The Argument for Giggs as our Next Manager

[Chesterlestreet]

He's already the assistant manager, there is no higher role to go into. I agree with @Chesterlestreet a few pages ago, you aren't going to get him out of that assistant role without moving him out of the club and virtually completely shutting any window he has of getting the managerial job. Simply occupying that position he'd be absolutely insane to go out and 'get experience'. He either goes from there to the managerial role or goes off on his own merry way never to return in my opinion.

Yep, this.

I'm not advocating this as the most sensible solution for us, by the way. I'm only saying that for Giggs this is the only plausible route.

Either we gamble on him directly - or we send him on his merry way, as you say.

 

[Green_Red]

I remember seeing an Evra interview when he was asked who was the most competitive and he said Giggs. That to see how much losing a training match meant to him you would think he never won anything. I think he would give everything to the club. He at least deserves a chance.

 

[SirFergie]

Yep, this.

I'm not advocating this as the most sensible solution for us, by the way. I'm only saying that for Giggs this is the only plausible route.

Either we gamble on him directly - or we send him on his merry way, as you say.

Which I can't see us doing especially after the fact Woodward and subsequently LvG wanted him on the backroom staff in the first place.

It's clear what Woodward wants after LvG leaves, whenever that may be.

 

[mubarak]

Earning your stripes at a lower club doesn't automatically mean he'll be better at the job. (Moyes)

The fans who were prepared to give Moyes time after finishing 7th (there were some), and LVG time after finishing 4th, wouldn't let Giggsy live if he finished outside the top 3 in his first season.

 

[mubarak]

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/manchester-...-gaal-expects-ryan-giggs-next-man-united-boss
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Manchester United manager Louis van Gaal has confirmed that he expects Ryan Giggs to succeed him when he steps down as Old Trafford chief.

Giggs has been assistant to Van Gaal since the 63-year-old Dutchman took over as United boss last summer and while the Welshman has never managed any club on a full-time basis, it seems as if a succession plan has been put into place by the club's hierarchy.

Giggs was United's caretaker manager for the final games of last season following the sacking of David Moyes, yet it appears that Van Gaal wants his assistant to step into his shoes when the time is right.

"I expect that he [Giggs] will be the next manager after I am gone," Van Gaal said. "Now I have the responsibility. He has tasks that he has to perform like the players. What he has to do, for me, he does it very well."

 

[Shamwow]

Actually its you who doesnt appear to understand this "romance" thing.

Those of us who watched utd during those years when we won bugger all remember quite clearly how good Coppell was, how hard he worked, how he did his best all the time, how he became one of Englands key players and how he was one of the players that we fans could rely on week in week out. He ended up having a bunch of injury issues towards the end. He didnt win a bunch of trophies because he simply didnt get to play under the best manager of all time. Utd fans from that era remember just how important Coppell was to us. It was a major deal for us as fans when we won the FA Cup in 1977 and stopped Liverpool winning the treble. Coppell had a big game that day. Tons of romance there for us fans of that era.
BTW Coppell was a fecking good player. He holds the record for the most consecutive appearances for an outfield Manchester United player – 207 from 1977 to 1981 – which still stands to this day.
You need to go think about what the romantic thing really is.

So you're saying Steve Coppell was/is just as much of a legend as Giggs?

I should also add for the non-romance side of things that Coppell was already at Palace when Fergie was appointed, was only 30 years old and it doesn't really matter who he did it under but he didn't win nearly as much as Giggs and that counts for something.

 

[Sir A1ex]

If anything, I would rather see him appointed at United without having gone and been at other clubs for x amount of years

I agree with this.

In fact I would go further and say that any attempt to get him to "go and earn his stripes" at a small club would pretty much guarantee him never returning as manager.

In today's footballing landscape, no manager, however talented, will do anything more than OK at 90% of clubs. You just can't win anything with Sunderland or Watford.
Or more accurately, if you somehow do win the league or FA cup, everybody knows that it is essentially a fluke, and pays it little attention in terms of your management career - I don't see people here clamouring for Martinez, Redknapp, Laudrup, McLeish or McClaren to be our next manager on the basis of their cup wins. And rightly so.

As the OP pointed out, Moyes taking Everton into Europe is about as good as it gets, and a fat lot of use he was. What exactly would Giggs have to achieve at a small club to qualify for the United job?

 

[GBBQ]

Earning your stripes at a lower club doesn't automatically mean he'll be better at the job. (Moyes)

The fans who were prepared to give Moyes time after finishing 7th (there were some), and LVG time after finishing 4th, wouldn't let Giggsy live if he finished outside the top 3 in his first season.

it could well be counter productive. Reading Roy Keane's autobiography and his disbelief at how lax the attitudes were at clubs that were middle of the road probably confirmed whatw e all guessed, the lower down the leagues you go, the elss professional they tend to be. You need to run a tight ship with all players focused in the same direction and if your team is full fo journeymen you're not going to get that.

Very few clubs worldwide are comparible to United in terms of history, expectations, how its run, what money can be spent so its hard to see where Giggs could work that would put him in good stead for the role.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I think Ryan Giggs would actually be a very astute appointment.

He is attune to what the fans want. His style would be largely influenced by Sir Alex and the "Manchester United way". He prefers the Neville-coined "champagne football". He would command respect & fans would be behind him if he fell out with a player. He reads the game brilliantly.

 

[Stack]

So you're saying Steve Coppell was/is just as much of a legend as Giggs?

I should also add for the non-romance side of things that Coppell was already at Palace when Fergie was appointed, was only 30 years old and it doesn't really matter who he did it under but he didn't win nearly as much as Giggs and that counts for something.

Where the feck did I say that???

I am objecting to your belittling of players such as Steve Coppell. You clearly have absolutely no clue as to what the word romance means relative to the club and its players.

 

[acnumber9]

Our current manager didn't prove himself anywhere before being given the biggest job in Holland either.

 

[Shamwow]

Where the feck did I say that???

I am objecting to your belittling of players such as Steve Coppell. You clearly have absolutely no clue as to what the word romance means relative to the club and its players.

It's not really belittling, nothing I said there was untrue. If you agree that he wasn't as much of a club legend as Giggs then you're basically agreeing with me.

 

[RedRonaldo]

If Van Gaal recommend Giggs to be our next manager after his reign then that will be good enough for me. Afterall he "made" Mourinho and Guardiola, he knows what makes a good manager more than anyone else I believe.

 

[SirFergie]

Our current manager didn't prove himself anywhere before being given the biggest job in Holland either.

And he was also assistant 3 years before that...remind you of anyone?

 

[Rory 7]

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/manchester-...-gaal-expects-ryan-giggs-next-man-united-boss
-----
Manchester United manager Louis van Gaal has confirmed that he expects Ryan Giggs to succeed him when he steps down as Old Trafford chief.

Giggs has been assistant to Van Gaal since the 63-year-old Dutchman took over as United boss last summer and while the Welshman has never managed any club on a full-time basis, it seems as if a succession plan has been put into place by the club's hierarchy.

Giggs was United's caretaker manager for the final games of last season following the sacking of David Moyes, yet it appears that Van Gaal wants his assistant to step into his shoes when the time is right.

"I expect that he [Giggs] will be the next manager after I am gone," Van Gaal said. "Now I have the responsibility. He has tasks that he has to perform like the players. What he has to do, for me, he does it very well."

Why the hell didn't we have a succession plan in place for when Fergie was retiring?

 

[Adebesi]

Lack of Experience" & Similar Arguments - "send him out and let him earn his stripes at another club first".
The most common argument against Giggs is his lack of managerial experience. The thing is however, managing Manchester United is not like managing some mid table club. Ego and arrogance aside, we all saw what happened when a Premier League stalwart in David Moyes made the step from Everton (a decent club themselves) to United - he was completely out of his depth. With this in mind, why is there this assumption that Giggs needs to go and manage an Everton, and that doing so will somehow qualify him to manage United?

What Giggs does have at the moment however, is a very strong United pedigree. He has been at the club since he was a boy, he knows the club and how it operates like the back of his hand. This to me is far more valuable than a few years managing a mid table team, which in reality does not say anything about how well equipped he is to manage United. If anything, I would rather see him appointed at United without having gone and been at other clubs for x amount of years - better to appoint him now while he has the benefit of strong exist relationships with the current staff, players and club itself.

Just one this one: I think this only proves that Everton type experience isnt enough. Sending Giggs out to Everton or Villa or anywhere else is not going to make him a suitable candidate. He would need experience from a bigger club.

I think the problem here is putting the candidate first and trying to work out what he needs to be considered for the job. Its the wrong way around. We should look at the CVs first, for the qualifications we need (i.e. experience at a big club / or at a medium sized club but actually winning things and consistently punching above its weight) and then see who that throws up.

I just find with this debate, people start with the premise that they want Giggs as manager and then work backwards to find a basis for him to do it. Whereas what we need is an open mind about who should be manager and see what names we arrive at. Giggs "knowing the club inside out" has a value in itself which can be weighed up against other candidates' experience or whatever else. Personally I dont put much value in this knowing the club business, it implies we are static and unchanging, or that we want to live in the past. We need forward thinking managers not beholden to what we have done before, willing to consider anything and judge it on its own merits, not do something because "this is United and this is how we do it."

 

[NecssryEvil]

If he gets the job and if he's successful, it would possibly be the greatest story in the club's history....

However, I love the guy and I don't want to see him fail or even run that risk. I also don't want the club to make a Moyes mk II mistake

When the subject comes up I always immediately thought I really want Giggs to be the manager but had this nagging feeling in the back of my head that no, I don't, but couldn't really figure out why. It seems so easy and clear when I read the bold part here, this is exactly what my brain has been trying to get across. Giggs, as a player, for me is on a pedestal with nothing but fond memories of his career. I do not want anything to tarnish that.

Managing a club the size of United is not an easy task and few are up to it. Without any other experiences and lessons learned managing at any level I think maybe the ones who are 100% for him are not listening to that inner voice that is telling them this is not a good idea.

 

[Minimalist]

Just one this one: I think this only proves that Everton type experience isnt enough. Sending Giggs out to Everton or Villa or anywhere else is not going to make him a suitable candidate. He would need experience from a bigger club.

I think the problem here is putting the candidate first and trying to work out what he needs to be considered for the job. Its the wrong way around. We should look at the CVs first, for the qualifications we need (i.e. experience at a big club / or at a medium sized club but actually winning things and consistently punching above its weight) and then see who that throws up.

I just find with this debate, people start with the premise that they want Giggs as manager and then work backwards to find a basis for him to do it. Whereas what we need is an open mind about who should be manager and see what names we arrive at. Giggs "knowing the club inside out" has a value in itself which can be weighed up against other candidates' experience or whatever else. Personally I dont put much value in this knowing the club business, it implies we are static and unchanging, or that we want to live in the past. We need forward thinking managers not beholden to what we have done before, willing to consider anything and judge it on its own merits, not do something because "this is United and this is how we do it."

That's exactly the problem.

I asked the question earlier in the thread (I think): Why do we actually want Ryan Giggs as our manager? What is so great about that?

If we want continuity, why not just get Pep considering he plays very similar football?

 

[bosnian_red]

it could well be counter productive. Reading Roy Keane's autobiography and his disbelief at how lax the attitudes were at clubs that were middle of the road probably confirmed whatw e all guessed, the lower down the leagues you go, the elss professional they tend to be. You need to run a tight ship with all players focused in the same direction and if your team is full fo journeymen you're not going to get that.

Very few clubs worldwide are comparible to United in terms of history, expectations, how its run, what money can be spent so its hard to see where Giggs could work that would put him in good stead for the role.

Agree. Look at the managers who are seen as the top ones around... Which of them earned their stripes so to speak? Pep started off at Barca, Mourinho was first at Benfica apparently, then one season at a different team before taking over Porto, Van Gaal started off at Ajax, Klopp went from player to manager at Mainz and then to Dortmund. Others like Simeone for example weren't particularly successful before taking a big club. Of course some started off at smaller clubs, and proved their worth before going at bigger clubs, but plenty of top managers just kinda burst on the scene and were successful.

 

[Shamwow]

Agree. Look at the managers who are seen as the top ones around... Which of them earned their stripes so to speak? Pep started off at Barca, Mourinho was first at Benfica apparently, then one season at a different team before taking over Porto, Van Gaal started off at Ajax, Klopp went from player to manager at Mainz and then to Dortmund. Others like Simeone for example weren't particularly successful before taking a big club. Of course some started off at smaller clubs, and proved their worth before going at bigger clubs, but plenty of top managers just kinda burst on the scene and were successful.

If I had to guess I'd say about a quarter of the greatest managers of all time took a similar path to what we are suggesting Giggs takes.

 

[snk123]

I'd rather have Solskjaer manage Utd than Giggs.

 

[gooDevil]

It seems set in stone.

 

[gooDevil]

I'd rather have Solskjaer manage Utd than Giggs.

Ole' is definately best managing attacking teams, I think he'd do well.

We don't really know Giggs as a manager, he had a handful and in those he seemed like a Fergie clone.

How much will LVG influence him, I wonder.

 

[Lentwood]

Problem is I have seen loads of interviews with Giggs over the years and he hardly ever has anything interesting or intelligent to say. I just can't imagine him having the nous or the personality to take the role on with any real success. Would be a big mistake for me.

 

[Walrus]

I agree with this.

In fact I would go further and say that any attempt to get him to "go and earn his stripes" at a small club would pretty much guarantee him never returning as manager.

In today's footballing landscape, no manager, however talented, will do anything more than OK at 90% of clubs. You just can't win anything with Sunderland or Watford.
Or more accurately, if you somehow do win the league or FA cup, everybody knows that it is essentially a fluke, and pays it little attention in terms of your management career - I don't see people here clamouring for Martinez, Redknapp, Laudrup, McLeish or McClaren to be our next manager on the basis of their cup wins. And rightly so.

As the OP pointed out, Moyes taking Everton into Europe is about as good as it gets, and a fat lot of use he was. What exactly would Giggs have to achieve at a small club to qualify for the United job?

it could well be counter productive. Reading Roy Keane's autobiography and his disbelief at how lax the attitudes were at clubs that were middle of the road probably confirmed whatw e all guessed, the lower down the leagues you go, the elss professional they tend to be. You need to run a tight ship with all players focused in the same direction and if your team is full fo journeymen you're not going to get that.

Very few clubs worldwide are comparible to United in terms of history, expectations, how its run, what money can be spent so its hard to see where Giggs could work that would put him in good stead for the role.

These two sum up quite well some of what I have been trying to say.

Just one this one: I think this only proves that Everton type experience isnt enough. Sending Giggs out to Everton or Villa or anywhere else is not going to make him a suitable candidate. He would need experience from a bigger club.

I think the problem here is putting the candidate first and trying to work out what he needs to be considered for the job. Its the wrong way around. We should look at the CVs first, for the qualifications we need (i.e. experience at a big club / or at a medium sized club but actually winning things and consistently punching above its weight) and then see who that throws up.

I just find with this debate, people start with the premise that they want Giggs as manager and then work backwards to find a basis for him to do it. Whereas what we need is an open mind about who should be manager and see what names we arrive at. Giggs "knowing the club inside out" has a value in itself which can be weighed up against other candidates' experience or whatever else. Personally I dont put much value in this knowing the club business, it implies we are static and unchanging, or that we want to live in the past. We need forward thinking managers not beholden to what we have done before, willing to consider anything and judge it on its own merits, not do something because "this is United and this is how we do it."

This is a good post with a good counter argument, although I dont feel that the arguments I put forward originally are a case of "working backwards" as you put it.

I agree that when LVG leaves we need to assess the situation, decide what we want and need from our next managerial appointment, and then look at who the best candidates are. For me, post-LVG we should be looking for;

1) Continuity - rather than someone to come in and dismantle what LVG has set up, get someone who will build on it. In my opinion only Giggs and Guardiola (from realistic candidates) fit this criteria.
2) Someone who will be here for the long term (if successful). It made sense to make a short term appointment after SAF, someone to come in and steady the ship, handle the transition and put the groundwork in place for a new team. Post LVG however, I believe the time is right for a long term appointment who can with any luck guide us for 10-20 years (again, assuming they are doing a decent job). There are question marks over pretty much every manager other than Giggs in this regard - ie how long will they stay before they move on?
3) Someone who can command respect from the players - this was one of the biggest problem Moyes had at United, he simply didnt command respect. Obviously, any high calibre manager with a good track record would be fine in this aspect, but as I said in the OP I also think that Giggs as a club legend with an unmatched trophy cabinet, would easily command respect at United.

As I think about it, these to me are probably the three most important unqiue factors for our next appointment, other than obviously "being a decent manager" and that sort of stuff which would expected for any managerial appointment, and are not specific to our situation in any way.

I dont really see "experience" for the sake of experience as being that big a factor in itself. None of these managers have experience of managing at United (technically Giggs did have 4 games in charge though). Whilst you would imagine there are transferable skills from other clubs, I think the United position is quite unique in what is required of the manager, and that experience for the sake of experience is not that big a deal for this appointment. After Fergie, we needed an experienced manager to come in and steady the ship etc by all means, but post-LVG the goalposts for me are different.

 

[RedFish]

We should aim for the very top tier, Ancelotti and the like. Giggs is a bit of a wild card.

 

[Adebesi]

@Walrus you've got 3 criteria there: continuity (of style), longevity and commands respect. Those are the most important factors. You haven't mentioned tactical acumen, attention to detail, work ethic, intelligence, communication skills or anything. All the things that, added together, make a good manager. I don't mean to be pedantic, I'm sure you'll say that is all implied, but I think you've oversimplified. We need someone who is driven by that attention to detail, that work ethic, that tactical insight. Those are the main criteria for me, and the evidence for those things is what you get when looking at experience.

This is the basic problem for me. There is absolutely no evidence that Giggs would actually be any good at the job. He's been at the club ages, yes. He was a great player. But would he actually be a good manager? Keane wasn't, particularly. Robson, Bruce, Hughes, all have been fairly average. I just don't see why we should have faith Giggs would be any better.

Unless people think Keane or Robson would've been vastly better managers if they'd been thrown into the United job to start, rather than having their reputations tarnished by their inability to turn around smaller clubs?

 

[Walrus]

@Adebesi you are right in that I did simplify things a bit, but I do not agree with all of the criteria you have listed.

Take "attention to detail" for example - that was arguably another of Moyes' big failings, that he couldnt see the forest for the trees, so to speak. I actually think that when you are managing such a huge entity as Manchester United, that too much focusing on the smaller details will in practice just distract the manager from the bigger picture at times. For a smaller club you are absolutely right, but I feel that paying too much attention to small details was a trap that Moyes fell in to, whereas SAF was known for delegating large responsibilities to his backroom staff rather than getting bogged down by trying to micromanage.

Tactical acumen is another interesting one. Obviously it is one of those things that most people instantly associate with a successful manager - but lets look at our recent examples again. SAF was known for many things, but I think it is fair to say that he wasnt always a tactical genius, particularly in his latter years. His insistence on 4-4-2, defensive lineups aimed to counter opposition threats rather than maximising our own, and failure to change things up through substitutions until the game was already lost, were all criticisms often thrown at him. And yet the results speak for themselves.
Conversely, at the moment we have LVG - someone who was largely regarded as one of the best tacticians around, and it is the opinion of many that he is overcomplicating things, spending too much time and effort trying to force players into his system etc rather than letting them play their natural game. Obviously time will tell as far as the results go, but you get my drift.

So when it comes to tactics I would say there has to be a balance, and personally I think that is a balance that Giggs will recognise and would achieve thanks to his tutelage under both of the managers I just mentioned.

Other factors such as intelligence and work ethic are a given, I would say, but neither of those are directly related to experience. The biggest area for concern when it comes to Giggs' lack of experience is one that neither of us actually mentioned until now - handling the media. That said, neither Klopp nor Guardiola are used to handling the particulars of the UK press, which has put off more than one manager in the past. Giggs at least has the benefit here of being native to the country, and thus you would think he would know a thing or two about how the UK press operate - not to mention he can always get on the phone with SAF for advice in how to deal with journalists, as a last resort.


In answer to your question would Giggs be any good at the job - I dont know, and nor does anyone else until we see how he does first hand. However what I do think is that he would be a better manager of Manchester United than he would a manager of Cardiff, West Ham or Everton. I agree entirely with the comments from some other posters in this thread that if Giggs is going to manage United, it should be after LVG, not 10 years down the line.

 

[Adebesi]

SAF was famous for his attention to detail. As is Mourinho. Not sure why you're linking that to micromanagement, which is something else again.

 

[Jazz]

Problem is I have seen loads of interviews with Giggs over the years and he hardly ever has anything interesting or intelligent to say. I just can't imagine him having the nous or the personality to take the role on with any real success. Would be a big mistake for me.

This exactly.

I think we might also be getting mixed up with Giggs the player and 'Giggs the wanna be manager'. As a player, very few can compare, but managing United calls for completely different qualities and a certain personality that unfortunately Giggs has never exhibited off the pitch.

I remember the documentary about him being the interim manager - there was a small mention in there about him turning up for training after he was put in charge. His mindset was getting ready to train with all the players as a 'player'. It was Nicky Butt who had to point out to him that maybe it would be better if he 'observed' and not basically act like a player that day (obviously not said in those exact words). Giggs then said Nicky was absolutely right etc etc. But what struck me about that was to me it would be the most natural thing if I'm the manager to attend to the players and organise them and get them focused on the next match - not think about playing myself when I'm suppose to be managing them. I thought to myself, but Giggs you should know that already - you shouldn't need Butt or anyone else to tell you something that should be clear as day if you are managing. I know it's a small thing - but imo it speaks volumes about his way of thinking.

Sadly, I just don't think he has the instincts to be a manager (of any team), as great a player as he was.

 

[Walrus]

SAF was famous for his attention to detail. As is Mourinho. Not sure why you're linking that to micromanagement, which is something else again.

I would say the two are pretty similar. Again SAF was also famous for delegating a lot of the day to day tasks - in his final few years he wasnt even involved in the training that much, how exactly does that constitute attention to detail?

Regarding "earning his stripes" the above is the sort of thing that has been mentioned though about Giggs (or anyone else) picking up 'bad habits' when managing a smaller club. There was another post pretty recently talking about the lack of professionalism at smaller clubs, and I would couple that with the different responsibilities of the manager. This is [one of the reasons] why I would rather see Giggs step straight into the United job than going elsewhere first.

 

[RedorDead21]

I would say the two are pretty similar. Again SAF was also famous for delegating a lot of the day to day tasks - in his final few years he wasnt even involved in the training that much, how exactly does that constitute attention to detail?

Regarding "earning his stripes" the above is the sort of thing that has been mentioned though about Giggs (or anyone else) picking up 'bad habits' when managing a smaller club. There was another post pretty recently talking about the lack of professionalism at smaller clubs, and I would couple that with the different responsibilities of the manager. This is [one of the reasons] why I would rather see Giggs step straight into the United job than going elsewhere first.

In his final few years? Mark Hughes said they were afraid of kicking the ball against his office window in training as he'd appear and berate them!. He took the decision not to coach far earlier!

 

[Adebesi]

I would say the two are pretty similar. Again SAF was also famous for delegating a lot of the day to day tasks - in his final few years he wasnt even involved in the training that much, how exactly does that constitute attention to detail?

I really think they are wholly, 100% separate. A CEO can have attention to detail, it doesn't mean he does all the jobs in his company himself. It means he closely monitors what his subordinates are doing. Even if he let's them get on with the things he delegates, he can pay attention to the detail of what he is engaged in himself.

Do you think for a second that SAF didn't know what went on in the training ground, even if he wasn't there?

When he arrived he overhauled diet, training, he monitored the social lives of his players etc etc. Attention to detail.

 

[Rich_H_1989]

See I agree with a previous poster who said that sending Giggs out to another club may not work at all. And just because Giggs may not be a success elsewhere doesn't mean he wouldn't be a success with us.

The resources and set up we have can not be rivalled many places. Giggs would have access to a lot of money, a lot of top coaches and some great facilities. That all could help him to be a success. Plus I'm sure he'd have Fergie on speed dial.

We've already seen that taking a manager who's performed almost wonders for another club doesn't mean it'll work at united. But that's not to say it wouldn't be a success in the future.

Wow the more I post on this topic the more I settle down on this fence. The splinters don't even bother me that much now.

The big thing Giggs has going for him is that he understands the size of the club. So he's not going to be taking the players for a walk down a public beach in Australia.

There's no guarantee any manager would be a success. The only manager I think would be is Mourinho and I do not want that man at our club.

Can we clone Fergie and then make him maybe 10 years younger? Surely the club need to set the R&D department to work on that!

What's for sure is Giggs isn't going to sit as assistant forever. He knows LVG has two years left and he's got to be thinking that his time is next or never. If the team is set up the way LVG wants by then with a few more quality players then I almost think it's got to be done... Am I starting to come down from the fence...

 

[Adebesi]

Other factors such as intelligence and work ethic are a given, I would say, but neither of those are directly related to experience. The biggest area for concern when it comes to Giggs' lack of experience is one that neither of us actually mentioned until now - handling the media.

I actually had the media thing in mind when I said good communication skills, tho communicating with the players is even more important.

On experience, I wasn't saying you get intelligence or work ethic from experience. I was saying when a manager has experience, it is easier to ascertain whether he has those qualities, in the context of management at least, from looking at his time at other clubs.

 

[RedorDead21]

See I agree with a previous poster who said that sending Giggs out to another club may not work at all. And just because Giggs may not be a success elsewhere doesn't mean he wouldn't be a success with us.

The resources and set up we have can not be rivalled many places. Giggs would have access to a lot of money, a lot of top coaches and some great facilities. That all could help him to be a success. Plus I'm sure he'd have Fergie on speed dial.

We've already seen that taking a manager who's performed almost wonders for another club doesn't mean it'll work at united. But that's not to say it wouldn't be a success in the future.

Wow the more I post on this topic the more I settle down on this fence. The splinters don't even bother me that much now.

The big thing Giggs has going for him is that he understands the size of the club. So he's not going to be taking the players for a walk down a public beach in Australia.

There's no guarantee any manager would be a success. The only manager I think would be is Mourinho and I do not want that man at our club.

Can we clone Fergie and then make him maybe 10 years younger? Surely the club need to set the R&D department to work on that!

What's for sure is Giggs isn't going to sit as assistant forever. He knows LVG has two years left and he's got to be thinking that his time is next or never. If the team is set up the way LVG wants by then with a few more quality players then I almost think it's got to be done... Am I starting to come down from the fence...

This. Make giggs ply his trade through the ranks...like Moyes did brilliantly really in comparison to the other former players of Man United. The old dog for the hard road and the puppy for the meadow I think they used to say. For me, Giggs is learning from one of the best, after a lifetime under the best. To cast him aside because "experience" is lacking is complete dogshit.

 

[Jazz]

The important considerations are this:

1) Does he have great communication skills? (got to be great - being good is not enough)
2) Can he motivate a player to go beyond what he's capable of? Or, can he get the best out of a player that doesn't have the same talent that he himself had as a player?
3) If he is not very good at some technical aspects, is he clever enough to realise and accept that he would need to surround himself with others that are successful at this? Or would he opt to surround himself with his friends - even if off the pitch they don't have the experience or mindset for the job?

These are things that bother me about Giggs. I don't have faith that he's got good communication or motivational skills, nor do I think he's clever/humble enough to know you need to surround yourself with those that know more about certain things that you don't have enough knowledge or experience of.

You may say he knows the club inside out - but knowing about something doesn't mean you'll automatically know how to manage it.

I hope the United hierarchy are clinical in their thinking about this. You have to look at does this person have the requisite qualities and is he innovative?
Using emotion to make a decision like this is not the way to go.

 

[WeePat]

Earning your stripes at a lower club doesn't automatically mean he'll be better at the job. (Moyes).

I would rephrase the sentence slightly to "doesn't automatically mean he'll be ready for an elite club with elite expectations", which is what I think you meant and I would agree with that, 100%.

EDIT: On reflection, you probably meant being our manager with 'better at the job' rather than being a decent manager in general which is how I took it initially. Apologies.

 

[Rich_H_1989]

The important considerations are this:

1) Does he have great communication skills? (got to be great - being good is not enough)
2) Can he motivate a player to go beyond what he's capable of? Or, can he get the best out of a player that doesn't have the same talent that he himself had as a player?
3) If he is not very good at some technical aspects, is he clever enough to realise and accept that he would need to surround himself with others that are successful at this? Or would he opt to surround himself with his friends - even if off the pitch they don't have the experience or mindset for the job?

These are things that bother me about Giggs. I don't have faith that he's got good communication or motivational skills, nor do I think he's clever/humble enough to know you need to surround yourself with those that know more about certain things that you don't have enough knowledge or experience of.

You may say he knows the club inside out - but knowing about something doesn't mean you'll automatically know how to manage it.

I hope the United hierarchy are clinical in their thinking about this. You have to look at does this person have the requisite qualities and is he innovative?
Using emotion to make a decision like this is not the way to go.

OK... Here are my thoughts:

1) Giggs was club captain so I do think he's a great communicator. I also think his legend status at the club means he demands respect from players.
2) Honestly? Don't know... I think he'd have mixed results on this one too be honest. I think some players would be inspired by him to do better whilst others may not.
3) Yes I think he's got the intelligence to surround himself with the right people and not his mates. He may bring in Gary Neville and Scholes but if he still has a lot of other experience around him I think that's OK? Neville is doing a good job with England I think? And he's shown his football knowledge and understanding with Sky Sports.

 

[Jazz]

OK... Here are my thoughts:

1) Giggs was club captain so I do think he's a great communicator. I also think his legend status at the club means he demands respect from players.
2) Honestly? Don't know... I think he'd have mixed results on this one too be honest. I think some players would be inspired by him to do better whilst others may not.
3) Yes I think he's got the intelligence to surround himself with the right people and not his mates. He may bring in Gary Neville and Scholes but if he still has a lot of other experience around him I think that's OK? Neville is doing a good job with England I think? And he's shown his football knowledge and understanding with Sky Sports.

At No.3 - Nothing against Neville and Scholes, but I think they are too one dimensional in the way they think. They've only known one way of doing things and they don't seem to want to embrace any thing else. The game has evolved (like all other sports will at one time or the other), and you need to recognise that and go with it. It doesn't mean losing your identity - it just means you need to add another layer to your game in order to stay competitive - not only domestically, but in Europe.

You see how our national team seems to be stagnating - probably because we refuse to let go of the notion that football needs to be played in one way. This is what I don't want for United - we need to move on a bit. And I don't think Neville or Scholes can offer that.