Presidential pardons are some medieval monarchy level shit. Seperation of powers anyone?
The Biden Presidency
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Well OK, but then the next question is why would a democracy build in that legal power for a person to unilaterally override a court decision? It seems distinctly undemocratic. If there is a proven miscarriage of justice the courts have the power to set aside the conviction.
This is not like pardoning turkeys (who haven't been convicted of any crime).
Yes, I get that, but why
?To rephrase my original question: What was the original logic behind giving Presidents the power to pardon?
The US isn't a democracy, it's a Republic. Powers are not meant to be fully democratic.
The US is definitely a democracy. Every modern state is basically either a monarchy or a republic, and I'm pretty sure all the democracies aren't monarchies.
Nostalgia sells, 70's/80's/90's never said what actual century mind you
Hilarious
Yes, I get that, but why
To rephrase my original question: What was the original logic behind giving Presidents the power to pardon?
The power to pardon is enshrined in the US constitution to allow presidents to correct mistakes in the judicial system, show clemency and promote fairness. It's essentially a tool fix wrongful conviction, reduce/commute harsh punishments and encourage healing after national conflicts (i.e. the Civil War). The original idea basically came from the English kings ("royal prerogative of mercy"), but the Consitituons framers gave it to the POTUS to balance justice with compassion and trusting that the public opinion would keep abuses in check.
That's it in a nutshell
What was said about it in the past, when shoe was on other foot, that thread is in this direction ---> or something
Joe Biden is not a good and decent man. Biden is a con artist who spent his entire life in public service playing quid pro quo for money and status.
Biden’s Presidency started with him denying the existence of Hunter’s laptop and is ending with Biden pardoning Hunter for all the things found on his laptop. What an apt bookend to this pathetic man.
He's a person who has been the victim of a relentless political hit campaign for like 5 years. It was the laptop nonsense for most of that time until their key witness admitted in court it was basically all bullshit. They tried everything until they were lucky enough to find something that stuck. They then wouldn't even let him plead guilty, so they could drag it on for the show of it, then sentenced him over and above the norm for what he was convicted of.
Corruption all the way through. The people who have been doing this are about to seize total control of the US and have been openly stating they are going to go after all their opponents. Its likely they won't leave Hunter alone, their focus on him has been a winning strategy (somehow) so they'll continue with it.
It seems like a proper use of presidential pardon powers tbh and the fact that he's his son probably shouldn't effect the decision. Remains to be seen whether it'll even matter however, when they control the courts...
Corruption all the way through. The people who have been doing this are about to seize total control of the US and have been openly stating they are going to go after all their opponents. Its likely they won't leave Hunter alone, their focus on him has been a winning strategy (somehow) so they'll continue with it.
It seems like a proper use of presidential pardon powers tbh and the fact that he's his son probably shouldn't effect the decision. Remains to be seen whether it'll even matter however, when they control the courts...
No, you are not.
** does not pertain to the immediate Biden family
If your only argument is "the other guy did it first" then you basically are without arguments. The whole selling point of the Democrats was some sort of integrity and normalcy and respect for the rule of law. This action shat on top of it all.
You are just witnessing people's flimsy moral compass completely implode, and by extension the slow disintegration of a society, its values and its way of life.
It's absolutely fascinating and worthy of popcorn if not the dramatic consequences in the next years.
Historians will have a field day with what happened in 2016-2024 and its future implications.
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Biden in a corrupt douche bag shocker, Asif he hasn't done this his entire career, least this time he's not discriminating the black community again.
Exactly this. We've been on a drastic downward spiral for the past 8 years, when it comes to morals, ethics, decorum and anything else that makes for what most religions or simply common sense would dictate makes for a good person. Kids growing up now will see it as normal.
It's a beautiful thing to see America finally united, as Dems and MAGA spout identical talking points.
Why are so many of you parroting this when nobody suggested any such thing?
People suggested that Harris would be better than Biden on this issue, and lots better than Trump, but nobody suggested that Biden would do a 180 as soon as the election was over. If you ever expect any US President to fully take the Palestinian side, especially while Hamas and Hezbollah still exist (and not even then most likely), then you are dreaming. The real comparison for US citizens on this issue was who would be least terrible for Palestinians, Harris or Trump? Anyone who thought Trump plainly hasn't been watching or remember his last term - remember him moving the Embassy to Jerusalem?
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Biden pardoned his son, because his prosecution was "for political reasons".
Amazing pass to Trump. He can now pardon himself, because his prosecution was "for political reasons".
Amazing pass to Trump. He can now pardon himself, because his prosecution was "for political reasons".
The real issue is that he promised that he wouldn't and now has. The justification that he is being prosecuted and perused in a way almost anyone else wouldn't because he is Biden's son is likely true (more in the being prosecuted to the full extent of the law - not that he is innocent) in that just about nobody is prosecuted for such a false statement on a gun form when no adverse outcome resulted and the tax authority usually give a slap on the writ to someone who made similar tax misdeclaration as long as they pay any fines and interest etc. Plus who knows what that lunatic Trump will do when he is president again.
** does not pertain to the immediate Biden family
If your only argument is "the other guy did it first" then you basically are without arguments. The whole selling point of the Democrats was some sort of integrity and normalcy and respect for the rule of law. This action shat on top of it all.
So I can see what he did it but he really shouldn't have said he wouldn't if that wasn't set in stone.
Not at State level he can't, and nothing Biden has or hasn't done will stop Trump doing anything he can to benefit himself. This makes no difference.
Do you really believe that if Hunter had actually killed someone, Biden would not pardon him at this point?
I honestly thought he would keep his word on not pardoning Hunter, to show that law still rule even for people in power, but here we are. Puts him in an even more bad light than he already is. Not that it means a lot in the grand scheme, but its just something to add to the dumpster fire that is American politics and how it shapes the rest of the world.
Theoretically, yes.
In practice, nothing will happen. In NY, Trump was scheduled to be sentenced on Nov. 26. It was postponed indefinitely. And I bet that all charges will be dropped at some point.
Of course I do. What a silly thing to suggest.
Depends of promise/statements before that.
And no matter what Trump will do whatever he can to benefit himself. Hunter Biden's pardon makes zero difference to this.
At this point, Biden has nothing to lose. Pelosi and many other Dems have blamed him for losing these elections. And they are right.
Biden is gone anyway, I am not even sure if he is the one who makes these decisions or someone else, for example his wife. I have met old people like that, and it usually their wives that decide for everything.
I disagree. For many people it makes a huge difference. Of course not for the Trump cultists, or the "Trump is Hitler" cultists. For these two groups nothing makes a difference! But both these extremist groups are actually small percentages of the total population.
But for the average blue collar people, if Biden says there are "politically motivated prosecutions", and Trump says the same thing ... then it is perhaps true.
Some people still remember that Bill Clinton lied under oath, and that the Dems refused to prosecute him.
Now Biden gave his son a blanket pardon. Not just for the crimes he has been already investigated for, but for any crimes whatsoever!!! This is really bad, some people will remember this for a long time.
For some voters, this will mean "they are all the same". This is not true of course. But it does help Trump and his gang.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/02/hunter-biden-pardon-nixon-00192101
We haven’t seen a pardon as sweeping as Hunter Biden’s in generations
Now Biden gave his son a blanket pardon. Not just for the crimes he has been already investigated for, but for any crimes whatsoever!!! This is really bad, some people will remember this for a long time.
For some voters, this will mean "they are all the same". This is not true of course. But it does help Trump and his gang.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/12/02/hunter-biden-pardon-nixon-00192101
We haven’t seen a pardon as sweeping as Hunter Biden’s in generations
When anyone can get a gun legally. How can an EX VP son have to buy gun illegally?
It's not like he needs one. I'm sure nobody would attempt to mug him or even breaking into his house
It's not like he needs one. I'm sure nobody would attempt to mug him or even breaking into his house
DIdn't he plead guilty on the taxes case because it was proven?
And on the gun case, isn't quite far fetched that he himself recognized that he was clean since 2019 (meaning that he used drugs before 2019) that he was using in 2018 when he lied during the purchase of a gun? and his defense is that he was using before and after but not during?
I am sorry, yes, he was used for political reasons and they digged all the dirt as they could to hurt Biden. And he was condemned for crimes that probably a high profile would never be condemned if would not be for that reason. But if he was guilty, he was. Period. Pardon him is disgusting.
Blue collar people or indeed any other voter have already voted. Trump will now do whatever he want to benefit himself. He won't even have to show restrains to try to get elected again. Hunter Biden's pardon makes zero difference.
So you leap to Biden giving a pardon to murder because he is old and has a wife, and you have met an old man with a wife before? Ok then.
What many people suggested is that Biden's actions were largely determined by electoral considerations. That would imply that, once electoral considerations were no longer on the table, you'd see some change. That hasn't happened, because that explanation was always an excuse.
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Many people suggested that Harris would moderate the US position to some degree if elected. Nobody suggested that Biden would before Trump took office, in the event that Harris didn't win.
Jeez, I wonder why many people have a hard time believing the Dems that they stand for the rule of law.
So……it’s a political witch hunt by the deep state?
That’s not a response to what he said. Nobody said what you initially posted. Lots of people did say that the dems were really in a difficult position. That they simply couldn’t restrain Israel for electoral reasons. That if it weren’t in play, Biden would have been able to do more.
This was and is obvious rubbish.