If the club really had balls, they wouldn't have sacked Moyes.
The Argument for Giggs as our Next Manager
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Seriously? Are you seriously asking that in comparison with Giggs? You know, the guy thats never, ever, managed a football club in his life. The only reason people are trying to pretend like this would be a good idea is because of who he is, and the false romantic BS that would surround his appointment.
He's absolutely no more qualified then the likes of Phelen, Meulensteen, Mcclaren or Queiroz to be United manager. And can you imagine the outrage if any of those guys got the job? Heck, if we're going down the 'hire a United legend' then even the likes of Bruce and Hughes are more suited to the role.
Its a stupid decision based on nothing but faux romanticism. And in today's footballing world, that gets you absolutely nowhere. Just ask Liverpool.
Can't see any white text. Do you wish that Moyes wouldn't have been sacked?
If the club really had balls, they would've gone over SAF's head and vetoed his recommendation of hiring Moyes.
Why do you feel the need to exaggerate? Who said anything about sacking managers every other season without due deliberation? I also fail to fathom how wanting silverware, and craving success can be equated to being like Real Madrid. Get a world-class manager in, give him the time to achieve the desired levels of success, instead of taking punt on an inexperienced quantity, and prematurely anoint him to the throne even while the current manager is in place. It's really not not hard to understand.
Yes, let's commend them for taking the infinitely more risk-fraught route, than doing the sensible thing. That's applause worthy indeed. What's that? Cut from the same cloth? All the better :
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ar...oth-Manchester-Uniteds-Sir-Alex-Ferguson.html
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2013-05-09/moyes-cut-from-same-cloth-as-predecessors/
Let's follow the archaic 'family' recipe, rinse and repeat. Until we realize that football is moving on, and the club needs to be pragmatic when it comes to major decisions.
Another buzzword about 'trying again'. Are we morphing into Scousers, blinded by infinite optimism, and romanticism? I have put neither of them on a pedestal. They have earned the right to be there through years of success. You can give an inexperienced manager (at the top level), the best player in the world, and he still wouldn't have overwhelming success. Tata Martno-Messi, Weisweiler-Cruyff, Quieroz-Zidane.. Need I go on? And what was that about Ronaldo being the maker of Fergie? Surely but surely, you must be having a laugh?
Was waiting until the mythical soul came up, and right on cue. And yes, let's perpetually take massive risks everytime the club gets back on its feet, just to preserve some discrete notions about the United way. That comes across as a sound, and rational plan.
PS : There was no United Way, or soul to speak of. There was the Matt Busby Way, and The Alex Ferguson Way. Both of those concepts went out the window when those two retired from their managerial duties.
Love reading @Invictus posts
No. I think he showed he was out of his depth in the first season and had to go for not qualifying for Europe. BUT that doesn't mean he could not have succeeded with his own team rather than one that clearly did not want to play for him. I think many players are as much to blame for their drop in standards.
Agree with what another poster said about the appointment. He was the wrong man, though it perhaps was not completely easy to call that at the time.
LVG says Giggs will be next manager
Not sure if that's referring to just this season (Pereira) or permanently, hopefully the former.
A poor attempt.
The most decorative player, most caps and super star for Manchester United retires and a few years later comes back to manage the club, breaking all Fergie's records and trophy tally over his unbelievable 40 year stint as manager!
What a story that would be. Like the first page says ''My heart says yes, but my brain says no''
What a story that would be. Like the first page says ''My heart says yes, but my brain says no''
I wasn't exaggerating anything, that is what we would become. A team who uses up and spits out managers the second they become unsuccessfull. Its obvious you're hell bent on ensuring your point is the right one, and you argue very well, but i find it a shame there isn't anything romantic in you that's attracted to the notion of what having Giggs as manager could bring.
Come on, you didn't really mean to quote me that did you?
Oh yes, bet you were
. Can see you sitting there scripting away the future posts. Fact is it's obviously being talked about because its true. Those two managers created a Dynasty at this club that have now become tradition. Whilst they didnt carry on directly from one another, the club will now at any possible chance attempt to continue in this way. If you want us to be an elite club run in the same boring way as the rest of europes top teams then thats your decision. Fact is the clubs hierarchy disagrees with you right now and I'm thankful for it. I would much rather us try to create another long term tenure which runs from the foundations of the club right through to the top. Where players of old DO have a say and an influence on how this club moves forward, and not only that but doing it succesfully and effectively dominating domestically for a prolonged period of time. That's a massive reason as to why our club has been so enveid by everyone, certainly in the UK. That we breed our own success.Like i say, you want to win at all costs. Even by sucking the club dry of its traditions, even if it was just two people in our history with a vision for a football club. They set a precedent, and im all for the club trying to do it again. If it doesn't work then so be it, take the route to stabilise the club again with a proven manager. As long as this club is prepared to spend the money we will always have the resources to win the league. It's never far away in my opinion.
Fixed.
That twat named Moyes can feck off for as long as his coaching career is concerned.
Yes you were, that is so not what we will become. Look at the Bayern Munich. Do they go around handing managerial jobs to Effenberg, Ballack, Kahn and Lizarazu? Sure, they involve certain ex-players in administrative roles, but not in the highest head coaching role. They tried with Klinsmann, who was inexperienced in that level of club football and learnt their lesson, went on from Van Gaal, to Heyneckes, to Guardiola - each one arguably the best available manager at the moment in time. I'm not hell bent on proving a point - if you care to examine some of the posts from this thread or elsewhere, you might realize than I'm not averse to accepting when I'm in the wrong, but you must make a firm, well reasoned case. Also, romance should have little to do with such major decisions, and with so much at stake.
Yes, as a matter of fact I did mean to quote you on that. People like to throw platitudes around, even though they have very little tangible effects in the end.
Oh yes, bet you were
Nice green smiley. Hmm, I would like to bring up an analogy here. Eastman Kodak used to be the biggest imaging company in the world, and one of the biggest brands in the world. But despite the fact that Steven Sasson invented the digital camera in 1975, they were slow to react to the changing scenery while Canon and Sony breezed past them. They got so caught up in the blind faith based romance of their film roots, that they chose to bypass the advent of digital imagery. In 2004, Kodak was delisted on the Dow Jones Index, had to strip their assets, and declared bankruptcy in 2012. This for a company that at one point accounted for more than 60% of the world's film market. Moral of the story - adapt to the times instead of forcing the issue with a dated ideology, only to end up falling behind.
Folks talk about dynasties and whatnot, but more often than not dynasties perish when the emperor passes on. You can be thankful all you want, and crave another long tenure, but what needs to be realized is that Fergie's long tenure wasn't by initial design. It was a byproduct of his success. He didn't come into United to force a romantic ideology, he created his own, rather than leaning on someone else's. If a manager from the outside joins United, has success, plants his roots, stays for the long haul, is it any worse than appointing an ex-player? Because that's exactly what Sir Matt (ex-City player), and Fergie (no prior connection to United) did.
Nah, I want the club to appoint the best manager available. That doesn't equal sucking the club dry of its traditions. As I've stated repeatedly, neither Sir Matt, nor Fergie has prior associations with United as players. They brought through their own tradition, and set the foundations of the romance you harp on. As for - If it doesn't work then so be it, take the route to stabilize the club again with a proven manager. That's sounds like a brilliant way to go about things :
Step 1. Appoint proven manager to stabilize the club. Step 2. After his departure, don't appoint the best candidate - someone who is experienced in terms of contending for silverware, instead yearn for romance, and go for an inexperienced choice. Step 3. Plan blows up in the face? No problem, we have infinite amounts of money and time. Step 4. Back to step 1.
Net result = zeru tituli.
Also, just to re-emphasize the overarching point that lets lost in the midst of walls of text, decisions muddled by a sense of romance are generally removed from a place of well founded reason. Which is why arguments predicated largely on 'soul', and other such tangential qualities are void of logic more often than not.
I am worried about this as well. Especially if we were to appoint Giggs after LVG. I'm on record saying that I don't believe we'll win anything under LVG, but I'd love to be wrong.
Appointing Giggs would be an even bigger mistake than the Moyes appointment for me. There is just too many negatives and risks. The club can't afford another season similar to 2013-2014 under Moyes and I fear we'd go through that with Giggs at the helm.
Could all be politics too
I mean, he may be saying these things to keep Giggs sweet. After all, can't be too good for Giggs' best mates coming out having a pop at LvG's style in the media
Especially after the way they all bailed in together once Moyes was got rid off
If he does get the job, I hope when Scholes is on the training ground he has better tactical views other than his "get the ball to the wing and get it to Rooney" insight that he offers on BT
I mean, he may be saying these things to keep Giggs sweet. After all, can't be too good for Giggs' best mates coming out having a pop at LvG's style in the media
Especially after the way they all bailed in together once Moyes was got rid off
If he does get the job, I hope when Scholes is on the training ground he has better tactical views other than his "get the ball to the wing and get it to Rooney" insight that he offers on BT
I don't really get this argument. Yeah, we were extremely lucky to have Fergie since he was an incredibly successful long-term manager, but we need to accept the fact that it's extremely unlikely we'll find someone who stays for a very, very long period of time again.
What we can hope for is that we're a club who retains some semblance of stability, in that we're not going through a manager every season, and that we have managers who can hopefully stay for a decent period of time. That's a reasonable expectation. For example, we know LVG probably won't be at the club for too long. Unless our season is a disaster, it's likely he'll maybe be here until about 2017/2018. After that, he'll likely be replaced by a big name: perhaps Guardiola or Klopp, for example. They'll likely be here for a while if they do well, but there's a strong chance they'd only stay around for 4 or 5 years. Again, that's fine. It's how football works. We can have a new manager every so often without becoming Chelsea or Real Madrid. Perhaps we'll find one that stays for 10 years. We may end up with one who's a disaster and has to be sacked after one. It happens.
The idea of Giggs as manager may be a romantic one, but it's not all that much more romantic than, say, Scholes or Neville as manager. If you're fine with either of those two being appointed as manager despite no managerial experience, then fine, that's your opinion. But if not, I'd struggle to see why it's fine for Giggs to be manager, when he's got no managerial experience and fairly limited coaching experience.
If the club see fit to appoint Giggs because they feel he's shown a lot as a coach which demonstrates he'll make a top manager, then I'll tentatively back them, and I'll ardently hope Giggs succeeds since he's an absolute legend within the club. But I'm quite tentative, and a lot of others are, after Moyes' tenure since it was one which arguably had some romantic notions of Moyes being the pefect successor to Fergie, yet ended up being one of the worst managerial appointments in footballing memory.
The quotes from LVG which was taken from a meeting with a few of the season ticket holders are accurate. I do think it will end up being Giggs who takes over from LVG. He also confirmed that Wilson will go on loan.
This has been generally one of the more reasonably argued and interestingly debate threads on the caf that i have seen. Now I am even more confused... bastards.
If true, then it likely means the plan all along was to handover the team to Giggs after LVG's tenure. Wonder what was exactly promised and when. Seems incredibly short-sighted on a myriad of issues. I refuse (well hoping mostly) to believe the club didn't learn its lesson after Moyes, and we're that stupid.
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I want Giggs as our next manager. Think he'll be great for us if he gets the right back ground team behind him. Wouldn't mind Quieroz as his assistant.
Its inevitable that he gets it, otherwise a man who's made so much money from football would not be hanging around as an assistant manager making 250k/yr unless he knows he'll get the job sooner than later. He's an ambitious person, not bound to a philosophy and he's practical enough with a degree of affection for the club.
I think he might even succeed and grow into it. Even Tim Sherwood did decently well by totally uncomplicating things at Spurs and the beauty of simplicity is that there is nothing to be found out. Giggs with the amount of money we spend on a yearly basis would do very well with some luck in the transfer window.
I think he might even succeed and grow into it. Even Tim Sherwood did decently well by totally uncomplicating things at Spurs and the beauty of simplicity is that there is nothing to be found out. Giggs with the amount of money we spend on a yearly basis would do very well with some luck in the transfer window.
Well, if the plan is to let Giggs take over after LVG, then presumably that won't happen until the latter's contract expires. At that point Giggs will have four full seasons under his belt as an assistant manager - and he will have been groomed for the job during most of that time too.
Doesn't make it much less of a gamble,. arguably, but it does put him in a very different position from Scholes or Neville. We wouldn't simply be handing the reins to a random Class of 92 player, it would be slightly less shambolic.
Rooney is better than Rivaldo, Robben, Ribery and Muller. I knew it.
I agree that you're thinking with a brain on the situation and your points are well argued (but I also think he's right in you're not really allowing Giggs an inch in which I think he at minimum at least deserves as he is poised in the AM role to succeed just by succession planning of his appointment alone), this is a really bad analogy though. Especially using Kodak. The foundations of their business model were built on the "Razorblade" strategy, although they expanded into other areas, their models were fairly dependant on utilizing that strategy where they could in their expanded ventures. Their markets didn't really leave them behind, their market attack strategies really did in the end. I don't think that relates at all to United or their business model, especially when you factor in the lack of success and the revenue streams that continue to sky rocket. I don't really think trophies won and winning culture is really that much of a backbone of what we do. Commercially we're an advertising juggernaut already. Personally I think we're unlikely to see a landscape change that will really effect our business model. Obviously if we wring every last drop of it out over an extended period of time then for sure. I can completely agree that we need to be wary of fading into obscurity and simply saying "nah it won't happen to us mate we're United!" is not going to cut it.
I guess if you're angling down the line of thinking that Antonio Perez is Van Gaal in this situation? Then it actually makes an interesting (damning) correlation. But I am not really sure that is the angle you're going for.
Plus this is wildly off topic. Thought I'd make the comments anyway.
I guess if you're angling down the line of thinking that Antonio Perez is Van Gaal in this situation? Then it actually makes an interesting (damning) correlation. But I am not really sure that is the angle you're going for.
Plus this is wildly off topic. Thought I'd make the comments anyway.
I'd agree with you on the politics angle. Not the first time van Gaal has said that he expects Giggs to be his successor. Giggs and Rooney are the two who I think van Gaal has to keep onside.Could all be politics too
I mean, he may be saying these things to keep Giggs sweet. After all, can't be too good for Giggs' best mates coming out having a pop at LvG's style in the media
Especially after the way they all bailed in together once Moyes was got rid off
If he does get the job, I hope when Scholes is on the training ground he has better tactical views other than his "get the ball to the wing and get it to Rooney" insight that he offers on BT
So true.
I guess so.Could all be politics too
I mean, he may be saying these things to keep Giggs sweet. After all, can't be too good for Giggs' best mates coming out having a pop at LvG's style in the media
Especially after the way they all bailed in together once Moyes was got rid off
If he does get the job, I hope when Scholes is on the training ground he has better tactical views other than his "get the ball to the wing and get it to Rooney" insight that he offers on BT
In the end, I doubt that LVG will have as a big say as Fergie last time, in choosing the manager. Woodward will most likely make the decision, and a man as succesful as him cannot be that romanticaly insane to put Giggs in charge.
Fantastic post as always.
I wasn't exaggerating anything, that is what we would become. A team who uses up and spits out managers the second they become unsuccessfull. Its obvious you're hell bent on ensuring your point is the right one, and you argue very well, but i find it a shame there isn't anything romantic in you that's attracted to the notion of what having Giggs as manager could bring.
Come on, you didn't really mean to quote me that did you?
Oh yes, bet you were
Like i say, you want to win at all costs. Even by sucking the club dry of its traditions, even if it was just two people in our history with a vision for a football club. They set a precedent, and im all for the club trying to do it again. If it doesn't work then so be it, take the route to stabilise the club again with a proven manager. As long as this club is prepared to spend the money we will always have the resources to win the league. It's never far away in my opinion.
Do you think Bayern have been sucked dry of it's traditions?
Surprised this has not gotten any more press yet. LvG basically confirming that Giggs will take over after him.
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It's not really though, is it. Two of them are players who have gone on to have careers in sports media and punditry, the other is a man who has managed United as a caretaker manager already and has been an assistant manager for what will be three seasons at that club, being under the stewardship of one of the most experienced and successful managers in the world. He deserves a chance is all im saying.
Absolutely love Giggsy and I think the thought of having to sack him if it doesn't go well is incredibly scary and one I don't really want United to face in the next few years
Really mixed on it, would love to see it and would not question it if we gave it to him but also fully understand the argument for him needing experience elsewhere and do agree but I think United is built on stuff like this, it's a great story and the fan in me wants it more than anything.
So it's happening. I hope to feck he absorbs every bit of knowledge he can from van Gaal and has done the same during sir Alex's time here. 2 of the best people one can get to learn from. Very different styles of coaching too so he's getting great exposure.
I hope it works. It will be a long time before we fix it if it doesn't and it'll be an absolute mess.
I hope it works. It will be a long time before we fix it if it doesn't and it'll be an absolute mess.
I'm neither sold on the idea or completely against it.
What does concern me though is the amount of negativity and pessimism the prospect of Giggs in charge seems to create amongst a lot of fans. I just hope that if it were to happen, they would put the discontent aside and get behind one of our own.
What does concern me though is the amount of negativity and pessimism the prospect of Giggs in charge seems to create amongst a lot of fans. I just hope that if it were to happen, they would put the discontent aside and get behind one of our own.
So it's settled then. Giggs it is!
I'd be extremely happy with Giggs as manager. He's now served under Fergie and LVG so he should have great tactical knowledge plus he will definitely get us playing attacking football.
He's a United legend and will instantly have the respect of the players.
He's a United legend and will instantly have the respect of the players.
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