden Presidency

africanspur said:
No they didn’t. This roundabout circle is pointless.

Multiple people claimed on here, well before the election, when there was no talk of Biden stepping down, that his policy on Gaza was informed mostly by electoral concerns.

Then he stepped down and the dems lost. And his policies are exactly the same. This is not even about Harris.

It’s all irrelevant anyway now but Bidens legacy is going to be straight trash and this pardon is just the cherry on top.
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All US politics is limited on their position on Israel.

What was claimed recently was that a lame duck President hasn't made changes so people were right to vote for Trump QED.

The suggestion was that Harris was more moderate on the issue and infinitely more moderate than Trump. Which seems an uncontroversial thing to suggest.

To in effect say voting for Trump on the basis that Biden hasn't changed anything after Harris lost is just nonsense.
 
maniak said:
They said it when he was up for election. It became obvious once he wasn't that his policy on gaza was out of principle and not of electoral necessity. That's why it became sort of a joke. Biden believes and supports the genocide and I'm yet to see any of those making up excuses for him on the caf admit so.
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But he wasn't up for election and even if he was the Dems lost. So trying to infer anything based on his brief period as a lame duck President, when victory would have put Harris in charge who seems more moderate, is silly. Either way Trump will be worse. Obviously.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
So no charges related to anything found on the "laptop", correct?

Do you have proof that there is evidence related to criminal activity on the data Giuliani claims was found on this random laptop?
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The absence of charges doesn’t necessarily mean the absence of evidence—it could reflect prosecutorial discretion or political considerations. After all, it’s Biden’s DOJ handling Hunter Biden’s case, raising questions about impartiality and fairness. To top it off, Biden’s sweeping pardon only deepens those concerns.

I love that you've put the laptop in quotation marks as if that's still a. contentious issue...

https://www.thetimes.com/world/us-world/article/burisma-board-hunter-biden-pardon-ukraine-ndlz8p53t
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hunter-biden-laptop-data-analysis/
 
Wibble said:
But he wasn't up for election and even if he was the Dems lost. So trying to infer anything based on his brief period as a lame duck President, when victory would have put Harris in charge who seems more moderate, is silly. Either way Trump will be worse. Obviously.
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You have no solid basis, from her actions or even her words, to suggest Kamala might be better than Biden or Trump on Gaza. But everything about that is speculation, so let's ignore it.

Your statement about biden's lame duck term though is amazing. Why shouldn't we infer? During this lame duck term, he has

1. Loosened US restrictions on Ukraine's weapons use, a change from his own policy and possibly something that will make it harder for trump to do what he wants.

2. Vetoed a UNSC resolution on Gaza after it had been diluted twice under US pressure.

3. Rejected the ICC War Crimes ruling on Bibi

We also know that during Obama's lame duck session, he abstained at the UN SC, allowing a resolution against Israel to go through.

So we have evidence of Biden himself doing foreign policy change during this session, we have evidence of Obama doing foreign policy change successfully wrt Israel during his equivalent session, and what we see from Biden on Israel is ... continuity, going out of his way to block two avenues that could end the fighting.

Maybe just maybe, he supports the slaughter. And I can infer further support from this theory from his actions during this season.

I understand the impulse to bury one's head in the sand wrt genocide support, but I don't understand why that can't be limited to unfalsifiable statements like "kamala's vibes on this are better" or "trump is obviously worse", without outright ignoring reality like defending his current stance.
 
I feel like he's done us all a favour really, albeit unintentionally..

the USA and the world needs a strong democratic party so we can hopefully avoid having shit-heads like Trump making decisions

his parting shot was hopefully another nail in the coffin of the current power base because they badly need to change something

also... he's clearly lost his marbles at this point, and as someone who never liked the guy even I wonder if he'd have done this if that wasn't the case
 
Eboue said:
What does THIS get them? One crackhead avoids consequences for his actions. No political or policy goals of the party are being advanced.

You could credibly make the "low road" argument if it was for something like commuting all death sentences to life in prison. But Biden doesn't care about that. He's just an evil corrupt politician who loves when other people have draconian punishments but shields himself and his family members from the consequences of his actions.
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Exactly!

I personally don't care about Hunter getting a Pardon, I don't even really care that a president is abusing a process, that is ripe for abuse, to serve him and his family. I care that this malicious, evil fecking cnut is using his presidential power for his own benefit and isn't also seeking to do the same thing more widely for socially minded causes on moral and compassion grounds.

Biden is wretched, as are those defending him.
 
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berbatrick said:
You have no solid basis, from her actions or even her words, to suggest Kamala might be better than Biden or Trump on Gaza. But everything about that is speculation, so let's ignore it.
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Who said ignore it. But you can't lurch from Biden not changing much to thinking that proves that Harris wouldn't have, albeit not in a way that you would personally like i.e. a total withdrawl of israeli forces etc etc. Of course I can't say with absolute certainty that Harris would have taken a softer line but it did seem likely. Kind of irrelevant when the alternative is Trump who loves him a hardman leader like Netenyahu and plainly hates foreigners/dark skinned people/non-Christians. This is the man who moved the US Embassy to Jerusalem FFS. Strawman arguments/non-sequiturs don't help.
berbatrick said:
Your statement about biden's lame duck term though is amazing. Why shouldn't we infer? During this lame duck term, he has

1. Loosened US restrictions on Ukraine's weapons use, a change from his own policy and possibly something that will make it harder for trump to do what he wants.

2. Vetoed a UNSC resolution on Gaza after it had been diluted twice under US pressure.

3. Rejected the ICC War Crimes ruling on Bibi

We also know that during Obama's lame duck session, he abstained at the UN SC, allowing a resolution against Israel to go through.
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Because Biden doesn't want to and doesn't have an party pressure to do so. Obviously. But the choice was between Harris and Trump. So it proves zero.
berbatrick said:
I understand the impulse to bury one's head in the sand wrt genocide support, but I don't understand why that can't be limited to unfalsifiable statements like "kamala's vibes on this are better" or "trump is obviously worse", without outright ignoring reality like defending his current stance.
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What are you talking about? Israel and Netanyahu have behaved like a bunch of cnuts, few are disputing that. But making a straw man argument about what Biden hasn't done after Harris lost is meaningless and distracting. Trump is going to be the president and he will be far worse for Palestinians than Harris would have been, likely than Biden is. How can he not be? He makes everything far worse and has form for siding heavily with Israel.
 
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Carolina Red said:
Well, you didn’t actually “quote” it or cite it. The teacher side of me would have to ding you for plagiarism :angel:
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I quoted/embedded the Daily Show segment in one of my above posts. Since I’m not writing an academic paper here, I’m skipping the footnotes and citations, Teacher. Feel free to grade me accordingly!
 
Wibble said:
So trying to infer anything based on his brief period as a lame duck President, when victory would have put Harris in charge who seems more moderate, is silly. Either way Trump will be worse. Obviously.
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That's ok. We have plenty of other reasons to infer that he is a revolting, racist psychopath.
 
If I was in Biden's position and I knew a person like Trump was getting in power and he will appoint vindictive nut-jobs in charge of FBI and the justice department, I would have pardoned my son too. The alternative is to trust the American justice system, we all know how that played out with the cases against Trump. Most parents here would have done the same. It is the wrong thing to do but I sure would have done it.

PS Biden is a horrible human being, and was a terrible president.
 
Dr. StrangeHate said:
If I was in Biden's position and I knew a person like Trump was getting in power and he will appoint vindictive nut-jobs in charge of FBI and the justice department, I would have pardoned my son too. The alternative is to trust the American justice system, we all know how that played out with the cases against Trump. Most parents here would have done the same. It is the wrong thing to do but I sure would have done it.

PS Biden is a horrible human being, and was a terrible president.
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I'd have less issue with it if he hadn't come out and said he wouldn't previously.
 
Wibble said:
I'd have less issue with it if he hadn't come out and said he wouldn't previously.
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Circumstances change. I don't think he expected Trump to be still in play after all the cases against him and how radical his appointments will be. You are allowed to change your mind in light of new information.
 
Wibble said:
The suggestion was that Harris was more moderate on the issue and infinitely more moderate than Trump. Which seems an uncontroversial thing to suggest.
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Wibble said:
Of course I can't say with absolute certainty that Harris would have taken a softer line but it did seem likely. Kind of irrelevant when the alternative is Trump who loves him a hardman leader like Netenyahu and plainly hates foreigners/dark skinned people/non-Christians.
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Please spare us this weak equivocating.

The actions and rhetoric from Biden over the last year, and the actions and rhetoric from Kamala Harris over the last year have directly resulted in some of the most brutally inflicted suffering, death and carnage ever witnessed.

Your protestations of hypotheticals and least terribles are a diminishment of these horrors and excuses those who have inflicted these horrors.
 
Wibble said:
All US politics is limited on their position on Israel.

What was claimed recently was that a lame duck President hasn't made changes so people were right to vote for Trump QED.

The suggestion was that Harris was more moderate on the issue and infinitely more moderate than Trump. Which seems an uncontroversial thing to suggest.

To in effect say voting for Trump on the basis that Biden hasn't changed anything after Harris lost is just nonsense.
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Again, nobody is saying this.

With respect, having this particular conversation with you is utterly pointless because you seem unwilling to engage with what is actually being written (that some posters said that Bidens actions , when he was still the presumptive nominee, were informed by American electoral concerns) and not how he actually wanted to act. This has nothing to do with Trump.

We saw this perfectly when they created a half hearted threat to try to force the Israelis into providing more aid and then did nothing when it became obvious they were still starving Gaza, even though at that point he and the Dems had already lost.

Biden is a full throated supporter of what is going on. That is that.

Your only response to this particular point is , though it has nothing to do with Trump, to consistently bring up Trump.

As I said. It’s pointless. At least Raoul and others stopped saying it after a while when it became obvious that Biden couldn’t care less.
 
Out of interest, for those still defending Biden with this pardon. What would Biden/ a dem have to do for the response to not automatically be ‘what about the orange buffoon?’
 
africanspur said:
Out of interest, for those still defending Biden with this pardon. What would Biden/ a dem have to do for the response to not automatically be ‘what about the orange buffoon?’
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He’d have to do something considered leftist politics. That gets everyone riled up and angry.
 
africanspur said:
Out of interest, for those still defending Biden with this pardon. What would Biden/ a dem have to do for the response to not automatically be ‘what about the orange buffoon?’
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The problem with a question like this is that the true answer will change depending on whether or not it has happened already. A huge portion of those defending the pardon would have disapproved if asked a week ago, but now that Biden has actually done it it's fine.

It's a bit like Biden and his red lines. They're not real.
 
africanspur said:
Again, nobody is saying this.
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Except they are saying exactly this. Which is pointless and long since irrelevant.
africanspur said:
With respect, having this particular conversation with you is utterly pointless because you seem unwilling to engage with what is actually being written (that some posters said that Bidens actions , when he was still the presumptive nominee, were informed by American electoral concerns) and not how he actually wanted to act.
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This was a limong time ago yet keeps getting recycled as if he were the alternative to Trump. He wasn't.
africanspur said:
This has nothing to do with Trump.
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Really? Surely voting for an Islamaphobe like Trump vs Harris who may at least be less pro-Israel than Biden, and obviously far better on the issue than Trump, is highly relevant?
africanspur said:
We saw this perfectly when they created a half hearted threat to try to force the Israelis into providing more aid and then did nothing when it became obvious they were still starving Gaza, even though at that point he and the Dems had already lost.

Biden is a full throated supporter of what is going on. That is that.
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And? We know that Palastinians have been treated dreadfully and the hideous Hamas attack can't justify inflicting death and destruction so indiscriminately on civilians. Biden was piss weak with Israel, Trump will be far worse.
africanspur said:
Your only response to this particular point is , though it has nothing to do with Trump, to consistently bring up Trump.

As I said. It’s pointless. At least Raoul and others stopped saying it after a while when it became obvious that Biden couldn’t care less.
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It isn't irrelevant in that it is in the context of the irrelevant Biden stuff that keeps getting brought up.

The only hope is that other countries, somewhat surprisingly including Australia, increasingly split with the US. In a weird way Trump getting getting elected may help this as many governments hate the prick.
 
Wibble said:
This was a limong time ago yet keeps getting recycled as if he were the alternative to Trump. He wasn't.
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See, this is the problem here. It’s like we’re having two separate conversations. It’s why it’s pointless to carry on.

People can have a conversation about how awful Biden is on this particular issue without their subsequent conclusion being that Trump would be better. Or that people would vote for Trump. In the same way that I can talk about how awful someone chopping off 3 of my limbs is, without someone coming along and telling me it would be even worse if someone chopped off 4.

Despite explaining it to you, all you can do is mention Trump, voting for Trump, Harris (who wasn’t part of the picture when this conversation first started with people like Raoul) etc etc.

The ‘and’ response is particularly ridiculous. It is very literally the crux of the conversation.

-Biden is doing what he’s doing because he’s a full throated supporter of Israel and likely thinks Palestinians to some extent deserve what’s happening.
-No he’s not. He’s acting in this way because of the upcoming elections.
-Pulls out of the elections and the dems lose. During this process, he threatens some military aid withdrawn. Despite not fulfilling the criteria, nothing happens to Israel, despite Biden at this point giving zero fecks about electoral politics.

All of the above happened and has occurred across multiple threads on here. Those are just statements of fact. That does not mean Trump is better. Yet that is the only response you can repeatedly give, even when we’re not talking about Harris at all.
 
NotThatSoph said:
The problem with a question like this is that the true answer will change depending on whether or not it has happened already. A huge portion of those defending the pardon would have disapproved if asked a week ago, but now that Biden has actually done it it's fine.

It's a bit like Biden and his red lines. They're not real.
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Well this is what I’m wondering. I genuinely believe at this point that if someone came along and accused Biden of sexual assault….the response from some would be ok fine, that’s pretty rubbish. But the other guy has been accused of multiple sexual assaults.
 
africanspur said:
Well this is what I’m wondering. I genuinely believe at this point that if someone came along and accused Biden of sexual assault….the response from some would be ok fine, that’s pretty rubbish. But the other guy has been accused of multiple sexual assaults.
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Fits with this thread. A strawman argument.
 
Wibble said:
Fits with this thread. A strawman argument.
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Straw man argument….. about what? I’m not even arguing with anyone.

People have very literally used Trump pardoning Kushner as justification for this by the way. In this thread no less.
 
Wibble said:
Which makes zero difference to Palestinian's suffering since he won't be President soon.
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He is the president right now and Palestinians are dying right now. I think that places the number above zero.
Wibble said:
This was a limong time ago yet keeps getting recycled as if he were the alternative to Trump. He wasn't.
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This is the Biden Presidency thread not the Elections 2024 thread. It's about Joe Biden's presidency.
 
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Iker Quesadillas said:
Biden also explicitly said he would keep the embassy in Jesuralem.
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And he never reversed Trump's decision to officially recognize Israel's annexation of the Syrian Golan Heights which is completely illegal according international laws.

That's something far worse which paradoxically completely went under the radar. And I bet my house that no future US president will do it, no matter their allegiance.

The US is currently the only country on the planet that did so. It makes its position on the international scene even more hypocritical, and frankly despicable.

The debate about Biden having his hands tied for electoral reasons died almost a year ago. The debate about which party would be worse for Palestine is equally moot and could only be argued in bad faith.

I stopped paying attention to the "Trump is worse" argument a long time ago. Both parties are absolutely horrible on the topic. They have the same exact objective and that is not a two state solution.

The only difference is that the GOP will speed up the process, and in a more obvious manner, than its Democratic counter-part. That's it.
 
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I dont know what's worst. To actually hate the palestine and support the genocide, or simply supporting the genocide just for 4 more years of being president, or probably just AIPAC funding

The US will always have Israel back, no doubt about that. But in this case is it too much to ask for a "stop it they're already bleeding to death, enough"

We're not even talking about Israel wellbeing and safety, just bloodlust and greed
 
Eboue said:
You keep bringing this up like it is a trump card. It's not! Hillary's 2008 platform called for the embassy to be moved to Jerusalem.
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Trump card? Hilarious.

Trump hates Muslims and indeed almost any foreigner or person less white/orange than him. Obviously.
 
There is no way Biden answered pardon question with "welcome to America", that would be way to funny.
 
How about a symbolic conference for peaceful settlement of the Palestine question, Joe? Still no.

 
Wibble said:
Trump card? Hilarious.

Trump hates Muslims and indeed almost any foreigner or person less white/orange than him. Obviously.
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There hasn't been a US president who ideologically hates Palestinians more than Biden and there are no words left for anyone who still can't see that.
 
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